BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[Zebedee23]

Any idea when in April??

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[BAYHQ]

Any idea when in April??

No date has been set. Should be towards the very end of April

[Munti]

Well that's great news for BitBay!

But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.

What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets.

Syscoin has had a decentralized market since  Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace

To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood.

Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe.

The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion.
From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning.
Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it.  

Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way.

The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to.

So you're saying that decentralization is about being able to choose who the middle man should be. Or, against your recommendation, choosing not to transact safely.  Well, I beg to differ.  Really nothing more to say about that.

your talking about TRUST and not CENTRALIZATION.. DDE is trustless, syscoin is decentralized... syscoin's escrow is trustful through a 2 of 3 multisig, bitbays is trustless.. both have pro's and con's.

Either way its a healthy debate. We don't have the money to market it, you are right. And maybe we never will
but somebody had to make DDE based markets. Think of it this way, Napster was a P2P music sharing platform
and it was the "first" and eventually failed. BUT Napster paved the way for newer and better platforms.
You know, Kazaa came next, then E-Mule, then eventually uTorrent. Haha we grew up with this stuff

I really admire and respect what you do at sys! The fact that we have such different business models
in my opinion doesn't really qualify us as competitors. And even if we were, this is all open source
so I hope you and other projects take ideas as you need them.

If we are all about decentralization then eventually crypto can go beyond "X Coin, Y Coin, Z Coin"

So all the good tech will get integrated into the projects that care enough to build it out.
Your project clearly qualifies as one of them.

I've said it before and will say again. As long as the idea of DDE survives, I've done my job.

Society needs to evolve like you said...

1st they need to understand what bitcoin even is
2nd they need to actually USE bitcoin instead of gamble on it
3rd they need to start caring about using platforms that are resistant to theft and DDOS
4th they would have to start looking at altcoins
5th they would need to use altcoins
6th they would then use a trusted escrow (syscoin)
7th they would realize the power of two party escrow/DDE/Nash Equilibrium/Ultimatum Game/etc

Society has a lot of growing to do. And honestly there is like 50 more steps missing from that ladder.

Because in order for them to go to trustless tech, they need to lose trust in escrow/merchants/governments
I've pretty much lost trust in REALITY hahaha so it made sense that I would go and make something like this.

LOOK at how Mt Gox, Mintpal, BTER, etc etc... EVERY place that was centralized or had an escrow went down
ALL of them.

And what do people do? They come back for more punishment! Still no decentralized exchange!
So it will take some time for people to finally decide that trustless is better until humanity matures enough to stop telling lies.

Hopefully the peg will draw enough attention that people will market it for us. And we are easily months away from that.

By the way, you are adding a pegging system? Is this a voluntary parking system using checklocktimeverify?
Or is it something more exotic?

Syscoin does not have or plan pegging. They misuse the term for marketing reasons I believe

What does pegging mean to you?

Syscoin actually offers price pegging by the direct definition whereas it seems as bitbays is something else (something more complex).. whatever it is you cannot say it IS pegging while syscoins is not. That is naive.

I agree with david on his posts.

To me pegging is a term that is used in a macro environment like a currency.  That is consistent with how I have seen it used in economic literature and in crypto so far. For micro environments like a purchase on a market other terms are usually used.  Price guarantee, fixed price, etc.

[sidhujag]

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


The act of pegging price is exactly what is going on in Syscoin.. exactly how you think it would work by thinking of it as a price pegging feature. When you list something in USD it needs to peg that USD price to the rolling SYS/USD amount so that at any time someone may purchase it and pay correct amount at that time. The act of updating the pegging alias is what maintains the price peg for USD etc.

Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

[dzimbeck]

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


The act of pegging price is exactly what is going on in Syscoin.. exactly how you think it would work by thinking of it as a price pegging feature. When you list something in USD it needs to peg that USD price to the rolling SYS/USD amount so that at any time someone may purchase it and pay correct amount at that time. The act of updating the pegging alias is what maintains the price peg for USD etc.

Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

I actually agree with munti on this, by that terminology we already "peg" in Bitbay because the price tracker on "Cash for Coins" is a bot that follows the original USD price of the offer (making sure they always get fair market value based on exchange rates)

But that is not pegging, its tracking.

Pegs in terms of crypto are economic pegs like NuBits or Tether. (and we could even call NuBits frontrunners)

[sidhujag]

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


The act of pegging price is exactly what is going on in Syscoin.. exactly how you think it would work by thinking of it as a price pegging feature. When you list something in USD it needs to peg that USD price to the rolling SYS/USD amount so that at any time someone may purchase it and pay correct amount at that time. The act of updating the pegging alias is what maintains the price peg for USD etc.

Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

I actually agree with munti on this, by that terminology we already "peg" in Bitbay because the price tracker on "Cash for Coins" is a bot that follows the original USD price of the offer (making sure they always get fair market value based on exchange rates)

But that is not pegging, its tracking.

Pegs in terms of crypto are economic pegs like NuBits or Tether. (and we could even call NuBits frontrunners)

just because its a simple approach doesnt mean its not achieving the same thing for our purpose. Its an endogeneous solution. Later when we have assets maybe it will make more sense because you would have federated pegs of custom assets saleable through offers which because of the design is pretty easy to implement. I see now what you guys mean but i think its still just a simple peg doing the same thing.. we dont need all the rules like bitshares shellingcoin or nubits.. i think crypto invented those ideas of pegs so to me they are called something else if not more complicated two way pegs. Only real diff I can see is that they are tradeable while mine isnt. I woulnt call it something else just because its not tradeable.

[cryptohunter]

Good day for polo to add us.

Anyone had any chats with the polo guys?

If you really are still helping black out perhaps rat4 can put us on pos3 on a rock stable wallet like they have.

[Munti]

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


The act of pegging price is exactly what is going on in Syscoin.. exactly how you think it would work by thinking of it as a price pegging feature. When you list something in USD it needs to peg that USD price to the rolling SYS/USD amount so that at any time someone may purchase it and pay correct amount at that time. The act of updating the pegging alias is what maintains the price peg for USD etc.

Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

I actually agree with munti on this, by that terminology we already "peg" in Bitbay because the price tracker on "Cash for Coins" is a bot that follows the original USD price of the offer (making sure they always get fair market value based on exchange rates)

But that is not pegging, its tracking.

Pegs in terms of crypto are economic pegs like NuBits or Tether. (and we could even call NuBits frontrunners)

just because its a simple approach doesnt mean its not achieving the same thing for our purpose. Its an endogeneous solution. Later when we have assets maybe it will make more sense because you would have federated pegs of custom assets saleable through offers which because of the design is pretty easy to implement. I see now what you guys mean but i think its still just a simple peg doing the same thing.. we dont need all the rules like bitshares shellingcoin or nubits.. i think crypto invented those ideas of pegs so to me they are called something else if not more complicated two way pegs. Only real diff I can see is that they are tradeable while mine isnt. I woulnt call it something else just because its not tradeable.

I have to say I'm puzzled now. Are you seriously saying that you don't see the difference in agreeing to a price in a different currency, and the act of stabilising a currency??? It may serve your purpose, but it's nowhere near the same thing.

Crypto did not invent pegging at all. Pegging has been an important tool in macro economics for a very long time. It still is. But most countries use a more sophisticated peg now than they did before.  That makes it harder to recognise for non economists.

[funsponge]

Good day for polo to add us.

Anyone had any chats with the polo guys?

If you really are still helping black out perhaps rat4 can put us on pos3 on a rock stable wallet like they have.

Polo seem to rarely add new coins these days and if they do they will need to be in top 20 marketcap now i would think to guarantee volume. I personally have asked them 2-3 times over the last few months as im sure many other altcoins have.

Startcoin have been actively trying to get listed and have a much higher Marketcap than us and they still haven't been added.


Maybe if you asked them too and kept the pressure up for them to add us.

[sidhujag]

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


The act of pegging price is exactly what is going on in Syscoin.. exactly how you think it would work by thinking of it as a price pegging feature. When you list something in USD it needs to peg that USD price to the rolling SYS/USD amount so that at any time someone may purchase it and pay correct amount at that time. The act of updating the pegging alias is what maintains the price peg for USD etc.

Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

I actually agree with munti on this, by that terminology we already "peg" in Bitbay because the price tracker on "Cash for Coins" is a bot that follows the original USD price of the offer (making sure they always get fair market value based on exchange rates)

But that is not pegging, its tracking.

Pegs in terms of crypto are economic pegs like NuBits or Tether. (and we could even call NuBits frontrunners)

just because its a simple approach doesnt mean its not achieving the same thing for our purpose. Its an endogeneous solution. Later when we have assets maybe it will make more sense because you would have federated pegs of custom assets saleable through offers which because of the design is pretty easy to implement. I see now what you guys mean but i think its still just a simple peg doing the same thing.. we dont need all the rules like bitshares shellingcoin or nubits.. i think crypto invented those ideas of pegs so to me they are called something else if not more complicated two way pegs. Only real diff I can see is that they are tradeable while mine isnt. I woulnt call it something else just because its not tradeable.

I have to say I'm puzzled now. Are you seriously saying that you don't see the difference in agreeing to a price in a different currency, and the act of stabilising a currency??? It may serve your purpose, but it's nowhere near the same thing.

Crypto did not invent pegging at all. Pegging has been an important tool in macro economics for a very long time. It still is. But most countries use a more sophisticated peg now than they did before.  That makes it harder to recognise for non economists.

the only difference is you can trade nubits but you cant trade my peg.. its one way not two way.

[Munti]

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


The act of pegging price is exactly what is going on in Syscoin.. exactly how you think it would work by thinking of it as a price pegging feature. When you list something in USD it needs to peg that USD price to the rolling SYS/USD amount so that at any time someone may purchase it and pay correct amount at that time. The act of updating the pegging alias is what maintains the price peg for USD etc.

Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

I actually agree with munti on this, by that terminology we already "peg" in Bitbay because the price tracker on "Cash for Coins" is a bot that follows the original USD price of the offer (making sure they always get fair market value based on exchange rates)

But that is not pegging, its tracking.

Pegs in terms of crypto are economic pegs like NuBits or Tether. (and we could even call NuBits frontrunners)

just because its a simple approach doesnt mean its not achieving the same thing for our purpose. Its an endogeneous solution. Later when we have assets maybe it will make more sense because you would have federated pegs of custom assets saleable through offers which because of the design is pretty easy to implement. I see now what you guys mean but i think its still just a simple peg doing the same thing.. we dont need all the rules like bitshares shellingcoin or nubits.. i think crypto invented those ideas of pegs so to me they are called something else if not more complicated two way pegs. Only real diff I can see is that they are tradeable while mine isnt. I woulnt call it something else just because its not tradeable.

I have to say I'm puzzled now. Are you seriously saying that you don't see the difference in agreeing to a price in a different currency, and the act of stabilising a currency??? It may serve your purpose, but it's nowhere near the same thing.

Crypto did not invent pegging at all. Pegging has been an important tool in macro economics for a very long time. It still is. But most countries use a more sophisticated peg now than they did before.  That makes it harder to recognise for non economists.

the only difference is you can trade nubits but you cant trade my peg.. its one way not two way.

Finally home at my keyboard again.
Now let me try to explain this once and for all. You posted a link that I assume was ment to be your justification of using the term pegging for your pricetracking in sys.
http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html

I'll just post the definition you find there as well:

Definition
When the price of a security, commodity, or currency is fixed at a certain amount either by agreement, or intervention in the market. This is commonly used to stabilize or fix currency exchange rates, for example many international currencies are pegged to the U.S. dollar. Securities price pegging is however illegal, and regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission.

You understood the words, but completely missed the context. Commodities in this context is not an iphone or a camera. We are talking oil, grain, etc. If I where to make a definition from the top of my head I would say that a commodity is not a commodity in the above context unless it is big enough to base derivatives on it. So we are back to what I told you before. Pegging is a term that is used in a macro enviroment. (Big commodities like oil actually are like currencies in some ways)

http://www.investorwords.com/18459/pegged_price.html


Saying its a fixed price/price gaurantee etc actually confuses not only the feature but the person using the UI who are introduced with new words that they have to make sense with. (UI faux pas)

I share your concern that confusion about features should be avoided, and that's why I'm so opposed to your use of the term pegging.

[?chooseusername]

To the BitBay Team:
I heard BitBay is planning to peg its currency to the USD. If that's correct, I strongly suggest you to have a look at the Special Drawing Rights (SDR) issue by the IMF. Since we all want to move towards decentralization and crypto currency stability, pegging BitBay to SDRs it's way more stable and positive for everyone, in the fiat world this is the best you can get, and if you are going to peg BitBay to something why not to peg it to the best  currency?

Please note that pegging Bitbay to the USD comes with financial and geopolitical risk only related to the U.S.A. However, if you peg BitBay to SDRs you reduce this risk by a lot.

Some links regarding SDRs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights
https://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/data/rms_sdrv.aspx

[dzimbeck]

To the BitBay Team:
I heard BitBay is planning to peg its currency to the USD. If that's correct, I strongly suggest you to have a look at the Special Drawing Rights (SDR) issue by the IMF. Since we all want to move towards decentralization and crypto currency stability, pegging BitBay to SDRs it's way more stable and positive for everyone, in the fiat world this is the best you can get, and if you are going to peg BitBay to something why not to peg it to the best  currency?

Please note that pegging Bitbay to the USD comes with financial and geopolitical risk only related to the U.S.A. However, if you peg BitBay to SDRs you reduce this risk by a lot.

Some links regarding SDRs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights
https://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/data/rms_sdrv.aspx

Thanks for the extremely useful information. Will take a look. One thing i should mention is the mechanics of this peg will be a rolling peg. We will be able to increase the price to a target price and then hold for stability. The target price hasnt been decided, miners will vote on rates. So we will at first target price growth. The achievement is accomplished by freezing and unfreezing funds based on a global deflation rate

[toknormal]

Bitbay back on page 1.

Nice maneovre 

[cryptohunter]

Is it good for this guy sidhujag to be here running on about sys coin? Is this good manners? what about bitbay going to sys coin and discussing bitbay in there?  Is it just me being hostile or is this not usually done?

[Munti]

Is it good for this guy sidhujag to be here running on about sys coin? Is this good manners? what about bitbay going to sys coin and discussing bitbay in there?  Is it just me being hostile or is this not usually done?

I invited him to discuss pro's and con's in our different solutions at a time when nothing was going on here. So he clearly is here by invitation. I see no harm in it. I trust in what we have, and competition coming here to discuss only helps us showing what we have. And it did help revive this thread, so you should thank him if anything.

[cryptohunter]

Is it good for this guy sidhujag to be here running on about sys coin? Is this good manners? what about bitbay going to sys coin and discussing bitbay in there?  Is it just me being hostile or is this not usually done?

I invited him to discuss pro's and con's in our different solutions at a time when nothing was going on here. So he clearly is here by invitation. I see no harm in it. I trust in what we have, and competition coming here to discuss only helps us showing what we have. And it did help revive this thread, so you should thank him if anything.

In that case fair enough.

Welcome to sidhujag then.

[dzimbeck]

sidhujag is cool, he likes the Bitbay project, hes alway been very polite. Healthy debate is good, it helps us improve our software

[toknormal]

Ha !

This coin now generating interest in markets. I've been waiting for it to rise so I can exit and now I find myself not wanting to any more as the project is getting more interesting. The whole pegging business and decentralised markets used to be just a rainbow. A drawing on a blackboard that I once saw in a YouTube vid. Now it actually seems on the cusp of reality.

Funny that.

Value turns out to be a subjective property, not an objective one 

[Deanero]

Evening All,

I'm interested in buying some BitBay but cannot seem to find an exchange where I can buy 1-2 BTC worth at the market price. I need to buy in tiny little bits on Bittrex in minuscule pieces at a time. And I dont trust the other exchange.

Can anybody suggest where I could buy a chunk of BitBay?

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks