ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[hdbuck]

*snip
so far selling chips is still more profitable than mining with them, right?

hard to say, guess profit trends would cross due to capacity matters.

yea, good thought. transition from sales phase to mining & development could get bumpy considering the recent 30% rise during the last two weeks and what's about to come. (or at least everybody's hoping for it )
whole situation is really hard to estimate and boggles my mind to the point where my gut tells me nothing's wrong with good ol' holding and some small trading by the side.

this 30% surge could also be considered an incentive for mining rigs manufacturers to stack up massively on chips for the upcoming demand.
regarding your guts, mine are exactly the same. hodling BTC and AM exclusively. ready to ride that summer

[hlynur]

this 30% surge could also be considered an incentive for mining rigs manufacturers to stack up massively on chips for the upcoming demand. imagine if, in the end, AM chips doubled the current network's hashrate. ^^
regarding your guts, mine are exactly the same. hodling BTC and AM exclusively. ready to ride that summer

could be...rally was obviously triggered by the usual suspects in china (huobi and co).

lol...AM doubling the hashrate, have hoped for this insanity for a whole year.

reminds me of something i posted during desperate times :

october...still some months to go   

[freedomno1]

Long time no see Friedcats Golden Ticket
Prepares to enter those mining gates for october 

[RoadStress]

Yes, but they sold at a loss (at least according to the data they released). Who cares what they did in sales if they lost money? Only thing that matters is profits.

What are you talking about?

Chips are sold at around $0.5/gh and cost around $0.2/gh.

If they sold at a loss how would they have $9,000,000 in assets?

And distributors sell miners at well over 1$/GH which means that FC isn't maximizing profits for his shareholders. The distributors seem to do a much better job on that.

[Ozziecoin]

Yes, but they sold at a loss (at least according to the data they released). Who cares what they did in sales if they lost money? Only thing that matters is profits.

What are you talking about?

Chips are sold at around $0.5/gh and cost around $0.2/gh.

If they sold at a loss how would they have $9,000,000 in assets?

And distributors sell miners at well over 1$/GH which means that FC isn't maximizing profits for his shareholders. The distributors seem to do a much better job on that.

Didn't really want to hear that. But if that's the case, FC should explain.

[aahzmundus]

Distributes have to manage distribution... and support.  I imagine after dealing with support a few times friedcat quickly decided to cut it out and that it was worth forwarding those profits to cut off that management overhead.

[Ozziecoin]

Distributes have to manage distribution... and support.  I imagine after dealing with support a few times friedcat quickly decided to cut it out and that it was worth forwarding those profits to cut off that management overhead.

I think FC can supply chips on "as is" basis. Moreover, he is selling chips not functioning miners.

[jimmothy]

Yes, but they sold at a loss (at least according to the data they released). Who cares what they did in sales if they lost money? Only thing that matters is profits.

What are you talking about?

Chips are sold at around $0.5/gh and cost around $0.2/gh.

If they sold at a loss how would they have $9,000,000 in assets?

And distributors sell miners at well over 1$/GH which means that FC isn't maximizing profits for his shareholders. The distributors seem to do a much better job on that.

What? How did you extrapolate that? I think you are imagining FC could have sold the same amount of chips at $1+/gh which is not realistic.

$4,000,000 in chip sales suggests FC knows what hes doing.

And distributors aren't fleecing anyone. For example hashratios production costs are $0.8/gh and sold for $1/gh. Extremely small margins. Even at the average price of AM hardware at $1.4/gh the margins are not huge.

Certainly nowhere near the profit per gh on overpriced hardware like spondoolies but exorbitant prices does not equal maximizing profit.

[spartan82]

Sometimes having your hands in too many pies at the same time can work against you. Friedcat chose to develop and produce and sell chips only for a good reason I'm sure, that and running a 3PH solo mining farm alone would be alot of work, so to eliminate the extra effort and trouble that arises from producing entire miners for the public I believe he's made the right move. Let others worry about marketing and outlaying all these extra associated costs with ongoing tech support, sales etc and lets focus on the bigger picture here

[RoadStress]

Yes, but they sold at a loss (at least according to the data they released). Who cares what they did in sales if they lost money? Only thing that matters is profits.

What are you talking about?

Chips are sold at around $0.5/gh and cost around $0.2/gh.

If they sold at a loss how would they have $9,000,000 in assets?

And distributors sell miners at well over 1$/GH which means that FC isn't maximizing profits for his shareholders. The distributors seem to do a much better job on that.

What? How did you extrapolate that? I think you are imagining FC could have sold the same amount of chips at $1+/gh which is not realistic.

$4,000,000 in chip sales suggests FC knows what hes doing.

And distributors aren't fleecing anyone. For example hashratios production costs are $0.8/gh and sold for $1/gh. Extremely small margins. Even at the average price of AM hardware at $1.4/gh the margins are not huge.

Certainly nowhere near the profit per gh on overpriced hardware like spondoolies but exorbitant prices does not equal maximizing profit.

Extrapolating? I'm not extrapolating anything. I'm just stating facts. You just said that hashratio is selling for 1$/GH. That's a simple fact.

I didn't say that FC should sell chips for more than 1$/GH. I said that he could sell miners for more than 1$/GH if he could produce them. How come that last year FC was able to sell for over 30$/GH when the market was below 15$/GH, but he can't do it again?

Let's see how many chips will FC sell after the big sale worth 4 mil $ (from which you saw no dividend) because those 4 mil $ mean nothing if the chips which he paid won't get sold.

Spondoolies seems to really get you since you mention them so often. This is not about SP-Tech. I was just trying to find out why would FC settle for ~0.2$/Gh profit when I think that he could get more. If hashratio has the same 0.2$/Gh profit then doesn't that mean that by producing his own miners FC could get at least 0.4$/Gh as profit?

[hdbuck]

Mining industry is scaling up and fc has anticipated it. If you think about it we're right on schedule. gen3 has been on the pipe not even for the last 6months, has been positively tested and is now being massively produced. By the end of summer we'll land on the moon.

[raskul]

Mining industry is scaling up and fc has anticipated it. If you think about we're right on schedu. gen3 has been on the pipe not even for the last 6months, has been positively tested and is now being massively produced. By the end of summer we'll land on the moon.

i agree that it is being scaled up, but not in the way you think. investors in mining equipment now want quality, ease of use and longevity.

[hdbuck]

Mining industry is scaling up and fc has anticipated it. If you think about we're right on schedu. gen3 has been on the pipe not even for the last 6months, has been positively tested and is now being massively produced. By the end of summer we'll land on the moon.

i agree that it is being scaled up, but not in the way you think. investors in mining equipment now want quality, ease of use and longevity.

How would you know am chips arent good quality. They been produced by TSMC. Such contractor doesnt do small batches and shitty quality. Its all about arbitrage between price and quality. No need expensive 28nm chips in small quantity for now. Thats the scaling that comes after this one. Fisrt the flooding.

[jimmothy]

I was just trying to find out why would FC settle for ~0.2$/Gh profit when I think that he could get more. If hashratio has the same 0.2$/Gh profit then doesn't that mean that by producing his own miners FC could get at least 0.4$/Gh as profit?

It is $0.3/gh profit.

And a few reasons why they wouldn't want to sell complete miners would be because it would require tons of extra funds/manpower, and it also creates a situation where AM is directly competing with it's partners.

It's much easier to just ship out chips and let the asic builders tear eachother apart.

Also there is no way AM would have been able to produce anywhere near 8ph worth of complete miners in a month.

[raskul]

Mining industry is scaling up and fc has anticipated it. If you think about we're right on schedu. gen3 has been on the pipe not even for the last 6months, has been positively tested and is now being massively produced. By the end of summer we'll land on the moon.

i agree that it is being scaled up, but not in the way you think. investors in mining equipment now want quality, ease of use and longevity.

How would you know am chips arent good quality. They been produced by TSMC. Such contractor doesnt do small batches and shitty quality. Its all about arbitrage between price and quality. No need expensive 28nm chips in small quantity for now. Thats the scaling that comes after this one. Fisrt the flood.

i didn't say am chips are not good quality. I will say, the miners into which they are going, are shite, many under-power for the current network and difficulty increases and do not, in any way work well in a d/c environment.  

you get what you pay for, and it's being realised by big investors.

[jimmothy]

you get what you pay for, and it's being realised by big investors

You're talking about the people who just bought around 8ph worth of AM chips right?

[NotLambchop]

jimmothy, is there a losing stock you haven't invested in?
How about sharing your portfolio with the other kids, so we could know what to avoid?

[raskul]

you get what you pay for, and it's being realised by big investors

You're talking about the people who just bought 8ph total worth of AM chips right?

to build rigs to sell on? no. i'm talking about rigs that will be hashing for miners - people who have been in this game, upheld the network for long enough and still see a worthwhile investment in mining rigs.

meanwhile... where dividends were due to shareholders, friedcat will continue to plough YOUR earnings into further development, continually reducing the profit margins until all that is left is a pittance of your original outlay.

well done friedcat, genius business plan.

[hdbuck]

Dude you gotta give some time to asic manufacturers.. Lets not make the same mistake like the previous year with bogus chips and preorders scams like bfl hahfat avalon knc etc etc.. Two months is nothing considerong the scaling potential

[madmax_ger]

you get what you pay for, and it's being realised by big investors

You're talking about the people who just bought 8ph total worth of AM chips right?

to build rigs to sell on? no. i'm talking about rigs that will be hashing for miners - people who have been in this game, upheld the network for long enough and still see a worthwhile investment in mining rigs.

meanwhile... where dividends were due to shareholders, friedcat will continue to plough YOUR earnings into further development, continually reducing the profit margins until all that is left is a pittance of your original outlay.

well done friedcat, genius business plan.

Well, it's common that old products are sold until there is no market anymore.
It seems like there is still a market for mining companies that do not deliver/fulfill (orders/promises).

I would not bet on FC anymore. Who knows what he's doing actually?