ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[BitThink]

so this thread is now an AMhash thread like all the others, is it?
I got out of amhash as soon as my 5btc turned into 6btc, like a month in. Its my AM1 shares that I'm mourning here.
how do i get into the chinese social medias that discuss FC, AM, et al?

AMHash is like a bond AM (or whatever other party) owns the investors, so they have to pay back with whatever they left. However, the AM share is just a profit sharing (it's not even the share of the company bit fountain, if I am not wrong). Apparently AM has no liability to pay any dividend as long as there's no profit. Moreover, considering AM has already paid more than 6x of IPO price as the dividend, they really do not own the ( profit sharing) shareholder anything if they choose to close today.

I know it's really unfair for those bought AM shares at high price, but the reality is the reality.

Umm, no thats not how it works. The shareholders collectively own all of AM assets. If AM closed today they have to liquidate those assets and return remaining the capital to the shareholders. Unlike the complex situation with AMHash, all AM assets are owned by just one company, which makes litigation easier if they did anything outside of the best interests for the shareholders.  

You can go to page 1 and read the first post. It was clearly written AM belongs completely to the investors of Bitfountain (not investors of AMHASH). The AM share holders just have the right to get the mining profit.

and sales profits. most of what was sitting in FC's wallet. FC spending the contents of said wallet is embezzlement.
AMhash is another thread.

Yes, plus sales profit. But profit != revenue.

[conv3rsion]

so this thread is now an AMhash thread like all the others, is it?
I got out of amhash as soon as my 5btc turned into 6btc, like a month in. Its my AM1 shares that I'm mourning here.
how do i get into the chinese social medias that discuss FC, AM, et al?

AMHash is like a bond AM (or whatever other party) owns the investors, so they have to pay back with whatever they left. However, the AM share is just a profit sharing (it's not even the share of the company bit fountain, if I am not wrong). Apparently AM has no liability to pay any dividend as long as there's no profit. Moreover, considering AM has already paid more than 6x of IPO price as the dividend, they really do not own the ( profit sharing) shareholder anything if they choose to close today.

I know it's really unfair for those bought AM shares at high price, but the reality is the reality.

Umm, no thats not how it works. The shareholders collectively own all of AM assets. If AM closed today they have to liquidate those assets and return remaining the capital to the shareholders. Unlike the complex situation with AMHash, all AM assets are owned by just one company, which makes litigation easier if they did anything outside of the best interests for the shareholders.  

You can go to page 1 and read the first post. It was clearly written AM belongs completely to the investors of Bitfountain (not investors of AMHASH). The AM share holders just have the right to get the mining profit.

and sales profits. most of what was sitting in FC's wallet. FC spending the contents of said wallet is embezzlement.
AMhash is another thread.

Yes, plus sales profit. But profit != revenue.

No but all current company assets, minus liabilities, are profit. Which is what is meant by liquidation.

[jdany]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

[xhomerx10]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

 That sounds so crazy that it just might work!  I'm going to try that.... right after I buy another 100 shares of AM to hedge my bets

[OgNasty]

stayed away after that, but should have read the writing on the wall, amhash was the warning sign that all ethical standards and practices had left the building. poor fool me.

I tried to warn people early on.  This is what scares me about Spondoolies now taking the same ethical approach to their future business (i.e. selling finite cloudhashing contracts because it's easier and more profitable and passes more risk to the customer).  Once people take the path of using their reputation to screw their customers for profit, it is difficult to recover.

[delightcoin]

We are 4 shareholders and we are not going to accept this joke! We started the diplomatic correspondence with Chinese Embassy and we will put those scammers in jail, where they belong!

[jimmothy]

stayed away after that, but should have read the writing on the wall, amhash was the warning sign that all ethical standards and practices had left the building. poor fool me.

I tried to warn people early on.  This is what scares me about Spondoolies now taking the same ethical approach to their future business (i.e. selling finite cloudhashing contracts because it's easier and more profitable and passes more risk to the customer).  Once people take the path of using their reputation to screw their customers for profit, it is difficult to recover.

There's a reason the entire industry has adopted cloudmining. (I think Avalon and 21e6 are the only manufacturers who are not involved with cloudmining)

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers. They have economies of scale, home miners don't.

The only problem (which you guys seem to blame on the business model) is the lack of professional/trustworthy/non-scammy companies.

Sidenote: I find your issues with cloudmining to be a bit disingenuous seeing as how you're running some sort of mining related investment scheme.

[gogxmagog]

cloudmining can work, what bothered me about AMhash was...AM should have self mined with those machines and distributed the btc to AM shareholders. simple as that. instead they diluted AM shareholder's profits and sold them down the river. now look where we all are.

I'm venting ofc, but until FC turns up, AM is liquidated, some sort of reasonable explanation is given, our imaginations will run wild. worse even, panicking AMhash holders run to Chinese authorities and everything gets thrown in bureaucratic limbo, never to see resolution for any of us, only some corrupt Chinese officials...

[OgNasty]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

[jimmothy]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Nice strawman.

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

[lightfoot]

There's a reason the entire industry has adopted cloudmining. (I think Avalon and 21e6 are the only manufacturers who are not involved with cloudmining)

Of course. With cloud mining you never have to make a product, only run a ponzi scheme. No need for a physical address, location, tangible assets. Just a big fluffy cloud. The only investment is marketing, better the marketing, larger the scheme.

[jimmothy]

There's a reason the entire industry has adopted cloudmining. (I think Avalon and 21e6 are the only manufacturers who are not involved with cloudmining)

Of course. With cloud mining you never have to make a product, only run a ponzi scheme. No need for a physical address, location, tangible assets. Just a big fluffy cloud. The only investment is marketing, better the marketing, larger the scheme.

What you described is not cloudmining, but a ponzi scheme disguised as cloudmining.

If people would simply demand proof of hashrate before purchasing, this wouldn't be an issue.

[michaelGedi]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

as soon as I started shorting bitcoins, I had more bitcoins

[lightfoot]

What you described is not cloudmining, but a ponzi scheme disguised as cloudmining.

If people would simply demand proof of hashrate before purchasing, this wouldn't be an issue.

Problem is such a site would have a lower rate of return than a ponzi. Therefore it would have to compete against ponzis, would be flamed as a greedy bunch, and would ultimately fail.

Or one could prove hashrate, inflate the profits to the ponzi levels, then do the "pump and dump" by delivering hashing till enough money was saved up to cut and run.

In both business models, the bad money seems to crowd out the good.

This seems to be a problem.

[hdbuck]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

as soon as I started shorting bitcoins, I had more bitcoins

yup. end game.

[EternalWingsofGod]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

Ain't that the truth, well Bitcoin securities have had a very high tendency to suck
With very few exceptions all of them can be considered failures
In the end you really do have more Bitcoins avoiding them like the plague

[sngwinner]

I've sold my havelock shares and have attempted to withdraw from havelock. The withdrawal is still pending after 8 hours. I'm not sure if havelock just isn't processing now and has given up or what?

[pedrog]

I've sold my havelock shares and have attempted to withdraw from havelock. The withdrawal is still pending after 8 hours. I'm not sure if havelock just isn't processing now and has given up or what?

You may have to wait till Monday, I don't think they work weekends.

[OgNasty]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

Unfortunately, it's...

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity + advertising costs + insurance costs + employee costs + building costs + cooling costs + development costs + maintenance costs + needing to make a decent profit + taxes = Customers losing money + the Bitcoin network becoming centralized + Future Bitcoin miners/users being discouraged from participating + Current miners being less profitable + More BTC flooding the markets = Worse off for everyone to benefit the few at the top with the most fiat.  Sound familiar?

[hdbuck]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

Unfortunately, it's...

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity + employee costs + building costs + cooling costs + development costs + maintenance costs + needing to make a decent profit + taxes = Customers losing money + the Bitcoin network becoming centralized + Future Bitcoin miners/users being discouraged from participating + Current miners being less profitable + More BTC flooding the markets = Worse off for everyone to benefit the few at the top with the most fiat.  Sound familiar?