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Author Topic: BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg  (Read 542183 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 1+ user deleted.)
3r197
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May 11, 2016, 05:46:18 PM
 #2701

Gemini now supports ether trading!
This is great news for altcoins - especially programmable smart contract altcoins!


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May 11, 2016, 06:23:27 PM
 #2702

Gemini now supports ether trading!
This is great news for altcoins - especially programmable smart contract altcoins!




Yeah interesting... they seem to be hype magnets. However, the media should really not put all their faith in one protocol. They are sidelining Bitcoin in some ways, consider that Bitcoin can do smart contracts using BitHalo as well. Etherium is not tested as secure yet.
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May 11, 2016, 06:46:55 PM
 #2703

Gemini now supports ether trading!
This is great news for altcoins - especially programmable smart contract altcoins!




Yeah interesting... they seem to be hype magnets. However, the media should really not put all their faith in one protocol. They are sidelining Bitcoin in some ways, consider that Bitcoin can do smart contracts using BitHalo as well. Etherium is not tested as secure yet.


I'd rather they added bitbay than either of the other two mentioned Smiley

Also David can I ask are you 100% confident that Bitbay is going about things in a better way than syscoin?? I mean from what little I can understand it certainly seems Bitbay is going to scale better and not require 10000tb hard drives to hold the blockchain etc.

I keep seeing sys vs bitbay debates. There is one running on the main forum now. As yet the sys devs have not shown up but I'm sure they will given time. I guess no need to up the anti yet but there is only so long bitbay can remain passive in the face of copycats claiming superiority especially if that is not justified. I like both projects but really if bitbay is clearly superior this should become common knowledge to people at some point.

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May 11, 2016, 07:41:50 PM
 #2704

Gemini now supports ether trading!
This is great news for altcoins - especially programmable smart contract altcoins!




Yeah interesting... they seem to be hype magnets. However, the media should really not put all their faith in one protocol. They are sidelining Bitcoin in some ways, consider that Bitcoin can do smart contracts using BitHalo as well. Etherium is not tested as secure yet.


I'd rather they added bitbay than either of the other two mentioned Smiley

Also David can I ask are you 100% confident that Bitbay is going about things in a better way than syscoin?? I mean from what little I can understand it certainly seems Bitbay is going to scale better and not require 10000tb hard drives to hold the blockchain etc.

I keep seeing sys vs bitbay debates. There is one running on the main forum now. As yet the sys devs have not shown up but I'm sure they will given time. I guess no need to up the anti yet but there is only so long bitbay can remain passive in the face of copycats claiming superiority especially if that is not justified. I like both projects but really if bitbay is clearly superior this should become common knowledge to people at some point.

As you know I support other developers in their quest, its hard work!!

With that said, I don't think I've been shy to say that double deposit escrow is a absolutely superior technology in every way shape and form!!

Not to mention, this software is 50k lines of totally original code and 2 years in the making.

There is also many more features like automated joint accounts, live translations, templates, price tracking bots, live price feeds, counter-offer systems, accounting, change management systems, p2m, imap and bitmessage, steganography, advanced sending, reputation system, etc. Dude the list is so long I probably forgot most of the things it does under the hood.

The contracts aren't blockchain based so it doesn't add to the stress on the payment protocol. People need to remember that Bitcoin is a payment protocol FIRST not second!

So it is in my opinion a horrible idea to conflate. Adding things to the blockchain that belong as separate protocols especially since contracts can and should be done peer to peer. Why force the whole blockchain to know you are selling your 1950s coin collection?! They don't care and it doesnt effect the outcome of the payment in the slightest.

Do we really need to notarize everything? No! We notarize houses, yachts, stocks, things of great value.

Now I'm not entirely sure about the full details of sys and its blockchain, I know they use links to images so thats good. But still links should not be on a blockchain either.

However I hope the increasing of 6a is a temporary solution and that there is a long term plan to not make the markets blockchain based. I see this as a "convenient place to communicate". But just because its convenient doesn't mean its the correct way to do things. We discussed bloat recently, it was interesting to hear some of his methods of attempting to tackle the issue.

The thing of it is, Bitcoin already has a bloat problem... which has yet to be solved.

Bitcoin is a payment system, a bank. Its not a place to store everything.

My software was around before Etherium was even announced!! That shows you how long I've been working on this. It is completely unfair to compare seasoned software with new software.

I think the media has totally censored Halo in Lieu of Etherium which has been so much hype. They are a money vacuum, sucking up funds and resources. The media puts all their eggs in one basket forgetting that there is other ways to manage a blockchain. Blockchains arent powered by unicorns and rainbows... Etherium has scaling issues that go complete ignored. They may solve it, but even if they do, double deposit will always have scope well beyond "decentralized markets". It permeates all agreement and in my opinion deserves much more attention.

You can do double deposit on any coin, this software was designed to accommodate that without lock times.

Of course the media may end up censoring Halo anyways because it cuts out middle men. And they are the middle men.


By the way, I realize that entertaining "comparisons" of protocols is just asking for a debate. I'm not interested in criticizing other projects including Ethereum. They probably do great things there.
The reason we have the tech we do in Bitbay is because I believe its the best way. And of course its still the only smart contracting software in the world. Can you name another smart contracting software?

Anyways, all these coins especially Sys, have my full respect. Even Eth. Their work is hard... people seem to be thinking this is a competition. I'm not here competing with other coins. I'm just making the tech that I know in my heart is the best. I've never seen this as a competition, but a tech breeding ground. We can't force people to use it, but if we market it hard enough they will use it.

You should also remember I came to this party for double deposit. Thats why I got into crypto. That hasn't changed. Of course double deposit is the best way to do things. How many people have stopped to think about how backwards the legal system really is? We are literally living in a giant asylum. Double deposit could change that, bring people back to the hand shake deal.

This software BitHalo BlackHalo BitBay should have been on the damn cover of Forbes! It should be in Times magazine. But you have to realize the media is the gatekeepers and technology that seeks to eliminate middle men won't necessarily get the warmest reception.

Regardless, Bitbay increases your profit margins since you pay no fees to escrow. So the only thing lacking is media attention. And i think its naive to base faith in the technology of something just because it pumps or not.

Does Dogecoin have better technology than Bitbay? Just sayin...
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May 11, 2016, 07:45:42 PM
 #2705

I guess I'm hoping to not have to repeat this for the next year. It says it in our documentation, in articles, in forums, on slack all about the advantages here. You know this has all been discussed at length. We know its true. The only thing lacking is more articles, more users more marketing etc.
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May 12, 2016, 02:22:32 AM
 #2706

I think Bitbay miss one important thing: beautiful and friendly user interface. People got used to web design with good looking font styles, clear presentation, big pictures, shopping cart and wishlist buttons and so on.
Can it be done in BitBay? Maybe the option to open in browser, like NXT, NEM?
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May 12, 2016, 02:32:08 AM
 #2707

I think Bitbay miss one important thing: beautiful and friendly user interface. People got used to web design with good looking font styles, clear presentation, big pictures, shopping cart and wishlist buttons and so on.
Agreed. These things are invaluable, especially if you're already trying to take customers out of their comfort zone with new technology.
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May 12, 2016, 10:41:19 AM
Last edit: May 12, 2016, 10:53:04 AM by cryptohunter
 #2708

I hope that we will not  (anytime soon) open source the code nor open it for peer review. To be fair I would trust nobody in this environment. If you spend 2+ years of your life writing code every day just to have someone else press copy and paste at this stage of the crypto game then it is pointless supporting coins with huge time scales on development.

Like darkcoin did ....maybe release parts of it after we are several updates (ie years) ahead.

There is simply no moral  code in this arena.

The people you see there demanding  open source regarding your given project are the opens that will be the first to click copy and paste.

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May 12, 2016, 04:43:50 PM
 #2709

I hope that we will not  (anytime soon) open source the code nor open it for peer review. To be fair I would trust nobody in this environment. If you spend 2+ years of your life writing code every day just to have someone else press copy and paste at this stage of the crypto game then it is pointless supporting coins with huge time scales on development.

Like darkcoin did ....maybe release parts of it after we are several updates (ie years) ahead.

There is simply no moral  code in this arena.

The people you see there demanding  open source regarding your given project are the opens that will be the first to click copy and paste.


I will open source when the time is right. Obviously, that time should be after we get to see the market react to a completed project, and we have lots of time to market it and everything.

Also the comment about "web interface". I agree. However, I really think the UI is very good. Especially compared to what it was 2 years ago.

However, it makes me wonder if a browser version is possible. It might be with an api, perhaps eventually could look into a web developer to make a web front end that communicates to the api? Its a lot of work to do something like that. Maybe a mobile app would be more important in that case. It would be nice to have some VC before attempting something like that.
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May 16, 2016, 12:38:15 AM
 #2710

I thought you guys might want to see a list of features in Bay.
Never mind the comparing with sys. I made that as a response to them in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1456464.0

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May 16, 2016, 03:55:11 AM
Last edit: May 16, 2016, 03:08:09 PM by sidhujag
 #2711

Syscoin has whitelisting reselling and wholesaling 3 features Bay doesn't have.

Sys supports native btc addresses on chain.

Sys can roll fwd any improvements in btc core.. I dunno if Bay does that?

Sys in 2.1 will have 3 level moderation a safe search a ban allowing only direct purchases and a straight ban.

Sys blockmarket will be able to have people login to a hosted website and use the marketplace with their private keys stored in Javascript.

Sys payment gateways and ecommercr plugins will allow bidirectional gateways to common shopping carts and online systems such as PrestaShop eBay open cart and more.

Can you update the chart and add these for sys? Thanks!
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May 16, 2016, 01:29:50 PM
 #2712

I thought you guys might want to see a list of features in Bay.
Never mind the comparing with sys. I made that as a response to them in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1456464.0


good work Munti,Bay will shake the decentralised market.
D Zimbeck is a great coder the world will grasp this soon.
Regards
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May 17, 2016, 01:52:16 PM
 #2713

Syscoin has whitelisting reselling and wholesaling 3 features Bay doesn't have.

Sys supports native btc addresses on chain.

Sys can roll fwd any improvements in btc core.. I dunno if Bay does that?

Sys in 2.1 will have 3 level moderation a safe search a ban allowing only direct purchases and a straight ban.

Sys blockmarket will be able to have people login to a hosted website and use the marketplace with their private keys stored in Javascript.

Sys payment gateways and ecommercr plugins will allow bidirectional gateways to common shopping carts and online systems such as PrestaShop eBay open cart and more.

Can you update the chart and add these for sys? Thanks!

I could, but I don't really see the point. I'd just end up adding a few more of our features to balance it. I mostly made that as a comment to the way you guys have tried to define what is relevant and what is positive.
I have a better idea. Why don't we make a comparison together? Without the cheap tricks we both have been using. Both projects are solid, and we can all be proud of what we have built. Let everyone see clearly what strenghts and weaknesses there are in our different approaches.
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May 17, 2016, 09:57:29 PM
 #2714

Syscoin has whitelisting reselling and wholesaling 3 features Bay doesn't have.

Sys supports native btc addresses on chain.

Sys can roll fwd any improvements in btc core.. I dunno if Bay does that?

Sys in 2.1 will have 3 level moderation a safe search a ban allowing only direct purchases and a straight ban.

Sys blockmarket will be able to have people login to a hosted website and use the marketplace with their private keys stored in Javascript.

Sys payment gateways and ecommercr plugins will allow bidirectional gateways to common shopping carts and online systems such as PrestaShop eBay open cart and more.

Can you update the chart and add these for sys? Thanks!

I could, but I don't really see the point. I'd just end up adding a few more of our features to balance it. I mostly made that as a comment to the way you guys have tried to define what is relevant and what is positive.
I have a better idea. Why don't we make a comparison together? Without the cheap tricks we both have been using. Both projects are solid, and we can all be proud of what we have built. Let everyone see clearly what strenghts and weaknesses there are in our different approaches.

That's kind of what I was hoping for. I didn't know you had other features? We should triage and come up with a list of things that are comparable.
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May 18, 2016, 01:52:27 AM
 #2715

Syscoin has whitelisting reselling and wholesaling 3 features Bay doesn't have.

Sys supports native btc addresses on chain.

Sys can roll fwd any improvements in btc core.. I dunno if Bay does that?

Sys in 2.1 will have 3 level moderation a safe search a ban allowing only direct purchases and a straight ban.

Sys blockmarket will be able to have people login to a hosted website and use the marketplace with their private keys stored in Javascript.

Sys payment gateways and ecommercr plugins will allow bidirectional gateways to common shopping carts and online systems such as PrestaShop eBay open cart and more.

Can you update the chart and add these for sys? Thanks!

Hey thanks for the input, the guys made the chart back a few days ago and shared it on slack, the community does their own thing at times albeit the decentralized nature of managing a project like this. Hope you don't mind, I think they made it based on the one you posted in the thread they made.

I can state that there is moderation keys in Bay for banning everything from IP, to unique IDS, to encrypted IP address banning (I don't share my decrypt key but there is one)

Removing entire markets is possible but they are easy to start as they are to remove.

However putting moderation layer side by side would make sense. Since we both have one. There are two mod keys in Bitbay transforming the client to mod version.

Bitbay will roll forward Bitcoin core improvements if Blackcoin does. I did see some core staging on rat4s branch. However, you might be more on the ball with that as I tend to ignore the c++ side of things.
Bitbay doesn't re-use public keys for Bitcoin addresses. HOWEVER, BitHalo and BlackHalo and Bitbay can all use the same keys. And they are multisig. So switching from one account to another is trivial.

Paying in BTC for items is easy, as it can be specified in the contract. That would be more conducive to a barter contract although Sys UI is clearly different and made to encourage the BTC payment alternatives where Bitbay is strictly encouraging Bay.

Unless I add BitBay to BitHalo... which might happen if the pegging goes well and volume picks up. People might use BB over BH anyways because of the stability in pegs and price growth. That is sort of an unknown.


As for your block market and bidirectional gateways and e-commerce plugins we definitely don't have that and I will probably never have the time to add that. So thats definitely something Sys has.
I remember when you used to talk about that. It was cool and I'm glad to see someone has been doing that.
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May 18, 2016, 02:11:49 AM
 #2716

Syscoin has whitelisting reselling and wholesaling 3 features Bay doesn't have.

Sys supports native btc addresses on chain.

Sys can roll fwd any improvements in btc core.. I dunno if Bay does that?

Sys in 2.1 will have 3 level moderation a safe search a ban allowing only direct purchases and a straight ban.

Sys blockmarket will be able to have people login to a hosted website and use the marketplace with their private keys stored in Javascript.

Sys payment gateways and ecommercr plugins will allow bidirectional gateways to common shopping carts and online systems such as PrestaShop eBay open cart and more.

Can you update the chart and add these for sys? Thanks!

I could, but I don't really see the point. I'd just end up adding a few more of our features to balance it. I mostly made that as a comment to the way you guys have tried to define what is relevant and what is positive.
I have a better idea. Why don't we make a comparison together? Without the cheap tricks we both have been using. Both projects are solid, and we can all be proud of what we have built. Let everyone see clearly what strenghts and weaknesses there are in our different approaches.

That's kind of what I was hoping for. I didn't know you had other features? We should triage and come up with a list of things that are comparable.

To add to this Sid, if you ever need some ideas to borrow for your client let me know(I would love to borrow from other projects but I'm up to my neck in coding work and have had to turn down a lot of work just to finish what I've got on my plate). Its in python but I can explain how I approached solving certain things.

For example, PyQT has a "translate" option that it automatically puts in the UI when you build it from QT designer. Although those UI files can get fairly huge, and very redundant (Designer just makes the UI from a script but the code can be condensed at least 50% with a few days of work). I wasn't able to figure out how translate was anything automatically but manually from a strings database. Which we obviously did not have funds for.

SO, I redefined the translate function to pull from a translations file. The file translates LIVE off Google translate as the UI loads text. This meant that I had to change the Dialog Boxes to be a custom Question Box in my main Halo source so it also used my Google translator.

The last step was simply adding a simple UI for editing the translations... so that users can correct them and submit their corrections!

The result? 92 languages for all Halo products.

If you ever do translations, I recommend that approach and yet, I've never seen any software ever use that (what I thought was) simple step.

Also, steganography can be done with the Stepic library. I'm sure c++ also has it. Just remember to use Bitmaps or PNG as Jpeg gets recompressed a lot. If you are emailing the images, only use Bitmap for Base58

And hopefully eventually you will add DDE with CLTV as an option. Not to give you a bigger work load, as scope creep is a bitch that can kill a project, but I personally think its worth it.

Like sirlose said, there are other features... I even recently just added a live debugger which allows me to put "exec" statements and use the python interpreter as the code runs. An easy but useful addition for troubleshooting. Only for coders or advanced users but you can definitely use it to communicate the the blockchain too if you know the source.
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May 19, 2016, 12:34:49 AM
 #2717

Hey guys! Just wanted to give a shout out... Any help with testing out the client is much appreciated. Currently our main focus is the new beta release of the MAC and Linux OS based clients. But I don't want to sound like I'm excluding Windows users! So if you are simply lurking and don't have any BitBays, that doesn't mean you can't test the system. I currently have  a BitBay faucet in place in the form of a guarantor contract. Guarantor contracts are designed so new users can buy Bay's (or any currency for that matter) without the need for the buyer to deposit anything in escrow.
So the current faucet on the marketplace is obviously completely free - 1000 coins per user and limited to 1 contract per user. So if you haven't already downloaded the client, you can do so at bitbay.market or this thread's OP.

The faucet is the perfect opportunity for you to learn how the contract process works. If you have any issues when we are in contract, I can chat with you though the bitmessage encrypted escrow negotiation/messaging box.

Looking forward to seeing you in the marketplace!
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May 23, 2016, 12:10:17 PM
 #2718

I hope that we will not  (anytime soon) open source the code nor open it for peer review. To be fair I would trust nobody in this environment. If you spend 2+ years of your life writing code every day just to have someone else press copy and paste at this stage of the crypto game then it is pointless supporting coins with huge time scales on development.

Like darkcoin did ....maybe release parts of it after we are several updates (ie years) ahead.

There is simply no moral  code in this arena.

The people you see there demanding  open source regarding your given project are the opens that will be the first to click copy and paste.



What about the MIT licensed source code like Bitshares did?
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May 24, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
 #2719

strange to see both sys and bay losing ground lately. So many inferior coins rising above both projects. I mean bay is crazy undervalued and even sys should be higher. I still much prefer bay though and have no idea why this coin is not top 20 already.


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May 25, 2016, 07:25:56 AM
 #2720

Blockchain platforms for dapps

arent they the future ?



Is it possible to write a BitBay clone in javascript on a sidechain of Lisk ?
Or on Etherium ?

Are these platforms not the doors through which the masses will enter the cryptospace ?


By the way, i feel, this project here is more a piece of art, then a technical thing.




Dapps are mostly hype. For what reason does an application need to be on a blockchain?

The whole idea that "everything needs to be on a blockchain" is totally ridiculous. I guess when your solution is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Blockchains are for notary and banking and hashing almost exclusively. Apps function fine without existing on a chain and to put apps on a chain only bloats it.

Which is why the whole thing with Etherium is just a cash grab and I refuse to support that level of hype and greed. Regardless of whatever progress they make.
Even if they do develop into a good platform, there will be tremendous bloat issues that can only be solved by centralization. Because they are putting too much on the blockchain.

And they know it.

Lisk has a better approach of sidechains. But why would Bitbay be a sidechain of Lisk? That doesn't make any sense.
Bitbay already exists, what would this accomplish? Except make us look weak.

You still need a blockchain to store value, what difference does it make if its a sidechain? Again, more techno-babble to confuse the masses and take their money.
Sidechains may suffer from less nodes or more regulation from the parent chain.

Sidechains really only are needed for business applications where the user puts risk in the chain because the chances are is the sidechain would be centralized or with fewer peers.
So in that sense I support Lisk and similar concepts to move the risk off the miners and on to end users.

Also, why degrade this project to be some arm of Etherium which has not only proven itself to be driven by greed, and immense speculation but vaporware mostly considering they are overpromising tech
to dazzle the masses. Then repackaging that tech as a dapp and fundraising again. It almosts makes me think that modern business is ONLY about marketing.

Or perhaps we should start "governmentcoin" where everyone can be on one blockchain that is government regulated and your taxes are automatically taken out and you social security is replaced with a private
key and they can deactivate your key if you break one of the 10 million laws they have.

I dont know, please excuse my comment but Dapps are not the future. Decentralized banking is.




In any case, thanks for your kind words, although it might seem like an art, the technology used to do what we do is very complex and requires a lot of work. Much like the engine of a car.
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