BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[sidhujag]

I'll be doing a blogpost as part of a Syscoin Marketplace competitor research blog. I had some questions about BitBay as I featured it as one of the leading contenders in the marketplace space.

1) Since BitHalo uses BitMessage, would you be able to do off-line sales like that with blockchain versions of marketplace?
2) Are you using the moderation layer of BitHalo to censor offers? If so, what sort of incentives will users have to become moderators?
3) How would you support anonymity... i mean interms of obfuscating IP addresses not necessarily encrypting messages which come OOTB with BitHalo.

[1715605300]

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[1715605300]

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[dzimbeck]

I'll be doing a blogpost as part of a Syscoin Marketplace competitor research blog. I had some questions about BitBay as I featured it as one of the leading contenders in the marketplace space.

1) Since BitHalo uses BitMessage, would you be able to do off-line sales like that with blockchain versions of marketplace?
2) Are you using the moderation layer of BitHalo to censor offers? If so, what sort of incentives will users have to become moderators?
3) How would you support anonymity... i mean interms of obfuscating IP addresses not necessarily encrypting messages which come OOTB with BitHalo.

Yeah you can do offline sales absolutely. At some point, you need to broadcast though. This in effect is better than blockchain versions because its peer to peer. This really avoids blockchain bloat. Although Bitmessage itself could get bloated. However in that case changing/adding ports, establishing whitelists and dividing markets will solve that issue. Link markets dynamically the way the internet currently does.

Currently, moderation is used to delete offers for highly illegal things not censor them (that would be impossible since everything is encrypted coming in unless every offer was reviewed in advance). Obviously we dont want organ trading and other crazy things on there. Lets do our best keep this clean so we can reach the masses. Of course we cant possibly know all the markets because bitmessage decryption keys are based off the market name.

So a moderator broadcasts a message to say a market or an order should be ignored. However, a node would have to be connected to see that. Nodes that dont connect within the 2 day period will simply not see it. A permanent ban can happen by checking a server and eventually a burn address can be used. Incentive for moderation is just based on good behavior and constant connectivity. A merchant who always uses the markets and does great can be issued the moderation key. If you place that key in the folder your version of Halo is instantly converted to the mod version with extra options.

This system is extremely anon. The IP addresses are encrypted with a supermoderator key. So only I hold that one and it can be used for very positive reasons. For example, a node who is always connected can be added to knownnodes.dat in bitmessage so we have faster markets(without revealing the ip itself). However consider that I only can see an ip address of a market that im connected to. If something happens in a market I dont see it would be impossible to log that due to the nature of Bitmessage. And ive never bothered to decrypt them anyways because we are not big enough to need the performance boost of new known nodes.

Its like triple anomynoty. First with bitmessages encryption then we encrypt again in Halo and finally the p2p negotiations are encrypted with there key. So unless you are a peer to a transaction there is absolutely no way to intervene.

I should add, if you use Tor with Bitmessage or Bitcoin you lose all of your anomynoty. There is some great articles on that. In fact it even opens you up to some really powerful attacks by controlling exit nodes. So I'm looking forward to developements in i2p and mesh(people can always add Tor manually to their config file but i dont recommend it).

[dzimbeck]

Ok so here is an update installer for the windows client. Its mostly just performance enhancements and a few fixes like the bug in the previous page.
This update isnt being rolled out for linux yet. Instead that will probably be uploaded when i finish the templates.

www.davtonia.com/blackhalo/bitbayupdate.exe

[blacktea286]

Poor Bitbay, poor Dzimbeck, coins were dumped in the low-cost, it seems, Bitbay is not far away from the dead, sad!

[robzxxx]

bitbay will be 10 sat 

[blacktea286]

bitbay will be 10 sat 

maybe will 1 sat

[dzimbeck]

Poor Bitbay, poor Dzimbeck, coins were dumped in the low-cost, it seems, Bitbay is not far away from the dead, sad!

[healthhealer4]

Poor Bitbay, poor Dzimbeck, coins were dumped in the low-cost, it seems, Bitbay is not far away from the dead, sad!

Your English is bad, make sure you know what your reading, there nothing poor her but your English. 

[mrcashking]

bitbay will be 10 sat  

maybe will 1 sat

The closet thing around here to 1 sat is your opinions and your pay for posting! This coin has barley started all you have to do is sit back and cry when it takes off and you had the chance to be part of it at the cheapest rate, but you chose to attempt to add your 1 satoshi and spent all your time trying to figure out what to say. On a different note, today volume has been better going to get some more at this cheaper price.

[sidhujag]

I'll be doing a blogpost as part of a Syscoin Marketplace competitor research blog. I had some questions about BitBay as I featured it as one of the leading contenders in the marketplace space.

1) Since BitHalo uses BitMessage, would you be able to do off-line sales like that with blockchain versions of marketplace?
2) Are you using the moderation layer of BitHalo to censor offers? If so, what sort of incentives will users have to become moderators?
3) How would you support anonymity... i mean interms of obfuscating IP addresses not necessarily encrypting messages which come OOTB with BitHalo.

Yeah you can do offline sales absolutely. At some point, you need to broadcast though. This in effect is better than blockchain versions because its peer to peer. This really avoids blockchain bloat. Although Bitmessage itself could get bloated. However in that case changing/adding ports, establishing whitelists and dividing markets will solve that issue. Link markets dynamically the way the internet currently does.

Currently, moderation is used to delete offers for highly illegal things not censor them (that would be impossible since everything is encrypted coming in unless every offer was reviewed in advance). Obviously we dont want organ trading and other crazy things on there. Lets do our best keep this clean so we can reach the masses. Of course we cant possibly know all the markets because bitmessage decryption keys are based off the market name.

So a moderator broadcasts a message to say a market or an order should be ignored. However, a node would have to be connected to see that. Nodes that dont connect within the 2 day period will simply not see it. A permanent ban can happen by checking a server and eventually a burn address can be used. Incentive for moderation is just based on good behavior and constant connectivity. A merchant who always uses the markets and does great can be issued the moderation key. If you place that key in the folder your version of Halo is instantly converted to the mod version with extra options.

This system is extremely anon. The IP addresses are encrypted with a supermoderator key. So only I hold that one and it can be used for very positive reasons. For example, a node who is always connected can be added to knownnodes.dat in bitmessage so we have faster markets(without revealing the ip itself). However consider that I only can see an ip address of a market that im connected to. If something happens in a market I dont see it would be impossible to log that due to the nature of Bitmessage. And ive never bothered to decrypt them anyways because we are not big enough to need the performance boost of new known nodes.

Its like triple anomynoty. First with bitmessages encryption then we encrypt again in Halo and finally the p2p negotiations are encrypted with there key. So unless you are a peer to a transaction there is absolutely no way to intervene.

I should add, if you use Tor with Bitmessage or Bitcoin you lose all of your anomynoty. There is some great articles on that. In fact it even opens you up to some really powerful attacks by controlling exit nodes. So I'm looking forward to developements in i2p and mesh(people can always add Tor manually to their config file but i dont recommend it).

Thanks,

So if a node is offline for more than 2 days its p2p memory pool of transactions is erased correct? What happens if someone pays for an offer but that node is offline for longer than 2 days? Not saying it is a common scenario just asking the what if's...

Thanks for the clarification I will add them to the blog post. Looking fwd to your comments.

[VampiricElder]

Will there be an update/roadmap soon?

[dzimbeck]

I'll be doing a blogpost as part of a Syscoin Marketplace competitor research blog. I had some questions about BitBay as I featured it as one of the leading contenders in the marketplace space.

1) Since BitHalo uses BitMessage, would you be able to do off-line sales like that with blockchain versions of marketplace?
2) Are you using the moderation layer of BitHalo to censor offers? If so, what sort of incentives will users have to become moderators?
3) How would you support anonymity... i mean interms of obfuscating IP addresses not necessarily encrypting messages which come OOTB with BitHalo.

Yeah you can do offline sales absolutely. At some point, you need to broadcast though. This in effect is better than blockchain versions because its peer to peer. This really avoids blockchain bloat. Although Bitmessage itself could get bloated. However in that case changing/adding ports, establishing whitelists and dividing markets will solve that issue. Link markets dynamically the way the internet currently does.

Currently, moderation is used to delete offers for highly illegal things not censor them (that would be impossible since everything is encrypted coming in unless every offer was reviewed in advance). Obviously we dont want organ trading and other crazy things on there. Lets do our best keep this clean so we can reach the masses. Of course we cant possibly know all the markets because bitmessage decryption keys are based off the market name.

So a moderator broadcasts a message to say a market or an order should be ignored. However, a node would have to be connected to see that. Nodes that dont connect within the 2 day period will simply not see it. A permanent ban can happen by checking a server and eventually a burn address can be used. Incentive for moderation is just based on good behavior and constant connectivity. A merchant who always uses the markets and does great can be issued the moderation key. If you place that key in the folder your version of Halo is instantly converted to the mod version with extra options.

This system is extremely anon. The IP addresses are encrypted with a supermoderator key. So only I hold that one and it can be used for very positive reasons. For example, a node who is always connected can be added to knownnodes.dat in bitmessage so we have faster markets(without revealing the ip itself). However consider that I only can see an ip address of a market that im connected to. If something happens in a market I dont see it would be impossible to log that due to the nature of Bitmessage. And ive never bothered to decrypt them anyways because we are not big enough to need the performance boost of new known nodes.

Its like triple anomynoty. First with bitmessages encryption then we encrypt again in Halo and finally the p2p negotiations are encrypted with there key. So unless you are a peer to a transaction there is absolutely no way to intervene.

I should add, if you use Tor with Bitmessage or Bitcoin you lose all of your anomynoty. There is some great articles on that. In fact it even opens you up to some really powerful attacks by controlling exit nodes. So I'm looking forward to developements in i2p and mesh(people can always add Tor manually to their config file but i dont recommend it).

Thanks,

So if a node is offline for more than 2 days its p2p memory pool of transactions is erased correct? What happens if someone pays for an offer but that node is offline for longer than 2 days? Not saying it is a common scenario just asking the what if's...

Thanks for the clarification I will add them to the blog post. Looking fwd to your comments.

Great question! We recommend that you keep the client on during negotiations. If its responding to an offer it will time out after a couple days. We also recommend you use encrypted email instead of bitmessage during a p2p negotiation for reliability and speed. However bitmessage itself will send messages again until they have been received but i have to admit I'm not sure I like their protocol and might change it. They send 2 days then 4 then 8 so there are gaps I think. Instead for now the way to fill that in if you chose to use Bitmessage during negotiations is for the client to automatically resend the message. Also, for timeouts all my templates will give a lot of extra time to plan for delays. You can extend time of escrow by mutual agreement.

[dzimbeck]

Will there be an update/roadmap soon?

On the previous page i uploaded an update to the windows client. And soon there will be an update with templates I'm working on that now.

[Kolbas]

I have the idea. Why not inform alibaba/aliexpress and other such sellers about bitbay? Just sending them messages and emails? I think many of them could be happy to have another opportunity to sell, in addition with what they already have.

[dzimbeck]

I have the idea. Why not inform alibaba/aliexpress and other such sellers about bitbay? Just sending them messages and emails? I think many of them could be happy to have another opportunity to sell, in addition with what they already have.

Yeah this is eventually the plan. I was even thinking of having a permanent shop for trusted suppliers. So people who want to sell millions in volume can contact us and get on a special list so their listings are always in the client. Regardless, I'm trying to finish templates first so all the forms are user friendly.

In fact, once i finish an api, why cant we make a little program that does affiliate orders. So somehow a user can place ebay orders from other suppliers in BitBay that they would be willing to broker? This was we can wire through popular providers. IF there was a gateway. The thing is, it might be a little bit more expensive since the person reselling will want to mark up any item. However, it does populate the markets and i think thats kind of cool.

[hawaii18k]

Wow, this is the best and perhaps only decentralized market coin I have seen.  I am gonna buy more on this dips.  I did download the beta and applied the update.   It looks awesome.  Great job Devs.  I do have few questions and some suggestions if you don't mind.

Does this beta gui has same block chain as in regular bitbay wallet?  Also does the contract/market functional too?   I been selling on ebay for long time and this looks very viable option if it has wider acceptance.  

I noted few message above regarding marketing.  I would like offer some suggestions on that.  Forget about marketing, and materials etc.  All you need to do is have fancy professionally done OP with roadmap and *working products*.  Best way to market is for the price to go rocket up.  This will turn lots of heads and gain exposure on media.  You don't need perfect product, just hope and imagination is what you need to offer.  You already have fully working products?  Why not ditch services like jobs/barter/hire etc and set it for perhaps Bitbay 2.0.  But finish simple contract/market platform where simpleton like me can post and make a sale.    It would serve great for coin exchange also.  For example, on stock market, there is grey pool for big boys where they buy and sell big chunk outside stock exchange so the market price does not get affected.  What we need is simple yet polished product and not jack of all trade.  Something like Apple Iphone vs Samsung Galaxy.  Both are great but Apple is more simpler and intuitive to use.  You need an Apple like products.  Simple yet does what it does best.

Make a attainable roadmap, with realistic steps and goals.  Release products in timely fashion, and I am sure price will go up, which in turn,will bring in more crowds.  

Let me tell you, you want to be Ebay of Crypto land.  Ebay had first comer advantage and no one can challenge that anymore.  Bitbay also has potential to be one.  But time is of essence and lots competitor are cropping up.  Do it or become irrelevant.  Simple.

[funsponge]

Wow, this is the best and perhaps only decentralized market coin I have seen.  I am gonna buy more on this dips.  I did download the beta and applied the update.   It looks awesome.  Great job Devs.  I do have few questions and some suggestions if you don't mind.

Does this beta gui has same block chain as in regular bitbay wallet?  Also does the contract/market functional too?   I been selling on ebay for long time and this looks very viable option if it has wider acceptance.  

I noted few message above regarding marketing.  I would like offer some suggestions on that.  Forget about marketing, and materials etc.  All you need to do is have fancy professionally done OP with roadmap and *working products*.  Best way to market is for the price to go rocket up.  This will turn lots of heads and gain exposure on media.  You don't need perfect product, just hope and imagination is what you need to offer.  You already have fully working products?  Why not ditch services like jobs/barter/hire etc and set it for perhaps Bitbay 2.0.  But finish simple contract/market platform where simpleton like me can post and make a sale.    It would serve great for coin exchange also.  For example, on stock market, there is grey pool for big boys where they buy and sell big chunk outside stock exchange so the market price does not get affected.  What we need is simple yet polished product and not jack of all trade.  Something like Apple Iphone vs Samsung Galaxy.  Both are great but Apple is more simpler and intuitive to use.  You need an Apple like products.  Simple yet does what it does best.

Make a attainable roadmap, with realistic steps and goals.  Release products in timely fashion, and I am sure price will go up, which in turn,will bring in more crowds.  

Let me tell you, you want to be Ebay of Crypto land.  Ebay had first comer advantage and no one can challenge that anymore.  Bitbay also has potential to be one.  But time is of essence and lots competitor are cropping up.  Do it or become irrelevant.  Simple.

Made some very interesting points! Welcome to the future hawaii18k!

[dzimbeck]

Wow, this is the best and perhaps only decentralized market coin I have seen.  I am gonna buy more on this dips.  I did download the beta and applied the update.   It looks awesome.  Great job Devs.  I do have few questions and some suggestions if you don't mind.

Does this beta gui has same block chain as in regular bitbay wallet?  Also does the contract/market functional too?   I been selling on ebay for long time and this looks very viable option if it has wider acceptance.  

I noted few message above regarding marketing.  I would like offer some suggestions on that.  Forget about marketing, and materials etc.  All you need to do is have fancy professionally done OP with roadmap and *working products*.  Best way to market is for the price to go rocket up.  This will turn lots of heads and gain exposure on media.  You don't need perfect product, just hope and imagination is what you need to offer.  You already have fully working products?  Why not ditch services like jobs/barter/hire etc and set it for perhaps Bitbay 2.0.  But finish simple contract/market platform where simpleton like me can post and make a sale.    It would serve great for coin exchange also.  For example, on stock market, there is grey pool for big boys where they buy and sell big chunk outside stock exchange so the market price does not get affected.  What we need is simple yet polished product and not jack of all trade.  Something like Apple Iphone vs Samsung Galaxy.  Both are great but Apple is more simpler and intuitive to use.  You need an Apple like products.  Simple yet does what it does best.

Make a attainable roadmap, with realistic steps and goals.  Release products in timely fashion, and I am sure price will go up, which in turn,will bring in more crowds.  

Let me tell you, you want to be Ebay of Crypto land.  Ebay had first comer advantage and no one can challenge that anymore.  Bitbay also has potential to be one.  But time is of essence and lots competitor are cropping up.  Do it or become irrelevant.  Simple.

Yes it is the same blockchain, all accounts are multisig. However the decentralized markets run off the blockchain to prevent bloating. The contracts have been functional for over one year tried and tested(Its BitHalo/BlackHalo). So you are in good hands. The markets are functional, im happy to do a contract with you. If you wish to post to the markets, please use "Custom Contract" template. I dont control the op but i will let the slack group know that we should have some nice diagrams. Price should go up when pegging/hedging is finished. However personally within the next month or two should be a good time to buy(thats only my opinion, i dont trade coins). I dont give people "hope and imagination" im sorry man, ive always given people concrete products. I cant stand hype and vaporware.

You already CAN post and make sales of any kind, you can hire barter trade coins whatever you want right now using the custom template. Just make deposits equal to the amount. AND you can type the amounts in Dollars it will automatically detect the market price and convert it.

There will be a decentralized coin exchange. You can look up NightTrader and that runs through BlackHalo and BitBay will be supported. However its not going to be finished until the templates are done.

I understand simple but simple and decentralization are actually complex to combine. For example for a cellphone app, you would need servers since phones don't have enough memory to run a program like this. However I think the "templates" will be the simple you are looking for. No other coin will make Halo "irrelevant" since Halo is the only smart contracting platform available right now and its been around for one full year. In my opinion there will always be people who enjoy the software and it will always be a part of crypto. Software takes time and patience and thats why you see almost no competitors(other projects arent being honest or are trying to be dark markets). Also, Apple has billions of dollars to put into UI, Halo/BitBay has only one coder and you are talking to him. This is my best effort to keep it simple ... like the setup wizard for example.

Thank you for the suggestions and support! Please let me know any feedback you have, its helpful.

[neo1947]

I have the idea. Why not inform alibaba/aliexpress and other such sellers about bitbay? Just sending them messages and emails? I think many of them could be happy to have another opportunity to sell, in addition with what they already have.

Yeah this is eventually the plan. I was even thinking of having a permanent shop for trusted suppliers. So people who want to sell millions in volume can contact us and get on a special list so their listings are always in the client. Regardless, I'm trying to finish templates first so all the forms are user friendly.

In fact, once i finish an api, why cant we make a little program that does affiliate orders. So somehow a user can place ebay orders from other suppliers in BitBay that they would be willing to broker? This was we can wire through popular providers. IF there was a gateway. The thing is, it might be a little bit more expensive since the person reselling will want to mark up any item. However, it does populate the markets and i think thats kind of cool.

David l just would like to wish you good luck at Mind the Gap crypto 2.0 virtual seminar.

[hawaii18k]

Wow, this is the best and perhaps only decentralized market coin I have seen.  I am gonna buy more on this dips.  I did download the beta and applied the update.   It looks awesome.  Great job Devs.  I do have few questions and some suggestions if you don't mind.

Does this beta gui has same block chain as in regular bitbay wallet?  Also does the contract/market functional too?   I been selling on ebay for long time and this looks very viable option if it has wider acceptance.  

I noted few message above regarding marketing.  I would like offer some suggestions on that.  Forget about marketing, and materials etc.  All you need to do is have fancy professionally done OP with roadmap and *working products*.  Best way to market is for the price to go rocket up.  This will turn lots of heads and gain exposure on media.  You don't need perfect product, just hope and imagination is what you need to offer.  You already have fully working products?  Why not ditch services like jobs/barter/hire etc and set it for perhaps Bitbay 2.0.  But finish simple contract/market platform where simpleton like me can post and make a sale.    It would serve great for coin exchange also.  For example, on stock market, there is grey pool for big boys where they buy and sell big chunk outside stock exchange so the market price does not get affected.  What we need is simple yet polished product and not jack of all trade.  Something like Apple Iphone vs Samsung Galaxy.  Both are great but Apple is more simpler and intuitive to use.  You need an Apple like products.  Simple yet does what it does best.

Make a attainable roadmap, with realistic steps and goals.  Release products in timely fashion, and I am sure price will go up, which in turn,will bring in more crowds.  

Let me tell you, you want to be Ebay of Crypto land.  Ebay had first comer advantage and no one can challenge that anymore.  Bitbay also has potential to be one.  But time is of essence and lots competitor are cropping up.  Do it or become irrelevant.  Simple.

Yes it is the same blockchain, all accounts are multisig. However the decentralized markets run off the blockchain to prevent bloating. The contracts have been functional for over one year tried and tested(Its BitHalo/BlackHalo). So you are in good hands. The markets are functional, im happy to do a contract with you. If you wish to post to the markets, please use "Custom Contract" template. I dont control the op but i will let the slack group know that we should have some nice diagrams. Price should go up when pegging/hedging is finished. However personally within the next month or two should be a good time to buy(thats only my opinion, i dont trade coins). I dont give people "hope and imagination" im sorry man, ive always given people concrete products. I cant stand hype and vaporware.

You already CAN post and make sales of any kind, you can hire barter trade coins whatever you want right now using the custom template. Just make deposits equal to the amount. AND you can type the amounts in Dollars it will automatically detect the market price and convert it.

There will be a decentralized coin exchange. You can look up NightTrader and that runs through BlackHalo and BitBay will be supported. However its not going to be finished until the templates are done.

I understand simple but simple and decentralization are actually complex to combine. For example for a cellphone app, you would need servers since phones don't have enough memory to run a program like this. However I think the "templates" will be the simple you are looking for. No other coin will make Halo "irrelevant" since Halo is the only smart contracting platform available right now and its been around for one full year. In my opinion there will always be people who enjoy the software and it will always be a part of crypto. Software takes time and patience and thats why you see almost no competitors(other projects arent being honest or are trying to be dark markets). Also, Apple has billions of dollars to put into UI, Halo/BitBay has only one coder and you are talking to him. This is my best effort to keep it simple ... like the setup wizard for example.

Thank you for the suggestions and support! Please let me know any feedback you have, its helpful.

Lol.  You have done a amazing job for one man show.  I was particularly impressed how installation proceeded like a software, unlike other  crypto mumbojumbos.  Only other wallet worthy of mention is VRC.  And yes I understand "simple" can be complicated on coding part.  And thats why Apple stands out.  But you need to remember Apple started out of garage, and its their product philosophy or rather Steve Jobs, that carried them all this years.  

Good to hear that contract/trading platform is fully functional.  But you will always have this problem.  No products listed, no one will buy.  No buyers so no one will list.  Its chicken and egg problem.  All other auctions sites failed because of this.  Only Ebay stands strong because its monopolistic presence reinforces itself.

Unless you are targeting corporation/business market, you would need to do mass marketing.  Either tried and true marketing blitz which cost lots of money or something like viral marketing.  Either way, its full time work and doubt if you can do it all alone, coding, relations, marketing etc etc.

Or, price goes up. All problem solved.  When people realize what a solid wallet you have, they will be thrilled.  But first they need to come and rising price will get their attention.

Perhaps Bitbay coin price fluctuation isn't your concern and it shouldn't be, but remember more supporters you have, more help you will have and words can spread faster.  I myself only came about your coin during my routine 700 pages coin chart scan.  Other wise, I would have never heard of it.  Trust me, price goes up, boards will be filled and more converts will show up.  Some of them might even start lending hands or donations or start listing contracts.  Who knows.

I know for sure at least beefed up OP page will help.  Use lots of cool graphics and plainly laid out road map with past accomplishments.  Put in dates too if possible.  Basically its same information but laid out better with cooler graphics.  Check out EKN op page ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1019681.0 ).  Mostly its copycat vaporware with thin promises, not like Bitbay with solid product, and yet I bought in for quick ride because I know crowds will buy into it.  I bet you EKN will be has been in few months with missing dev.  But point is, people are people and they like cool looking stuff.  Just look how long EKNs OP page is.  Picture tells thousand words, and this is reason why corportions spends billions on marketing, letting people know what a great product they have.  

I am willing to donate some coins for graphic artist to "renovate" OP, and list some item when "template" is finished and off the beta status.  

It seems to me that perhaps you are perfectionist, trait that I admire, but seriously consider bring out the core product out of beta, cut out all the excess for future development, laid it out on roadmap on revamped OP page.  At least this will clearly show advanced wallet that you have.  Right now, you don't even have screen shot of beta wallet.  sigh.

I am speculator/investor so I do not mind dips( actually I love it), but clearer presentation will benefit whole community.  Bitbay is one of my few long term holds and will add more when I see dips and funds become available.