ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[aahzmundus]

Seems like we are basically transferring the profit margin to the miner assembly companies.

Soo about that Rockminer IPO...

Would be nice if there was an 'obligation' to disclose related party transactions to the board, so we could get the full picture...

We are also transferring... support, logistics, sales, marketing, replacements.  We get to develop chips, and profit.  They have to deal with all sorts of curve balls, and day to day problems... and they will get paid for it.

By focusing the business, instead of getting distracted for months after you finish a chip with dealing with that chip, you can instantly focus all efforts on the next chip.

[SebastianJu]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

[vortex1878]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

Your post again makes no sense at all. Why don't you keep quiet if you are clueless?!

[KS]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

Tape out is not "physical". It's when you send the finished "chip program".

[necro_nemesis]

You guys ever heard of Google? If you don't know shit you can look it up.

Obviously there's still no relevant new information. I'm attempting to see if rockminer can offer up any insight through their blog. Maybe instead of mental masterbation you may want to try something similar.

[minerpumpkin]

It might be a preproduction with a couple chips only. Its cheaper than producing a full production mask and you can check if the design works. The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case.

For clarity... If the sample run is complete and the chips were tested and found to work, then by definition the tape-out happened weeks ago.

"The tape-out has to be done now if thats the case" in this context means that it has to have already been done.  Not that it's now time to do the tape-out.

Sorry, was just confusing when I read your reply.

I often mix things in the area and i thought tape-out is meant only when you created the final production masks. If you build sample chips you wont have a mask useful enough to run the mass production of wafers. And since those full masks are the thing that costs millions its better to make some samples first. Its cheaper, you only get a couple of asics and you can test if the design will work.

But i think its correct that the production of sample chips meet the definition of tape-out too. I guess it has to be described more in detail to know exactly what was meant.

Your post again makes no sense at all. Why don't you keep quiet if you are clueless?!

Well, since Sebastian conducted several groupbuys of Avalon chips before - for several 1000s of BTC, he has been involved with chip production cycles before and does it matter whether the creation of the mask set is a one time thing or whether there may be multiple ones? I don't think this is an example of getting the concept totally wrong.
We should rather be nice and convince him to buy a couple PH of chips from AM 

[VolanicEruptor]

Yeah always be careful who you insult.. you never know when you're talking to a big customer 

[sngwinner]

So it looks like havelock pricing has adjusted for low dividends. It would be great if Friedcat could provide some guidance on whether or not AM is still going to self mine with their chips and is going to shoot for holding 10% of the network. Is juratol the designated board member contact? Could you maybe get a response from Friedcat.

Nothing has been said about abandoning this goal but the fact that they aren't going to be manufacturing miners and the board member involvement in Rockxie has me concerned.

[jimmothy]

So it looks like havelock pricing has adjusted for low dividends. It would be great if Friedcat could provide some guidance on whether or not AM is still going to self mine with their chips and is going to shoot for holding 10% of the network. Is juratol the designated board member contact? Could you maybe get a response from Friedcat.

Nothing has been said about abandoning this goal but the fact that they aren't going to be manufacturing miners and the board member involvement in Rockxie has me concerned.

Few of your questions have already been answered.

AM will be solomining with the immersion-cooled datacenter. No word about the air-cooled dc or franchising but my guess is that they will both be converted to gen3.

Also AM will manufacturer some small batches of gen3 machines.

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% which would be a nice addition to chip sales.

[sngwinner]

Few of your questions have already been answered.

AM will be solomining with the immersion-cooled datacenter. No word about the air-cooled dc or franchising but my guess is that they will both be converted to gen3.

Also AM will manufacturer some small batches of gen3 machines.

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% which would be a nice addition to chip sales.

Thanks Jimmothy. Do you know when this was mentioned or if it was from Friedcat himself. I keep up with this thread and check each of FCs posts and I don't remember this being directly stated. Assumed by others in this thread, but not stated by FC or a board member.

[ujka]

quote from friedcat, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438359 :

Full devices from ASICMiner are definitely going to exist on the form of samples and small batches. ASICMiner may also build new mining farms based on new chips. Unsliced wafers may also be available for sale. But the main business direction is to provide packaged chips.

and from 'Answers to Recent Questions of Shareholders' Concern' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3901066#msg3901066

- How will Gen 3 be divided between mining, franchising and hardware sales?
  It depends on the users of our chips. It is a safe bet that we will be moving more to pure chip distribution. But if the edge of low cost on whole devices and deploying still exists in 2014 on our side, we will do more mining/franchising/hardware sales ourselves.

[SebastianJu]

Your post again makes no sense at all. Why don't you keep quiet if you are clueless?!

I could have saved the explaination of what i thought, right. What i was interested in was if friedcat is already mass producing chips. Though it looks like friedcat already answered that question. He speaks about an engineering batch that comes out and shortly after that the chips work. So the full production didnt start yet. I doubt that friedcat already placed himself in a queue in the foundry since he would have to pay upfront before knowing if the design works. Which means at least a month before real production of wafers.

[jimmothy]

Quote from jutarul.  The official non-official relayer of info.

5) What is the status and capacity of the immersion-cooling data center, and will it house some of the 3rd generation hardware used for mining?
re 5) Capacity is at least 1P. And yes it will be used.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% ...

When I was investing into this company ~ 1 year ago, it was publicly known that ASICminer's goal is to maintain at least 10% of global hashrate, so i did some calculations and bought shares. I was investing into mining company which goal was to mine bitcoins. I was not investing into chip manufacture which will be selling chips for fiat after one year. But yeah ... I am now in huge 75% loss, no point of selling now. I feel quite fucked by ASICminer.

[jimmothy]

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% ...

When I was investing into this company ~ 1 year ago, it was publicly known that ASICminer's goal is to maintain at least 10% of global hashrate, so i did some calculations and bought shares. I was investing into mining company which goal was to mine bitcoins. I was not investing into chip manufacture which will be selling chips for fiat after one year. But yeah ... I am now in huge 75% loss, no point of selling now. I feel quite fucked by ASICminer.

You might be the only person who feels they were screwed by asicminer.

I am assuming you bought when AM had 30% hashrate?

The 10% goal would have brought in 100k bitcoins per year which is only half of what asicminer earned.

AM can only mine if it is economically feasible. Can you imagine how much smaller last years earnings would have been without hardware sales? We were able to squeeze an extra 80k bitcoins from selling hardware that would probably never or just barely reach a positive roi.

I think FC knows this game better than anyone and will go down whatever path is most profitable as has been done in the past.

[electerium]

selling bare chips is/was the fastest way to the market. FC probably knew that gen2 couldnt compete with the current market when it owuld be released, so he scrapped it and went with the plan that pushes his chips into the market the quickest.

[server]

Is AM shareholder of this new Rockminer company ?

Or are all AM shareholders cut loose and will profit only be for the happy few ?

I mean AM will make no or minimal profit by selling gen3 chips at $0.49/GH.

[jimmothy]

Is AM shareholder of this new Rockminer company ?

Or are all AM shareholders cut loose and will profit only be for the happy few ?

I mean AM will make no or minimal profit by selling gen3 chips at $0.49/GH.

Other way around. Rockminer holds shares of AM.

And you are wrong about making no profit. If AM sells 1600PH with a profit of $0.5/GH that would mean 1,600,000 BTC or 4 btc per share.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

Other way around. Rockminer holds shares of AM.

And you are wrong about making no profit. If AM sells 1600PH with a profit of $0.5/GH that would mean 1,600,000 BTC or 4 btc per share.

Do you think that chips are growing on trees? No expenses for creating them? Its about margin now.

Rockminer doesn't own shares, only Rockxie is sitting on 2 chairs and as boardmember and personal friend with our CEO he can negotiate great discounts for chips from AM, also rights for 1st batches and fuck over all ASICminer shareholders.

[jimmothy]

Other way around. Rockminer holds shares of AM.

And you are wrong about making no profit. If AM sells 1600PH with a profit of $0.5/GH that would mean 1,600,000 BTC or 4 btc per share.

Do you think that chips are growing on trees? No expenses for creating them? Its about margin now.

Rockminer doesn't own shares, only Rockxie is sitting on 2 chairs and as boardmember and personal friend with our CEO he can negotiate great discounts for chips from AM, also rights for 1st batches and fuck over all ASICminer shareholders.

Why would rockxie/friedcat scew over shareholders when he is a large shareholder?

FC already said that chips will be sold for $0.5-1/gh depending on order date and size. I don't think FC will make a special deal with RM while cutting our profits simply to give them an advantage.

Also FC said that the chips cost $0.2/gh to manufacture so I estimate an average profit of $0.5/gh

What reason do you have to believe FC is out to screw over shareholders? Has he ever done so in the past?