ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[arousedrhino]

From what I recall...

1/3 of sales would be retained for Gen4 production.
2/3 of sales would be "aggressively" paid to investors.

Friedcat has never stated that 2/3 of sales would be "aggressively" paid to investors. That was just something a board member mentioned, and now since we all took his words as FC's he barely posts anymore. Please prove me wrong, I would love to see the quote of Friedcat saying that.

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[arousedrhino]

It would be nice if recent announcements from friedcat (and other official info) are linked from (updated) first thread post.

Just look at his post history:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49840;sa=showPosts

[jdany]

From what I recall...

1/3 of sales would be retained for Gen4 production.
2/3 of sales would be "aggressively" paid to investors.

Friedcat has never stated that 2/3 of sales would be "aggressively" paid to investors. That was just something a board member mentioned, and now since we all took his words as FC's he barely posts anymore. Please prove me wrong, I would love to see the quote of Friedcat saying that.

I guess the "aggressively" part was added - but the 1/3 & 2/3 was the math and prediction.

-----
9) Can you please clarify this sentence from 21st April : "The dividend schedule will be aggressive, as AM will not require large sums of retained capital." < is this still actual, or meanwhile something changed?
It is still actual. The condition in May is not a part of the plan. When we were forecasted permissively about this summer's production power of the fab, we ordered as many wafers as we could to prevent the bottleneck with wafer production.
----

15) Will the funds from future Gen 3 chips be used to fund Gen 4 chips or distributed as a dividend, and what relative percentage of income will be retained for Gen 4?
Both. 1/3 as forecasted.
----

[VolanicEruptor]

friedcat do you feel the BE300 is already highly optimized (minus futher undervolting tests) enough to not make revisions to the chip/package etc itself?

Would you also be able to elaborate more on the operations side relating to DataTank or even AMHASH?

Any chance of an estimated date for financials?

Not surprised one bit..
Seeing him actually post in here was as rare as watching a solar eclipse.  It came, and went.. and now it's over.  Half of us are still staring at the sun, in awe of what happened as we slowly blind ourselves into an even deeper state of stupidity.  

Meanwhile, Havelock enters the scene and is all like "omg FC talks and we crash!" as we watch about 40 shares trade hands, probably by havelock themselves.  same old story again and again.

[havelock]

378 units of AM traded today. None by us!

Between the new IPO and FC plus other daily divs going out the system db became sluggish.

[arousedrhino]

From what I recall...

1/3 of sales would be retained for Gen4 production.
2/3 of sales would be "aggressively" paid to investors.

Friedcat has never stated that 2/3 of sales would be "aggressively" paid to investors. That was just something a board member mentioned, and now since we all took his words as FC's he barely posts anymore. Please prove me wrong, I would love to see the quote of Friedcat saying that.

I guess the "aggressively" part was added - but the 1/3 & 2/3 was the math and prediction.

-----
9) Can you please clarify this sentence from 21st April : "The dividend schedule will be aggressive, as AM will not require large sums of retained capital." < is this still actual, or meanwhile something changed?
It is still actual. The condition in May is not a part of the plan. When we were forecasted permissively about this summer's production power of the fab, we ordered as many wafers as we could to prevent the bottleneck with wafer production.
----

15) Will the funds from future Gen 3 chips be used to fund Gen 4 chips or distributed as a dividend, and what relative percentage of income will be retained for Gen 4?
Both. 1/3 as forecasted.
----

Ohh ya, nice catch! I forgot about his response to that question. I guess he sorta said it then by saying that is still actual.

[kingcrimson]

The writings on the wall, there is no way in hell the stock will do anything but tank, it will offer zero value for the next 8 months. Then yet another unforeseen issue will pop up. Good luck all.

[VolanicEruptor]

378 units of AM traded today. None by us!

Between the new IPO and FC plus other daily divs going out the system db became sluggish.

why don't you fix your system? every time a squirrel pisses on a twig, your server gets overloaded.  It reminds me of why i stopped playing with this garbage 6 months ago.. nobody is reliable anymore.

[Puppet]

I am amazed the price has not dropped yet..

It did drop considerably, only long before you and I found out the reasons why. AM1 traded 3x higher 2 months ago.
There is no chance in hell none of the shareholders had access to much of this information through contacts with OEMs or others.

[rockxie]

The reason why we started AMHhash project is based on factors below:

For Investors:

1 Most of customers's electricity is not cheap enough for mining right now and AM find the right place to deploy.

2 Shipping to oversea from China cost too much(almost 1/4~1/3 in total).

3 Most of customers don't have enough time and technical skill to deploy large quantities miners in short time.

So buying AMHash is better than buying mining devices if you want to invest bitcoin mining industry.

For AM shareholders:

1 AM has lots of BE200s in stock,if we can't convert them to devices asap in their life time,these chips will be nothing,then it will be a big loss.Obviously,In the present case AMHash is the best choice for AM to sell large quantities chips and devices.

2 Cloud Mining is trend for bitcoin mining in future. If AMHash1 is successful, BE300 also can be benefit from this project.

3 Only if AM make profits,dividends is possible.

[Mabsark]

The writings on the wall, there is no way in hell the stock will do anything but tank, it will offer zero value for the next 8 months.

That is complete bullshit. Gen 4 tape-out occurred on September 16 and FC is expecting Gen 4 chips for testing around December 16. That's less than 2 months from now. Mass-production of Gen 4 is expected to occur in February/March. That's 4 months for mass production of gen 4, not 8.

Do you honestly think that the share price will not rise will in December if the chips pass the tests or that it wont rise with the mass production of gen 4?

Then yet another unforeseen issue will pop up. Good luck all.

If you think the price is going to continue to drop then you don't need to spread half-arsed FUD. Just sell your shares and stop posting here.

[kingcrimson]

The writings on the wall, there is no way in hell the stock will do anything but tank, it will offer zero value for the next 8 months.

That is complete bullshit. Gen 4 tape-out occurred on September 16 and FC is expecting Gen 4 chips for testing around December 16. That's less than 2 months from now. Mass-production of Gen 4 is expected to occur in February/March. That's 4 months for mass production of gen 4, not 8.

Do you honestly think that the share price will not rise will in December if the chips pass the tests or that it wont rise with the mass production of gen 4?

Then yet another unforeseen issue will pop up. Good luck all.

If you think the price is going to continue to drop then you don't need to spread half-arsed FUD. Just sell your shares and stop posting here.

If G3 failed why do we expect G4 to succeed? Both are just a lot of talk. It is just empty promises, lies, failings, then new promises, and new, different failings. Same cycle over and over again.

Honestly. It is very common in businesses and start-ups. People knock bitcoin stocks but the percentage is probably the same failure in real businesses and start-ups. Point being. AM's early success was an insane fluke that will never be repeated.

[btcbot]

The reason why we started AMHhash project is based on factors below:

For Investors:

1 Most of customers's electricity is not cheap enough for mining right now and AM find the right place to deploy.

2 Shipping to oversea from China cost too much(almost 1/4~1/3 in total).

3 Most of customers don't have enough time and technical skill to deploy large quantities miners in short time.

So buying AMHash is better than buying mining devices if you want to invest bitcoin mining industry.

For AM shareholders:

1 AM has lots of BE200s in stock,if we can't convert them to devices asap in their life time,these chips will be nothing,then it will be a big loss.Obviously,In the present case AMHash is the best choice for AM to sell large quantities chips and devices.

2 Cloud Mining is trend for bitcoin mining in future. If AMHash1 is successful, BE300 also can be benefit from this project.

3 Only if AM make profits,dividends is possible.

Thanks for the update, Rockxie... I'm sure I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that we all appreciate the long hours all AM employees and partners are putting into this. 

[Puppet]

That is complete bullshit. Gen 4 tape-out occurred on September 16 and FC is expecting Gen 4 chips for testing around December 16. That's less than 2 months from now. Mass-production of Gen 4 is expected to occur in February/March. That's 4 months for mass production of gen 4, not 8.

Gen 3 tape-out happened early February. Real world availability is only happening around now; ~8 months later.

Do you honestly think that the share price will not rise will in December if the chips pass the tests or that it wont rise with the mass production of gen 4?

Both bitfury and spondoolies expect their next gen 28nm miners this year, one with 0.2J/Gh (0.1J next year) the other 0.1J/GH at the wall. AM is aiming for 0.22-0.34J/GH (and that appears to be for the chip alone) at least one quarter later. Even if AM is on time and on spec for a change, I wouldnt get too excited if the network is pushing through 1EH by that time at todays exchange rate.

[Puppet]

The reason why we started AMHhash project is based on factors below:

The reasoning is sensible enough, but after the first full day of IPO, you managed to sell less than 2% of your initial 5PH.
Better hope AM has a plan B to get rid of its stockpile. Or should that be plan F ?

[funkymunky]

Wow, somebody's just gobbled up a lot of shares!

[jdany]

King has a very, very, very valid point.

The ASIC market is more vicious than any market I've played in.
It will roll you in a heartbeat.
Take your money.
Kick you in the nuts.
And kiss you on the way out.

AM is still in business right now because they are super smart and super honest - attributes the marketplace rewards.
AM is being bled out, because in certain areas, they are not bringing excellence to the marketplace - attributes the marketplace punishes.

The most important part of FC's update was they were handing over some of the operations to professionals.

When my businesses did all of our accounting in-house, we paid a lot of "stupid taxes" because we'd mess things up - or pay things late or not at all.  Not intentionally - we just weren't professional accountants.
When I handed the accounting over to a firm - my costs went up by $60,000 a year.
But since then, We've never had a fee or a penalty.  I freed up at least three people's worth of time and energy.

I think AM is working their ass off - and they need help.
I think they need to scale up.
ASIC's are not on the honeymoon anymore.  You have to do business like everyone else.
You're not exempt from the laws of business or capitalism.  People won't continue to buy your products in spite of the way you treat them.

AM has a great brand and a great following.
Because of a certain amount of neglect, they are losing customers and investors.
Each product cycle, it's going to be a tougher sell than the one before it.  

For all I know, they could be doing this and just keeping it to themselves.
But, everyone can agree that they need to fix these wrongs - no matter how many products you put on the shelf, it won't save a business with holes.

[electerium]

Yeah, just as I expected early in the summer when rockminer et all. launched.

AM is being bled dry into more favorable business contracts and such. Sad to see, but its true. Dividends will be non existent for at least 6 months.

The only silver lining here is that cloud mining is the future so if gen4 chips can even be remotely competitive they do fill a void in the market space as many of the basic companies are moving away from chip sales.

But let's be honest about that, AM is being bled out.

[romerun]

Before BTC rise to 10k, I expect to see many mining companies bankrupt.

[Mabsark]

If G3 failed why do we expect G4 to succeed? Both are just a lot of talk. It is just empty promises, lies, failings, then new promises, and new, different failings. Same cycle over and over again.

Honestly. It is very common in businesses and start-ups. People knock bitcoin stocks but the percentage is probably the same failure in real businesses and start-ups. Point being. AM's early success was an insane fluke that will never be repeated.

Gen 3 didn't fail, it just wasn't as good as expected and there was packaging problems initially too. Gen 2 was an actual failure.  So, why expect Gen 4 to succeed? Because FC just told us that they had solved the problems with Gen 3. Sure, new problems might arise.

Gen 3 tape-out happened early February. Real world availability is only happening around now; ~8 months later.

Nonsense. Tubes went on sale on August 12 and chips were available months earlier. If AM would have just built miners instead of selling chips, Tubes would have been available a lot earlier.

Both bitfury and spondoolies expect their next gen 28nm miners this year, one with 0.2J/Gh (0.1J next year) the other 0.1J/GH at the wall. AM is aiming for 0.22-0.34J/GH (and that appears to be for the chip alone) at least one quarter later. Even if AM is on time and on spec for a change, I wouldnt get too excited if the network is pushing through 1EH by that time at todays exchange rate.

It's not just about power efficiency. Sure, competitors may have better power efficiency but what hash rate will those chips have? Look at Bitfury or Spondoolies 40nm ASICs and compare them to AMs gen 3. If those chips were overclocked to match the hash rate of AMs, what would happen to their power efficiency? What would AM gen 3 chips power efficiency be like if the chips were underclocked to match the hash rate of Bitfury's 55nm or Spondoolies 40nm?

Here's what FC said on the issue:

For BE300 in theory it is possible to get lower than 0.225W/GH by stressing the voltage down below 0.55V, but we do not have
solid simulation data yet, so let's see after the test chips are out.

December 16 is to be expected for us to get the chips. Testing time varies at 3-10 days since we had much more preparation work already done this time.