ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[VolanicEruptor]

Isn't that assuming $1/Ghs remains attractive?  With a lower exchange rate, the fiat reward for mining becomes less (because those 25BTC blocks are worth less), and so hardware becomes relatively cheaper on the market..

It just seems like it somehow balances out in the end, so BTC price doesn't even matter..

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

Isn't that assuming $1/Ghs remains attractive?  With a lower exchange rate, the fiat reward for mining becomes less (because those 25BTC blocks are worth less), and so hardware becomes relatively cheaper on the market..

It just seems like it somehow balances out in the end, so BTC price doesn't even matter..

nope. competition is selling ~$3/Gh disconnected from the exchange rate, could be 1000 or 500, doesn't matter for chip sellers(it seems like doesn't matter, risk is always on miner side, they are betting for higher exchange rate in future)

... ASICminer is selling for $1/Gh, i don't know why so horrible cheap, but i am not a boss and all I can do as a shareholder is to write my opinion here and hope that somebody from competent people will be at least thinking about it ...

[VolanicEruptor]

$1 might not be that great though if there are 2 distributors in between.  If Asicminer isn't selling them directly to the end consumer then its not fair to compare with a $3/ghs market price.  Anyways I'll shut my mouth now, I have a small amount invested so I don't want to act too bearish..

[silverfuture]

Isn't that assuming $1/Ghs remains attractive?  With a lower exchange rate, the fiat reward for mining becomes less (because those 25BTC blocks are worth less), and so hardware becomes relatively cheaper on the market..

It just seems like it somehow balances out in the end, so BTC price doesn't even matter..

nope. competition is selling ~$3/Gh disconnected from the exchange rate, could be 1000 or 500, doesn't matter for chip sellers(it seems like doesn't matter, risk is always on miner side, they are betting for higher exchange rate in future)

... ASICminer is selling for $1/Gh, i don't know why so horrible cheap, but i am not a boss ...

Keep in mind Asicminer is selling chips for .50-.99/Ghash . Once the pcb's are manufactured and other parts priced in for a complete miner as in the comparisons., it's likely to be higher but still very competitive. I'm sure they will have no problem selling out regardless of short term btc/usd value.

[VolanicEruptor]

Not to mention the quality is going to be there because its asicminer.  I don't think anyone will worry about running under spec like with Cointerra running at 1.4th/s.   

[elasticband]

. (As well as at how low voltage the chip totally stops working and how at how high it explodes)

Comedy gold FC

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

AM price is for chips, not miners.

I know. again :
http://bitmine.ch/?product=coincraft-ai-asic
price for chips 2.8$ - 3.5$Gh  ... AM 0.49$ - 0.99$

[cs54]

Seems like we are basically transferring the profit margin to the miner assembly companies.

Soo about that Rockminer IPO...

Would be nice if there was an 'obligation' to disclose related party transactions to the board, so we could get the full picture...

[minerpumpkin]

. (As well as at how low voltage the chip totally stops working and how at how high it explodes)

Comedy gold FC

Gold, Jerry, Gold!

[aahzmundus]

Seems like we are basically transferring the profit margin to the miner assembly companies.

Soo about that Rockminer IPO...

Would be nice if there was an 'obligation' to disclose related party transactions to the board, so we could get the full picture...

We are also transferring... support, logistics, sales, marketing, replacements.  We get to develop chips, and profit.  They have to deal with all sorts of curve balls, and day to day problems... and they will get paid for it.

By focusing the business, instead of getting distracted for months after you finish a chip with dealing with that chip, you can instantly focus all efforts on the next chip.

[SebastianJu]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

[vortex1878]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

Your post again makes no sense at all. Why don't you keep quiet if you are clueless?!

[KS]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

Tape out is not "physical". It's when you send the finished "chip program".

[necro_nemesis]

You guys ever heard of Google? If you don't know shit you can look it up.

Obviously there's still no relevant new information. I'm attempting to see if rockminer can offer up any insight through their blog. Maybe instead of mental masterbation you may want to try something similar.

[minerpumpkin]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

Your post again makes no sense at all. Why don't you keep quiet if you are clueless?!

Well, since Sebastian conducted several groupbuys of Avalon chips before - for several 1000s of BTC, he has been involved with chip production cycles before and does it matter whether the creation of the mask set is a one time thing or whether there may be multiple ones? I don't think this is an example of getting the concept totally wrong.
We should rather be nice and convince him to buy a couple PH of chips from AM 

[VolanicEruptor]

Yeah always be careful who you insult.. you never know when you're talking to a big customer 

[sngwinner]

So it looks like havelock pricing has adjusted for low dividends. It would be great if Friedcat could provide some guidance on whether or not AM is still going to self mine with their chips and is going to shoot for holding 10% of the network. Is juratol the designated board member contact? Could you maybe get a response from Friedcat.

Nothing has been said about abandoning this goal but the fact that they aren't going to be manufacturing miners and the board member involvement in Rockxie has me concerned.

[jimmothy]

So it looks like havelock pricing has adjusted for low dividends. It would be great if Friedcat could provide some guidance on whether or not AM is still going to self mine with their chips and is going to shoot for holding 10% of the network. Is juratol the designated board member contact? Could you maybe get a response from Friedcat.

Nothing has been said about abandoning this goal but the fact that they aren't going to be manufacturing miners and the board member involvement in Rockxie has me concerned.

Few of your questions have already been answered.

AM will be solomining with the immersion-cooled datacenter. No word about the air-cooled dc or franchising but my guess is that they will both be converted to gen3.

Also AM will manufacturer some small batches of gen3 machines.

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% which would be a nice addition to chip sales.

[sngwinner]

Few of your questions have already been answered.

AM will be solomining with the immersion-cooled datacenter. No word about the air-cooled dc or franchising but my guess is that they will both be converted to gen3.

Also AM will manufacturer some small batches of gen3 machines.

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% which would be a nice addition to chip sales.

Thanks Jimmothy. Do you know when this was mentioned or if it was from Friedcat himself. I keep up with this thread and check each of FCs posts and I don't remember this being directly stated. Assumed by others in this thread, but not stated by FC or a board member.

[ujka]

quote from friedcat, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438359 :

Full devices from ASICMiner are definitely going to exist on the form of samples and small batches. ASICMiner may also build new mining farms based on new chips. Unsliced wafers may also be available for sale. But the main business direction is to provide packaged chips.

and from 'Answers to Recent Questions of Shareholders' Concern' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3901066#msg3901066

- How will Gen 3 be divided between mining, franchising and hardware sales?
  It depends on the users of our chips. It is a safe bet that we will be moving more to pure chip distribution. But if the edge of low cost on whole devices and deploying still exists in 2014 on our side, we will do more mining/franchising/hardware sales ourselves.