GekkoScience BM1384 Project Development Discussion

[sidehack]

At freq 175 it should converge to 9.63GH

Regarding folks chipping in, I'd just as soon not take large chunks of coin from anyone, especially not if it's considered prepayment for sticks. Even though we have what appears to be a functional proto stick independently tested, I still don't have the final version PCBs in hand yet, let alone tested. I dunno. Maybe I should be confident enough in the prototypes? The only reason I'm buying the chips now instead of after I have tested final versions is because I gathered from Bitmain communications that chip availability was limited and needed to be taken care of soon.

Granted there's more evidence of the product than most people who take in money for Bitcoin gear ever provide, but I learned very well from my last boss the dangers of selling things which don't actually exist.

[Biodom]

OK, guys, be nice to a pi/usb hubs noob  :

1. Powered USB hub. What voltage the adapter should provide? 12v?
like this (expensive)
http://www.amazon.com/Charging-Adapter-Included-VL812-B2-Chipset/dp/B00EYXZI4M
or like this is OK (more slots for less price):
http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Adapter-Control-Switches-HB-U14P/dp/B00HL7Z46K

2. OK, I need pi: I see B+ anywhere between $25 and $35 (are chinese Ok-cheaper $25, or kgilly for $30?-both at Amazon)
Is 512 mb RAM OK?

3. what else would be needed as far as hardware and software is concerned? I have windows 8 pc and dual boot mac (with windows 7)
I would assume that that it would be helpful for pi/usb hubs/cg miner noobs like myself if someone gives an answer, which would also help with ordering.

[Ikron]

1. I know that the anker hub is a more popular choice because it allows a higher current consumption thanks to its usb 3.0 design (up to 900 ma for standard specification)
I don't know which USB protocol version the protocol converter on the stick miner runs on but usb 3.0 hubs dont like running usb 1.1 devices if it is connected to a usb 2.0 host. Luckily you can force the pi to run at usb 1.1
2. For mining, RAM is not significant here
3. I personally run the pi myself for mining. You should be able to use your Mac for operating with the pi. At first run your pi to enable ssh and use your mac for remote access.
A fair warning that the pi USB can only handle so much traffic before packets start getting messed up. I would advise only run one hub with a few miners to start with.  

[quakefiend420]

First, sorry for your loss  

I don't want to lean on y'all for footing any of that bill, but the way things have been going, I'd probably get lynched if I didn't at least alert folks to the opportunity.

If it's taken as just donations or if it's offset to the cost of the final product(s), that shouldn't be a problem.  Pre-orders in general suck, but traditionally these are for highly theoretical products or (in the past) based on supplies that are on shaky grounds.  Neither should apply here.  You know I'm in for several of the sticks anyway.

I pm'd a pledge for support.  

I would be looking to buy sticks and 18 chip boards down the road. I don't mind leaving some funds in sidehack's hands.

Same here.  sidehack, PM me with details.

[richardamullens]

Naively (and correct me if I am wrong) but I think that a Pi with its 4 USB ports could handle 4 stick miners - subject to the following conditions:

Each stick would be attached to the pi by one of those USB cables that has an auxiliary power connector.
The auxiliary connectors would plug into a USB charger type device.

As an example I have a Vinsic USB power adapter that is specified as 40W and has 5 USB power outlets - so that a Pi and 4 sticks could be powered from the device.

http://www.amazon.com/Vinsic-5-Ports-Charger-Motorola-Cellphone/dp/B00L1XQBBM

I quite like this device which I have used to power a couple of PIs and charge a phone and a battery at the same time.

Whether this is sensible of course is another matter.

[alh]

I have not tried that. Any reason to choose that instead of a powered Hub, with a solid power supply?

[philipma1957]

I have not tried that. Any reason to choose that instead of a powered Hub, with a solid power supply?

he said he owned one.  so it is free.


 I read reviews on it  I am not sure it would work I could not find anyone using it for data.

but if you have it on hand the worse that happens it it does not work or you burn it out.


Now for those that do not have a hub you can do this a few ways on the cheap.


http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Adapter-Charging-Protector-Indicators/dp/B00ELPSEVW/ref=sr_1_15?

 I used this cheap hub it ran  this 1 stick from side hack on a pc.



 I had lots of these  hubs I would sell usb stick kits on ebay 3 ant miner u-1's 1 fan 1 usb stick with miner software.

so this usb hub was fool proof on the 3 U-1 stick level. and freq 175.

 the power brick was 12 volts and  3 amps.  

once you got to 6 sticks you ran into trouble. So if you want 2 or 3 of sidehacks stick this should be okay.

If you want 6 to 10 sticks  I don't think it will work

[alh]

Naively (and correct me if I am wrong) but I think that a Pi with its 4 USB ports could handle 4 stick miners - subject to the following conditions:

Each stick would be attached to the pi by one of those USB cables that has an auxiliary power connector.
The auxiliary connectors would plug into a USB charger type device.

As an example I have a Vinsic USB power adapter that is specified as 40W and has 5 USB power outlets - so that a Pi and 4 sticks could be powered from the device.

http://www.amazon.com/Vinsic-5-Ports-Charger-Motorola-Cellphone/dp/B00L1XQBBM

I quite like this device which I have used to power a couple of PIs and charge a phone and a battery at the same time.

Whether this is sensible of course is another matter.

This might work, if you can find the right kind of "3-connector USB Aux cable". My experience with the USB Aux cables was that they would 2 "A" ends for plugging into two sockets on the computer, and the 3rd was a mini-USB connector to plug into a portable hard drive. In this application, instead of the mini-USB, you would need a "Female A" socket, as if it was a USB extension cable. I haven't seen such a cable, but I haven't ever looked.

I would think for most folks that a powered USB Hub would be much simpler and less complicated with fewer cables involved.

As for the Hub that Phil mentioned above, I too found that despite it's 10 USB sockets, I could never get more than 6 to work consistently and reliably. It looked great in terms of socket spacing and such, and I was willing to supply more 12V than the original power brick, but It always choked when I tried to add a 7th stick. I ultimately just used it as a "widely spaced" 5 port hub where it worked just great. I was running U1, U2, and Red Fury stick miners at the time.

[Yanz]

So, update.

I just got final prices from Bitmain on chips. We're organizing a two-part order, 1200 chips for me and 800 for the guy in Germany. With 1200 chips I can use 1000 as intended earlier for Compacs and Amitas (probably 600 and 200, respectively) and have 200 chips left which will allow me to do a full set of 4 of both 18-chip (half S1) and 30-chip (Prisma) boards for testing.

The portion I'll need to put up for chips and shipping is about 16.6BTC using current values. I'll be shifting funds into the 1BURGER address for now. Being as I'll be all over three states until Thursday I don't expect to take care of final business and submit payment until the end of the week. I don't want to lean on y'all for footing any of that bill, but the way things have been going, I'd probably get lynched if I didn't at least alert folks to the opportunity.

I will be happy to support development of this as well. PM'd sidehack.
I also PM'd sidehack way earlier in the development about getting some dev board design files to play with but it seems I was the only one who was interested in that.

[richardamullens]

I have not tried that. Any reason to choose that instead of a powered Hub, with a solid power supply?

Yes, as philipma1957 said, I own one and so it is free - but my experience with a powered hub was not good - of course the spacing was too close so I could only plug in 3 Antminer U2/U2+ and the device dropped so much voltage that I had to feed it with 5.75 Volts to get 4.25 out - so as you say the hub needs to be capable of supplying current in excess of the USB2 spec and if you look on ebay they seldom give that information and maybe you have other problems if you use a USB3 hub.

The points made by alh are a valid criticism.  I had a cable to hand for a hard drive that took a normal male USB connector so that wasn't a problem for me and I used one of those Buck converters with a variable output one can buy from China or Hong Kong on ebay as it was before I found the Vinsic device (which as I suggested is quite nice for powering a number of PIs).

[sidehack]

I'm reusing one of the hubs I originally jacked up for Block Erupters about two years ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241652.msg3343826#msg3343826). I pulled 5V in from my bench supply and used that to power the Pi and five sticks without any trouble. Doesn't take much for a crappy powered hub to be a not crappy powered hub.

Also, I mentioned somewhere else but Novak and I are gonna spend some time looking into building our own snazzy flexible powered hub, probably 7 port. We're looking at an internal regulator that can take in a range about 6V to 24V and steps it down to a clean 5V. The 5V rail would be tied to a barrel jack which could be used as a power input or output. We'd build it to handle at least 1.5A per socket (by which I mean every socket could deliver 1.5A simultaneously and it'd still work). I'm not sure yet if that'll be a fused limit, an implied limit, or a hardware-switched limit. But something like that would be pretty nifty for running sticks on, and also pretty nifty for hooking up to solar or a car battery or whatever else.

The rest of y'all, I'll get back to you sometime.

[PlanetCrypto]

Sorry about your loss.
May you have fair winds and following seas on your journeys.

If you need something shout.

[Mikestang]

Also, I mentioned somewhere else but Novak and I are gonna spend some time looking into building our own snazzy flexible powered hub, probably 7 port. We're looking at an internal regulator that can take in a range about 6V to 24V and steps it down to a clean 5V. The 5V rail would be tied to a barrel jack which could be used as a power input or output. We'd build it to handle at least 1.5A per socket (by which I mean every socket could deliver 1.5A simultaneously and it'd still work).

And make an option for a built-in fan for the sticks while you're at it. 

Sounds cool, part of the fun of playing with stick miners is the usb hub.

[sidehack]

And make an option for a built-in fan for the sticks while you're at it. 

No, because then it becomes special-purpose hardware.

[Mikestang]

Right, wasn't really suggesting that, thus the winky face.

I use one of these: https://www.coolgear.com/product/metal-7-port-usb-2-0-hub-w-din-rail-mounting-kit-japan-nec-chip

About the most robust usb hub I've seen.

[quakefiend420]

Right, wasn't really suggesting that, thus the winky face.

I use one of these: https://www.coolgear.com/product/metal-7-port-usb-2-0-hub-w-din-rail-mounting-kit-japan-nec-chip

About the most robust usb hub I've seen.

Man, that thing looks serious!  I just have a couple little 10 port rosewill 3.5A hubs.  Had a ton of them that I used to use for Gridseed pods way back in the day, sold most but kept a couple.  I figure I can probably run 2-3 sticks per hub, the adapter is 3.5A.

[leowonderful]

Right, wasn't really suggesting that, thus the winky face.

I use one of these: https://www.coolgear.com/product/metal-7-port-usb-2-0-hub-w-din-rail-mounting-kit-japan-nec-chip

About the most robust usb hub I've seen.

Man, that thing looks serious!  I just have a couple little 10 port rosewill 3.5A hubs.  Had a ton of them that I used to use for Gridseed pods way back in the day, sold most but kept a couple.  I figure I can probably run 2-3 sticks per hub, the adapter is 3.5A.

I use a 3-port hub. Just enough to fan one USB miner.

[PlanetCrypto]

Just a thought. . . .

If an MCU is going to be used to program/set CoreV (that has multiple A/D GPIO's) . . .
and if there was a current shunt on the incoming power connector (a circuit trace of a known length with infinitesimal resistance ) . . .
One would be able to calculate (or approximate) real-time power consumption (P=I*V in a DC circuit).

By knowing real-time power consumption, hashing rate, and a little coding, in theory, the device could have an "auto" mode that after a few iterations and time select the most cost effective clock and CoreV values. Precisely calculating and setting optimum W/GH/s.

Like stealing a page from the solar charge controller world, MPPT.
MPPT = Maximum Power Point Tracking.
OHPT = Optimum Hash Point Tracking.

If the MCU selected had a small amount of internal NVRAM, those values (CoreV and Clock Rate) could be stored to minimize the calculations after a power cycle.
After determining the optimum W/GH/s settings (saved to NVRAM), a count down timer could be used to set the periodicity for re-evaluation (say once an hour initially). This value and the std deviation/running average could also be used to "fine tune", stored in NVRAM, the periodicity of re-evaluation. This capability would help account for manufacturing tolerances and make the device aging optimized. The longer the chip has been operated the "smarter" it would become.

Creating a "smart" hashing board/device is/would be another feature set other products lack.

Probably not a cost effective solution on a stickminer, but on an 18+ chip version . . . .
That tech may be patentable, the MCU micro code is definitely copyrightable.
And may be worth something to a larger volume board manufacturer (Bitmain, Spondoolie, Avalon, etc.) or not and maintain a competitive advantage.

Just sayin' . . .

This thought line comes from a recent rather exhaustive (and ongoing) evaluation of Bitmain C1 operating parameters with a focus on the most profitable operating parameters.
Quite revealing with some of the conclusions being of the non-intuitive nature.



"Why Waltz when you can Rock'N'Roll." -- Unknown

[philipma1957]

Just a thought. . . .

If an MCU is going to be used to program/set CoreV (that has multiple A/D GPIO's) . . .
and if there was a current shunt on the incoming power connector (a circuit trace of a known length with infinitesimal resistance ) . . .
One would be able to calculate (or approximate) real-time power consumption (P=I*V in a DC circuit).

By knowing real-time power consumption, hashing rate, and a little coding, in theory, the device could have an "auto" mode that after a few iterations and time select the most cost effective clock and CoreV values. Precisely calculating and setting optimum W/GH/s.

Like stealing a page from the solar charge controller world, MPPT.
MPPT = Maximum Power Point Tracking.
OHPT = Optimum Hash Point Tracking.

If the MCU selected had a small amount of internal NVRAM, those values (CoreV and Clock Rate) could be stored to minimize the calculations after a power cycle.
After determining the optimum W/GH/s settings (saved to NVRAM), a count down timer could be used to set the periodicity for re-evaluation (say once an hour initially). This value and the std deviation/running average could also be used to "fine tune", stored in NVRAM, the periodicity of re-evaluation. This capability would help account for manufacturing tolerances and make the device aging optimized. The longer the chip has been operated the "smarter" it would become.

Creating a "smart" hashing board/device is/would be another feature set other products lack.

Probably not a cost effective solution on a stickminer, but on an 18+ chip version . . . .
That tech may be patentable, the MCU micro code is definitely copyrightable.
And may be worth something to a larger volume board manufacturer (Bitmain, Spondoolie, Avalon, etc.) or not and maintain a competitive advantage.

Just sayin' . . .

This thought line comes from a recent rather exhaustive (and ongoing) evaluation of Bitmain C1 operating parameters with a focus on the most profitable operating parameters.
Quite revealing with some of the conclusions being of the non-intuitive nature.



"Why Waltz when you can Rock'N'Roll." -- Unknown

how on earth does a c1 make less money when coins are 275  then when coins are 250 usd?

 are you assuming diff varies due to price.  if all variables are frozen other then price   an c1 makes more if coins are 275   then when coins are 250

[PlanetCrypto]

philipma1957

Horizontal axis on chart is C1 clock rate not USD/BTC.

Not label well, sorry for the confusion.

We're up late, burnin' the midnite oil?