Mihail uploaded another impression what will be released soon:

LykkeWallet margin based trading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUwhxfc3fi0

Hier die Antworten von Richard Olsen:




Frage:
"wobei ich momentan noch nicht wirklich weiß, was ich von ner Plattform halten soll, die am Spread verdient...
hört sich für mich eher nach sowas wie Plus500 oder irgendnem CFD-Broker an, die nicht wirklich Trades durchführen, sondern einfach nur die Kurse anbieten und zu große Differenzen mit Trades absichern...
und dabei  ähnlich wie ein Buchmacher agieren --> wer Gewinn macht, fliegt raus ...."


Richard Olsen:
In dieser Branche gibt es Anbieter, die die Positionen Ihrer Kunden nicht absichern und deshalb ein einseitiges Interesse haben, dass ihre Kunden Geld verlieren und nicht auf der Gewinnerseite sind. Das Geschäftsmodell von Lykke ist anders - wir sind reine Liquidity-Provider und wollen einen Marktplatz aufbauen, der für Institiutionen attraktiv ist. 

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Frage:
"Das sind auch die Gedanken die ich habe.
Außerdem frage ich mich, wenn es Whales gibt auf der Plattform und Profitrader, dann müsste Lykke im Endeffekt besser performen als Profitrader ?
Das wird dann langfristig schwer da wirklich Geld mit zu machen, und wenn sie so einen guten Algorythmus haben, warum dann nicht auf anderen Plattformen machen?
Das hört sich auf jeden Fall etwas dubios an, wenn das die einzige Einnahmequelle ist."


Richard Olsen:
Ein Marktplatz ist ein Treffpunkt mit einer riesigen Zahl von Tradern, die sehr unterschiedliche Zeithorizonte und Risikoprofile haben.  Finanzmärkte erfüllen eine sehr wichtige Funktion in einer Volkswirtschaft - sie offerieren Liquidität, d.h. man kann einen Asset verkaufen und kaufen, und gleichzeitig sind Märkte eine grosse Informationsmaschiene, die Daten verarbeiten und weiterleiten. Dies sind Dienstleistungen für die Volkswirtschaft. Investmentstrategien, die einen Beitrag zu diesen Aufgaben leisten generieren 'originären' Profit nicht zu Lasten von anderen Marktteilnehmern. Ein Markt ist kein Nullsummen Spiel, sondern ein halboffenes System, wie übrigens die Wirtschaft als Ganzes auch.

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Frage:
"Wenn Lykke keine Fee's nimmt, wie sie dann Einnahmen generieren?
Und wenn es durch Market Making funktionieren sollen, wie garantieren sie dann, dass sie gegen die besten Trading Bots und Engines ohne irgendwelche Inside Job Vorteile weltweit standhalten können?


Richard Olsen:
Wir werden nicht immer erfolgreich sein, aber so lernen wir und können unsere Algorithmen verbessern.

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Frage:
So eine Einnahmequelle wirft für mich immer dubiose Fragen auf.
Wenn es nicht funktioniert, kann es ja ein großes Verlustgeschäft werden?


Richard Olsen:
Ja - dies ist ein Risiko. Ein wichtiges Knowhow von Lykke ist die Entwicklung einer neuen Art von Ökonomie - eine Art Relativitätstheorie. Aufgrund der Theorie gibt es inhärente 'Uncertainty' zwischen Marktteilnehmern und diese Uncertainty gibt Anlass zum Phänomen der Übertreibungen - Anlagestrategien die zur Marktstabilität beitragen können systematisch Geld verdienen, da sie ein Gegegewicht zur inhärenten Uncertainty darstellen.

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Frage:
Was sind die anderen Standbeine von Lykke?

Richard Olsen:
Market making  - wir sind im Kern ein Assetmanager und verdienen die Performance Fee. Zusätzlich verdienen wir Geld als Issuer von Digital Assets und aus dem Consulting-Entwicklungsgeschäft.

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Frage:
Wie wird man als Investor in Lykke an dem Geschäft beteiligt ?"

 
Richard Olsen:
Indem sie LKk kaufen.

(Kurz-Kommentar: Er meint logischerweise Kursgewinn der Erfolg reflektiert und Dividenden - da LKK Aktienanteile entsprechen)

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Frage:
"in wieweit unterscheidet sich lykke von Iconomie und evtl. waves? da sie auch eine dezentrale handelsplattform planen. was macht lykke so einzigartig, warum sollte ich genau dort investieren und nicht bei iconomi und co.?"

Richard Olsen:
Lykke ist nicht nur eine Softwareplattform oder ein Fund - wir bauen einen integrierten Marktplatz für alle Assets, Instrumente und alle Arten von Users, einschliesslich Things - wir lösen auch das Thema von Regulatory Compliance und last but not least wir entwickeln Anlage-Liquiditystrategien aufgrund der neuen ökonomischen Theorien. Unser Zeil ist es nicht nur Software zu entwickeln, sondern einen integrierten Marplatz mit state of the art financial engineering.

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Falls jemand Nachfragen hat können wir das einfach weitermachen - Aber er hat nicht so super viel Zeit, insofern könnte es etwas mit der Beantwortung dauern. Was ich denke was gut wäre, bzw. was Lykke insgesamt braucht, auch um Bedenken zu begegnen die darauf hinauslaufen Lykke wolle andere Markt-Teilnehmer lediglich abzocken, sind auch für Nicht-Experten (bin ja selbst auch keiner) verständliche Erklärungen der Marktökonomie - also wie der Markt funktionieren wird.

Wird aber kommen. Lykke hat einige Leute die weit mehr davon verstehen als ich und an Erklärungen arbeiten (etwa David Siegen).

A fever-dream of guys who need money to hire a calculator...

The selling has nothing to do with Factom - Bitcoin-price is going up. That's all.

Now they've also shutdown the forum: http://forum.neucoin.org/ (redirects to blog)

I tend to disagree, since all what they've done was to collect ICO-money and then the plan was to make a get-rich-quick-scheme out of staking their high majority of Coins in this monster-inflation-crap-design. Besides their laziness on development side that's the major reason what burned everbody who touched this. I mean, take a look at the chart. It went from about 5000 sat to 1 sat. Just because there never was a pump it doesn't mean that ongoing dumping is better in any way.

Not possible to withdraw?

But, tbh: It really doesn't matter. The project is abandoned and it never made any sense and had no chance and there won't be any market for it in future. There is also no way to overtake it, since it's really deeply rigged (economics - premine plus monster-inflation) while it doesn't offer anything.

Everybody who invested in this and wasn't able to go out should see it as "education-money". I've also made some bad investments, especially back in 2014. Most important is to learn out of bad decisions.

Bittrex is/was the only one: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/neucoin/#markets

What coinmarket-cap shows or not shows is not that relevant. Imagine any of the more established projects, let's say Dash: Would people trade it if they would know: 99.9% is in the hand of the team? Of course not. They already had problems because of instamine-accusations! Or take Factom: Total supply is valued at about $30 million. And they have partnerships all over the world, they make real business. But the total supply of this 99.9%-premine-*whatever*-project should value at hundreds of millions without a whitepaper? People wouldn't even buy into Factom if the team would hold that much!

Since it's not possible that this is a quality-project and since there is proof that the guys behind didn't really think about it, it's not even relevant if this is a planned scam (if yes, not even smart) or just naive-stupid. Out of Investor-perspective both stays the same: Safe way to lose money.

I know that Coinmarketcap shows it that way. But that doesn't change the facts I've tried to explain above. Imagine it this way:

You start a project. And let's say that you are really a great CEO and Coder and totally honest - but there is nothing else yet than an idea. You sell the idea for 0.1% of the total supply. The rest is under your control or in escrow, will be released when you reach certain milestones.
The total supply is valued at about $500 million.

The 0.1% is the available supply that is on the market.

Since you are a great coder and you hired other great guys you meet those milestones over time and of course: You need funding and you want to distribute the currency. So you sell - maybe in additional ICO's. But if your first ICO already had a price as if the project already would be worth half a billion dollar - where should be room to make profit for your Investors? It will need years of perfect development and marketing and work in all aspects to get a project to such a valuation.  

But the problem is: Even if you would be the best coder and the most honest person - people can't possibly know if that is really the case until you prove it over time. But the decision to make such an ICO would already prove the opposite. It would show that you have no understanding. It's not possible that people will adopt a 99.9% premine-cryptocurrency! That wouldn't even be possible if the price would be a fraction of what it is now! And there is also no reason for another central-bank-illness! Cryptocurrencies are not about central-control - it's about the opposite!

And just to avoid misunderstandings: I'm not talking about you here - that's what this project is about. They have no clue!  


This project has zero chance and I'm not guessing! It's a fact!

And because your question about Neucoin:

This was my prediction right after launch end of Sept 15:



This is the chart:




It's dead... And btw, Neucoin-Investors also called me a troll while I just outlined the facts. And Neucoin was much bigger than this project. Even the Doge-Inventor Jackson Palmer promoted it and the Founder of Neucoin was the Millionair behind Candy-Crush.

Why am I wrong with the marketcap-aspect? And sure, would like to see a working project with such economics.

The only project I know that tried something similar was Neucoin. Investors gave about $1 million in Bitcoin. They've lost everything(!), the price went down from 7000 Sat to 1 Sat while Bitcoin increased from about $250 to what it is now.

Total and available supply - difference: Because it's that way on Coinmarketcap or why?

Is it really that hard to understand that it doesn't matter? Let me explain why, because you really seem to be new to Crypto:

The team sells amount x of Coins now (most likely not even close to 1%). Let's call that available supply. That is the amount that will be on the market right after the ICO! I think we agree here.

But: They've sold this amount x at a price that the total amount values at about $450,000,000

That means nothing else than Debt on a future price (only if this project should turn out as very successful) on the back of those who invest now. Because they already pay the price as if this would have such a value!


Totally centralized:

They hold these 99.9% premine - in escrow. What I mean with "can be anything" is: There are no rules, no informations how and how much Coins they get and when --> to sell it. And I'm not aware that there are informations who will hold those coins.

So, let's say they give themselve rules when they get more of the premine - that will reach the market. And it will happen additionally to the inflation because of the PoS-System - while nobody knows the inflation-rate, right?


Let's think about the premine - doesn't it need a lot of trust that it won't be staked?

You know what would be possible with an amount that is > 50% in a PoS-System, right?

With 99.9% this project is no Cryptocurrency! It's a totally centralized central-bank-premine-whatever-thing at a ridiculous high price.


Every aspect needs trust while all given informations, and especially those informations that are not given show:

There is zero reason to trust the guys behind this in any way. Nothing shows honesty. Nothing shows abilities.


 

Man, escrow can be anything. The real question is how the supply will be distributed. And again: What you tell people here about the market-cap is totally misleading!

1. They create a total supply of 15bn Coins!
2. They sell whatever is possible in an ICO at a price that the total would be about $450 m - that is telling about the price!
3. Of course, only a fraction of those Coins will be sold out
4. The Rest, and that will be >99% --> in cold-escrow-storage

Who will be escrow btw?

5. Nobody knows how they plan to distribute, but it's clear: They want to sell the rest! Whatever rules there might be pointed out to get it - I don't know!

6. Nobody knows the inflation-rate right now! That's another fun-fact!

Are these basic-economic-facts so hard to understand?


For me it's very hard to understand why you have so much trust if you don't know more than me and if you don't know them. And if you are honest about "no connections" - that means nothing more than that you defend something plus trying to give me a troll-branding while you know nothing about this! Of course that's possible. It's maybe even usual for guys without any experience in Crypto.

Aha! The OP says he can't disclosure some informations because of "interest of conflict" and you say now my questions have already been answered? Then it shouldn't be a problem to show me where, right? And since you consider me as a troll - the question "why?" is also not answered yet.


See, I've read all posts of the OP. And most of the time in this whole thread it's about bounties. Nearly nothing is to find about very basic informations.

Please show me the info how they plan to distribute the Coins that will not be sold in the ICO. I know that the plan is to hold them in cold-storage - but even if one would trust them (and again: that means this is a 99.9%-premine-project) there is still the question HOW to distribute them.

You say the info was given - please show me where.


And you can't talk the fact away that the value of the total supply at an average ICO-price would be about $450,000,000!

With other words: If they plan to distribute the premine and let's say they would act very carefully - it would still mean, that the market-price can't possibly rise until the market would value this project at hundreds of millions of dollar.

Again: Why don't you have those questions? Are you connected to the team?

Why do you consider questions about basic informations as trolling?

The value of a project is about the total supply. If 99.9% are in the hands of the team it just means, that this Coin is a 99.9%-premine-project.

Or what will happen with the Coins that are not in circulation? How will they be distributed?

And again: That you don't seem to have those questions but consider me as a troll - that is interesting.
 

You can call it donation but that doesn't change the fact, that those who would think about "donating" only would give money if they believe to see any kind of return, right? I mean, this market is not about charity-financing of teams who make big promises but don't even give basic informations. You say the reason is "conflict of interest" - that's interesting. Especially because you believe here as well (like with the whitepaper) that it's "not necessary" to explain that a little bit more.

And out of Investor-perspective one of the major question is the supply of course and the price etc. Right now, even if you would only sell 1 million Tokens of 15 billion - the marketcap of the total would be about $450 million.

How is it possible to evaluate this project so high?


Thing is: Even if I would believe that this could turn out as a quality-project by it's fundamentals and that you guys basically know what you're doing and all informations would be given, "just" this would let me step back:

- unbelievable high price
- Huge majority of Coins in hands of the team

You say those coins will be distributed over years but you don't say how. You could sell it, do other ICO's, you could give it away for free. All possibilities would mean pressure on the market - and again: That price is ridiculous high.



P.S.: Thanks for the slack-invite but I believe that things like that should be discussed in public.

And how will the 15 bn Coins be distributed over the years?

What kind of blockchain will this be? Is it a fork of another one and if yes which one, or new kind, which algo?

And why did you start an ICO without all these Infos, without a whitepaper? It's a honest question, since I really don't understand why a team would make such a move. I mean, you ask for patience while the ICO is already running since over a week what basically means, that you ask for money before you have done just the basic-work.

March 1:

If we calculate it with an average price of $0.03 per token and $920 for 1 BTC, it's:

7.68 * 920 = $7065

7065/0.03 = 235,520 token sold.

That is in percentage:

100/15,000,000,000 * 235,520 = 0.0016% ---> of the total supply they've sold until now.  

That's one reason why I called this "ridiculous".

Total "value" if they would sell just 1% of the supply: $4,500,000


And just btw, since there is nothing to find about the tech and the blockchain and the algo there is obviously also no specifics about inflation-rate etc. But let's say it would only be 1% of the total supply per year, it would be: 150,000,000

...while they have sold not even 240k until now!


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This is as crazy as Neucoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.0

Huge supply (but only 3bn) and huge inflation. I did the math in 2015 and said it would have zero chance and they called me "troll" and whatever. But it's abandoned and the most recent news is this:

"This market did not meet the volume requirements and is being evaluated for delisting on January 28th, 2017."

It's still there: https://www.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-NEU

Price is at 1 sat. Chart is this:

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/neucoin/


They've done an ICO and got about $1 million at that time (about 4000 BTC).

Whenever I see something that is full with blabla and nice pictures, but nothing meaningful and nothing about the tech but proof that the guys behind didn't even do the math, there is zero doubt that things will go wrong.

You don't act and communicate like an Investor who thinks about in what he invests. You act like somebody who wants to talk ppl into something and you defend this more than the OP - who was online while we began our little discussion but didn't say a word.

But see, I don't want to waste more of my time with this. So, good luck to all involved - while my advice is not to get involved.