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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3901524 times)
JimiQ84
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September 24, 2013, 12:49:19 PM
 #13301

I thought that was from 200TH/s batch. And now we are talking about final gen1 batch - 1000TH/s. But maybe first half of this batch has been completed, hence 500TH/s is still pending.

as far as I know there was 12 Thash, then 50 Thash, then 200 Thash and then there was supposed to be 1000 Thash. So I guess the 500 is part of the planned 1000 Thash. Correct me if I'm wrong please

yes, that's correct. What we don't know is if those 500TH/s are first half of 1000TH/s or second half. Meaning - if 500TH/s have already been produced, or not.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
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September 24, 2013, 12:50:32 PM
 #13302

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?
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September 24, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
 #13303

Second question: None of my request for direct share transfers have been answered. Care to elaborate if there was a change in procedure?
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September 24, 2013, 12:56:32 PM
 #13304

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

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• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size

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tarmi
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September 24, 2013, 01:03:04 PM
 #13305

@ tarmi, empoweoqwj, ninjarobot
Guys, you are so wrong...
Look, did you remember last time we discussed blade production costs?
(actually that's a recurring topic, like many in this thread; I guess today is just the time for yet another iteration)

So we concluded that the mass production costs for a blade should be like around $20.  That's a reasonable price if you compare it to consumer products of similar complexity (like graphics cards).  Remember it's China and Friedcat's prices are likely very close to the lowest available anywhere in the world, at least now that the volume became so high.  Okay, let's be very pessimistic and assume a ceiling of 30$, that's around 0.25BTC by current prices, and with a reasonable profit margin it would still be more than acceptable for them to sell the blades for less than 0.5BTC.  Now please reconsider if people would buy these blades in November, if they sell for 0.5BTC!  I bet they would even in December, even if most the competitors actually deliver in time with their currently announced prices.

Also note that most competitors are less likely to have production costs as low as Friedcat (you know, Chinese are very social people; the "connections" are very valuable for them so a foreigner cannot get as good deal as a local).

Also note that 55nm chip of the same die area is much more expensive than 130 nm chip.  Of course, it's still cheaper per Gigahash, but not as much as per more powerful and efficient.  Let's say, if the 55nm chip is 8x as powerful as 130nm, then it's likely about twice as expensive per chip, so only 4x as cheap per GH.

So don't underestimate the good old 130nm, it will last at least until the end of the year.
(EDITED: "at least")


500 TH = 50 k blades = 5 k blade kits

I am not sure that you are aware of logistic and scalability problems of deploying 500 TH of asic blades. Not to mention power consummation and cooling.   

They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.
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September 24, 2013, 01:03:46 PM
 #13306

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size

Any idea when the order for the 2nd gen will be finalized

physalis
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September 24, 2013, 01:11:49 PM
 #13307

500 TH = 50 k blades = 5 k blade kits

I am not sure that you are aware of logistic and scalability problems of deploying 500 TH of asic blades. Not to mention power consummation and cooling.   

They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.

Nobody is takling about deploying 500TH.
Again: most of it will be sold, like it has always been the case with AM.
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September 24, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
 #13308

500 TH = 50 k blades = 5 k blade kits

I am not sure that you are aware of logistic and scalability problems of deploying 500 TH of asic blades. Not to mention power consummation and cooling.   
First of all, not all 500TH are going to be deployed.  Actually, I believe it's not rational to increase AM's own farm with Gen1, so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.
Second, of course I'm aware that huge volumes are not easy to handle.  However, ASICMiner has experience dealing with (slightly smaller) volumes, they have established relations with resellers worldwide, they already have franchising test-running, they have enough money.

Quote
They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.
As if a new technology instantly kills old technology the moment it appears.  Again, think volumes and costs.

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
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velacreations
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September 24, 2013, 01:23:33 PM
 #13309

Quote
They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.
As if a new technology instantly kills old technology the moment it appears.  Again, think volumes and costs.
+1
What matters is $/GH for 2013

JimiQ84
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September 24, 2013, 01:24:08 PM
 #13310

I imagine 100TH/s could be deployed in franchises, let's say 1TH/s per one franchise. No scaling, cooling, powering problem
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September 24, 2013, 01:29:06 PM
 #13311

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.


We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners.  

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?
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September 24, 2013, 01:35:08 PM
 #13312

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size
Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.
muyuu
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September 24, 2013, 01:39:46 PM
 #13313

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.


We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners.  

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?

That's a problem mostly for sellers/retailers and for particular miners.

Most of the new players have not amortised their original investment yet. Be it time or money. They will have to face higher pressure than those who already have their infrastructure in place and have been long running on profit.

AFAIC, ASICMiner remains the apex predator in this industry unless a big corporation decides to invest heavily and join the race.

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velacreations
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September 24, 2013, 01:41:11 PM
 #13314

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.
We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners. 

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?
well, they are currently selling just fine, and if prices continue to decrease as time goes on, people will continue to buy.

People still need hardware, and right now, you can wait or buy from AM.  People are choosing to buy from AM.

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September 24, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
 #13315

Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.
he's not going to release specs of Gen2 hardware before they are ready to sell.

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September 24, 2013, 01:55:45 PM
 #13316

Custom Cooling Systems
We have been finalizing on our HK datacenter with our professional partner on immersion cooling. This product will be of interest both miners, and other industries that require cooling of similar hardware. Our cooling system partner built it as an exhibition house where everything is clean and shiny for investors/buyers to visit and for ASICMINER to make videos as a demonstration.

This is the most interesting part of the news. Their first datacenter is in Shenzen, curious about the capacity of this second data center. The immersion cooling news means they are expanding beyond just Bitcoin mining and hardware sales.
BitCsByBit
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September 24, 2013, 01:56:42 PM
 #13317

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size
Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.

Why didn't you ask that?

All I read was a question about the production cycle and time projections, and they are not being produced and the order size has not yet been finalised. Huh.

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wtfvanity
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September 24, 2013, 02:08:41 PM
 #13318

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size
Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.

Why didn't you ask that?

All I read was a question about the production cycle and time projections, and they are not being produced and the order size has not yet been finalised. Huh.

It sounds to me, like they haven't even pushed the gen2 design to fab yet. Sounds like AM is being stomped by bitfury, knc, cointerra, who else? They probably were about to push out a new design around what, 45-65 dies and then realized their head is about to be crunched by 22 dies and had to make a change.

AM defined BTC ASIC's, however, unless their power is very cheap and they get to the market quickly, the are about to become meaningless.

At least IMO anyway Cheesy

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September 24, 2013, 02:15:45 PM
 #13319

I totally share Strange Vlad's feeling:
Many of you seem to believe that thiner chips instantly make the previous ones obsolete. But from a miner point of view, the equation is simple: see what you can get for which price, see how much it will consume of electricity, and see how much it will earn you in bitcoins. Looking at products with this in mind, 130nm will remain a relevant choice for many more months. I am sure AM pricing policy will constantly remind that to everybody.
When FC says "gen2 will come in time", you are wrong to think it is a way to admit they are late. It simply means "at the most appropriate time". You should really wonder why AM does not agree with you as to what is the most appropriate time...

I also share Franktank's positive view of two aspects:
1) The cooling system. Nobody saw that coming! It may sound a bit of a detail, but for me it's not: if you manage a farm of 100TH/s, that can make a huge difference in terms of electricity/maintenance. Plus, this is going slightly further bitcoin mining alone. Isn't that what many had advise AM to do?
2) The HK data center. AM is moving toward more decentralization (for the farm it manages itself). They spoke about moving partially to HK, now it becomes reality and this is very good news also for resilience to legislation matters.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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September 24, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
 #13320

Custom Cooling Systems
We have been finalizing on our HK datacenter with our professional partner on immersion cooling. This product will be of interest both miners, and other industries that require cooling of similar hardware. Our cooling system partner built it as an exhibition house where everything is clean and shiny for investors/buyers to visit and for ASICMINER to make videos as a demonstration.

This is the most interesting part of the news. Their first datacenter is in Shenzen, curious about the capacity of this second data center. The immersion cooling news means they are expanding beyond just Bitcoin mining and hardware sales.

I have a hunch on what system they are using but it is interesting news
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