ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[jimmothy]

So the AMHash shares will only ever make a profit if difficulty increments stay below ~5%. And, even if they do, the profit will be minimal compared to the cost and only achieved after 6+ months.

I'd love to know where you keep getting info that nobody could possibly know.

Is it astrology?

Dude, it's basic math. Run it through one of the bitcoin mining calculators if you want to check for yourself.

As anyone who has mined knows, calculators are absolutely terrible at predicting ROI.

Historically the best priced hardware has always been able to ROI regardless of how many people "proved" it couldn't using calculators.

Assuming you are using a calculator that isn't just wrong in the math it does, the only uncertainty that comes in is from the "difficulty increment" parameter, which is a statement about the future and obviously cannot be predicted accurately. However, you can control it in the calculator and try different values. That's why I said they will only ROI with difficulty increments less than about 5%. If you don't understand that...

I don't disagree that difficulty must remain low for these (and any other miner) to ROI but you cannot calculate ROI with a calculator.

For example if the next 3 difficulty changes were each 0% and the 4th was 20% that would equal 5% average yet yeild much more than if it had been 20% for the first change and 0% for the next 3.

[rudi]

The difficulty is a big unknown, but so is the btc price.
Everyone here seems to assume that the btc price will stay constant as of now.

[hdbuck]

As anyone who has mined knows, calculators are absolutely terrible at predicting ROI.

Historically the best priced hardware has always been able to ROI regardless of how many people "proved" it couldn't using calculators.

That best kept secret in mining. The second best secret is just how well you do when you sell your old equipment on the secondary market when you are done with it.

Buy a unit for $500-$600, mine a coin out of it, and then sell it for $300. Happens every single day.

so true.

[stompysteve]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

[RoadStress]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

First I understood that it's $1.63/day for each GH, but now I think it's $1.63/day for each TH. Taken from their picture with maintenance being $587 for 1 year for AMHash1 that costs 1.25 BTC. But I find it weird cheap.

[jjdub7]

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI.  I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

To be frank, I'm still lost on the fact that they run the whole operation with like 5 people.

lol you guys done shilling?
what makes you think there is only 5 peps?

No communication is not synonym with failure.
No divs now doesnt imply no divs in the future.
No credibility? you gotta be kidding me

If you've ever  taken the time to read my posts, I'm clearly in the "the sun shines out of friedcat's furry little ass" camp...

[Chris_Sabian]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

First I understood that it's $1.63/day for each GH, but now I think it's $1.63/day for each TH. Taken from their picture with maintenance being $587 for 1 year for AMHash1 that costs 1.25 BTC. But I find it weird cheap.

$1.63/day for each TH makes it much more reasonable.  That price for each GH is terrible.  That would be on par with each gen1 chip with 10W/ GH

[RoadStress]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

First I understood that it's $1.63/day for each GH, but now I think it's $1.63/day for each TH. Taken from their picture with maintenance being $587 for 1 year for AMHash1 that costs 1.25 BTC. But I find it weird cheap.

$1.63/day for each TH makes it much more reasonable.  That price for each GH is terrible.  That would be on par with each gen1 chip with 10W/ GH

That's my thoughts too, but that makes it $49/month for a TH which I find too cheap. for a 0.7W/GH that would mean 700W for a TH and a power cost of just 0.03$/kWh. It's either that cheap or something is fishy here. And if AM can get so cheap power why didn't they self mined faster or stronger? That power cost is a miner's wet dream.

[stompysteve]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

First I understood that it's $1.63/day for each GH, but now I think it's $1.63/day for each TH. Taken from their picture with maintenance being $587 for 1 year for AMHash1 that costs 1.25 BTC. But I find it weird cheap.

$1.63/day for each TH makes it much more reasonable.  That price for each GH is terrible.  That would be on par with each gen1 chip with 10W/ GH

That's my thoughts too, but that makes it $49/month for a TH which I find too cheap. for a 0.7W/GH that would mean 700W for a TH and a power cost of just 0.03$/kWh. It's either that cheap or something is fishy here. And if AM can get so cheap power why didn't they self mined faster or stronger? That power cost is a miner's wet dream.

"FriedCat has more tricks up his sleeve as well with new chips on the way and a new partnership we will report on here in the future."

maybe they really do have super cheap energy and they would make more money by cloud mining? I got no answer here

[Chris_Sabian]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

First I understood that it's $1.63/day for each GH, but now I think it's $1.63/day for each TH. Taken from their picture with maintenance being $587 for 1 year for AMHash1 that costs 1.25 BTC. But I find it weird cheap.

$1.63/day for each TH makes it much more reasonable.  That price for each GH is terrible.  That would be on par with each gen1 chip with 10W/ GH

That's my thoughts too, but that makes it $49/month for a TH which I find too cheap. for a 0.7W/GH that would mean 700W for a TH and a power cost of just 0.03$/kWh. It's either that cheap or something is fishy here. And if AM can get so cheap power why didn't they self mined faster or stronger? That power cost is a miner's wet dream.

"FriedCat has more tricks up his sleeve as well with new chips on the way and a new partnership we will report on here in the future."

maybe they really do have super cheap energy and they would make more money by could mining? I got no answer here

FC was talking about finding cheap electricity at the Salon back in August.  Let's not for about the DataTank partnership as well.

[stompysteve]

im still kinda confused on the fees, each day each GH maint fee is what....

First I understood that it's $1.63/day for each GH, but now I think it's $1.63/day for each TH. Taken from their picture with maintenance being $587 for 1 year for AMHash1 that costs 1.25 BTC. But I find it weird cheap.

$1.63/day for each TH makes it much more reasonable.  That price for each GH is terrible.  That would be on par with each gen1 chip with 10W/ GH

That's my thoughts too, but that makes it $49/month for a TH which I find too cheap. for a 0.7W/GH that would mean 700W for a TH and a power cost of just 0.03$/kWh. It's either that cheap or something is fishy here. And if AM can get so cheap power why didn't they self mined faster or stronger? That power cost is a miner's wet dream.

"FriedCat has more tricks up his sleeve as well with new chips on the way and a new partnership we will report on here in the future."

maybe they really do have super cheap energy and they would make more money by cloud mining? I got no answer here

FC was talking about finding cheap electricity at the Salon back in August.  Let's not for about the DataTank partnership as well.

maybe they need funding to start upgrading their own mining OP?

[RoadStress]

FC was talking about finding cheap electricity at the Salon back in August.  Let's not for about the DataTank partnership as well.

DataTank doesn't make the electricity cheaper.

Even if they have super cheap electricity why not use if for more self mining?

[laustcozz]

Even if they have super cheap electricity why not use if for more self mining?

1. Hedging.  By selling hashpower up front for what you expect the profits to be eventually anyway you protect yourself from unexpected difficulty increase.

2. Pulling profits forward.  By selling instead of self mining you get your profits now rather than across the next year.

3. Simple profits.  If you can truly sell electricity cheaper than people can buy it at home and turn a profit doing it...why the hell not?  It has long been theorized that bitcoin will eventually be used to "export" cheap power.

[stompysteve]

FC was talking about finding cheap electricity at the Salon back in August.  Let's not for about the DataTank partnership as well.

DataTank doesn't make the electricity cheaper.

Even if they have super cheap electricity why not use if for more self mining?

The only thing that would make sense to me is if they were using gen4 as cloud mining making profits, kept selling gen3 prismas, then when the timing is right release gen4 chips to public and start gen4 prismas since the chips are apparently interchangable if I'm not wrong

[amhash]

2014-08-14 21:45:49

first newly generated coins

As they said:

Deployment of the 5 Peta-hash has been done and been tested for several days.

could mean they just hit the 5PH mark several days ago and are now ready to start their IPO.

some companies just sell the hashrate never deployed, ASICMiner is the most trustable team!!

[stompysteve]

2014-08-14 21:45:49

first newly generated coins

As they said:

Deployment of the 5 Peta-hash has been done and been tested for several days.

could mean they just hit the 5PH mark several days ago and are now ready to start their IPO.

some companies just sell the hashrate never deployed, ASICMiner is the most trustable team!!

are you the new AM PR person??

[wasubii]

damn, so apparently, FC (and boardmembers) prolonged absence could partly be explained by the fact that china has indeed restricted access to bitcointalk:

bitcointalk has been totally blocked by china interenet so i cannot login very often

are there anymore chinese people in here

We all use VPNs in China. Without them we wouldn't have google, Facebook, twitter, BBC news (sometimes), etc etc

Personally, i never go online without a VPN because I'm paranoid about Big Brother watching me...

[drasted]

2014-08-14 21:45:49

first newly generated coins

As they said:

Deployment of the 5 Peta-hash has been done and been tested for several days.

could mean they just hit the 5PH mark several days ago and are now ready to start their IPO.

some companies just sell the hashrate never deployed, ASICMiner is the most trustable team!!

are you the new AM PR person??

It looks like he made his first post before AMHash was announced on havelock. It's in chinese and is about cloud mining but google translate is doing a horrible job of translating it, making it kind of hard to understand.

[mrlupin]

2014-08-14 21:45:49

first newly generated coins

As they said:

Deployment of the 5 Peta-hash has been done and been tested for several days.

could mean they just hit the 5PH mark several days ago and are now ready to start their IPO.

some companies just sell the hashrate never deployed, ASICMiner is the most trustable team!!

If it's true friedcat's karma must be riding high. Curious to see how that will affect the dynamics of hardware sales for the next gen

[rudi]

That's my thoughts too, but that makes it $49/month for a TH which I find too cheap. for a 0.7W/GH that would mean 700W for a TH and a power cost of just 0.03$/kWh. It's either that cheap or something is fishy here. And if AM can get so cheap power why didn't they self mined faster or stronger? That power cost is a miner's wet dream.

Can you clarify how you get to $0.03/kWh?
I get the following:
For 0.7 kWh for a TH and 0.1$/kWh, we get (about) 0.7*24*30*0.1 = $50.4 per month in electricty costs.
So these maintenance fees indicate that AM gets electricity for less than $0.1/kWh. It does not indicate they get electricity for less than $0.03/kWh.
That's much more reasonable (and not even particularly cheap if they indeed pay $0.1/kWh, but I would assume they pay somewhat less).