So, almost the first (within 1 hr 40 min)
bitbet lost
no hash-rates posted
No hashing machine posted.
Alot of concerned looking faces in the pics.
Am I missing something?
check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittJ5PQe6IUand this album: http://imgur.com/a/336Ah#0both of them are taken by Orama from factory. and power consumption will be 1.4W/Gh maybe I missed something from today, but this seems important/interesting to me. Thanks for posting that. Nice video. I had no idea they had that kind of operation (but know nothing in this arena). Just curious, is BFL more of a mom and pop shop with lots of people doing lots of manual work? Just wondering how they are a year behind... |
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If they did that, they would have to compensate everyone. It's far to late to do that, they are quite likely barley treading water now. And if anything the first month(possibly something for the second month people(sliding scale would even be appropriate after first month)) buyers deserve it more than anyone. While BFL is shady, anyone that bought a unit at current prices, dug their own grave.
Well, BFL is going to feel pressure from many directions: Competitors - Watch what others do regarding offering insurance, more Ghash/s, etc. Customers - I don't imagine many repeat customers. Legal - The lawsuits are for sure on the way and with all Josh's talking, there is a lot of evidence out there. Listening to the interview on LTB with KNC Miner is telling. The part owner said something along the lines of "We wouldn't ship a unit if there wasn't going to be a good return on it. " I didn't get his words right but it was clear they aren't just "a hardware company" like Josh at BFL hid behind. Also, it looks like there 400Ghash/s units are going to ship with quite a bit more power. After all this with BFL, nothing, nada, regarding making things right with the customer. Well, that is if you don't count a credit towards a 600Ghash/s Monarch for January, I mean February, or is it March delivery now? BFL had a huge delay with the Jalapenos recently as they outsourced production (they said). We don't know the numbers of orders, but it is sure a coincidence that Jalapeno's are at a crawl for weeks now. I'm not sure Josh is shady, think he had good intentions initially, but to accept soooooooo many orders, to the point that they are a year behind, is just criminal, literally. That is plain bad business. IAS |
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Someone suggested that he could sell 10 boards minimum or 25 minimum so people can organize group buys. I think this is a good option for both burnin and customers.
This is a good idea, releasing Burnin from burden of dealing directly with customers. If 25 minimum is too small he can raise it to 100, it will be no problem for a group buy to organize with usual (up to 10%) organizer fee instead of high reseller margins. I don't think its that easy. I think there is a contract between seller and reseller, so that this will not happen... The reseller will not be very happy if the manufacturer directly sells to the end-customer... Contract ends October 15th, Burnin said so. Bingo, and how many here are waiting? Countdown clock anyone?   |
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I was also looking at these...but would it be enough to power one board?
I believe somewhere in this thread it's stated that one board uses 16watts I see one power supply from that link supplies 5000mA. so 12V * 5a = 60watts. Should be more than enough power for one. I wonder how those power supplies are regarding voltage regularity and ripple? I ask because it possibly can create problems when overclocking if the voltage is not consistent - cause more errors or the like. Anyway, I have 4 boards coming so don't think those are a possibility, connection wise, voltage is still ok. And then there are the fans to plug in as well. So far, the Super Flower Golden Green at 400 watts does great at low voltages. IAS |
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Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.
It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.
Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"
Sure, we will see  . We will (continue to) see what I and many others predicted a long, long time ago: overall bitcoin asics can only be (very) profitable for the vendors. Individual miners getting a profit from them will be a tiny lucky minority. Maybe you are a really smart guy (and creative and open minded as well). But I think Einstein was wrong on occasion as well.  Bookmarked  |
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Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point. yeah, because Ive been debating (and predicting) this since before the first asic was even announced, I think Ive heard all angles. If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing. Sure, they can (and will) lower prices per unit, but not to the point of obvious profitability without dramatically increasing demand. So either they must leave most of that demand unfulfilled or the increased supply will render the profitability moot again. Its quite simple, there is too much demand for unprofitable mining gear. The only thing you can do about that, is not buy any. Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear. There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway. It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line... I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again. Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see" |
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It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.
It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof. Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits. To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people. Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind... You dont get it. Plenty of miners seem to think current prices are "fair", or they wouldnt be buying. You expect a manufacturer to both lower their prices, and limit supply, only so that those miners would be guaranteed a profit (at their expense)? Get real. Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point. I am open to either and see possibilities. If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing. I am real. |
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It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.
It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof. Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits. To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people. Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind... |
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6 Serial Ports, So i get two extra hashing units because we did not get it in September And offcourse because i did not bash you like many here  Excuse my ignorance, but do the extra serial ports have anything to do with shipped hashing power (being extra) or? I wonder about the power of these units. Really, if KNCMiner wants to upend the industry (as I alluded to above), this would be how to do it. (Ship on time and with profitable units). |
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I can understand why KNC staff is happy about being able to deliver (unlimited amount) of stuff that brought them a nice amount of money. Failing to understand why people here are happy for being confirmed to receive a product that will no longer give a positive ROI, while being unable to cancel their orders.
We don't know how they will deliver the units (regarding upping the Ghash/s). If they indeed do that, then it puts the competition on its heels. Not sure if it was rumors or not regarding the 400 Ghash/s units being 500+. I think that is what the industry is waiting for. The closest we have come was maybe the erupter pricing being lowered, but even then, they weren't profitable. It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed. IAS |
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Getting closer, from the "Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com" thread  one proud Sammy |
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Well, this looks like good news. one proud Sammy |
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I'd like to keep things a bit "local" as well for Burnin.
Support him and try to get him to get most of the money for his work and not resellers. (No offense resellers, but that is my feeling.)
Perhaps there is another way as there is something special about DIY's and BTC.
I don't want to lose that.
I don't have big pockets but would love, in the near future to buy a 500 Euro or so miner from Burnin. Would be nice to make a small profit but would be happy to break even. Nice hobby and supports the network.
IAS
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But, I think KNC Miner is going to be ok. Trying to limit the number of miners produced was a nice first step.
When did they limit the number of miners produced? They have been trying to sell as many as possible. They are bidding thousands of dollars every week to advertise on this forum. They started a reseller program just a few weeks ago to get other people to sell their products for them. And if you listen to the interview with Sam posted a few pages back, he said if other asics manufacturers keep pumping out units (which they of course will), KNC wil continue to keep pumping out units (i.e. not taking the 3 months break they spoke about).They have done nothing to limit the number of miners produced - exactly the opposite. What IS limiting how many they can produce - - people are priced out of the market. People can afford a few gpu's, but a lot less can afford to have thousands tied up in pre-order for months. - people doing the maths on difficulty levels and realising they aren't going to make their money back. I was talking about the bolded. Thanks for the update and I haven't listened to the interview but was aware of the point you mentioned - heard it on the LTB podcast I believe. The next few days will be telling. I still have hope for the European companies like KNC Miner and Bitfury. The latter really limited September deliveries and I believe they delivered. Now, regarding limiting the amount of miners - 2 issues here. 1st - Limiting them regarding the above bolded and 2nd - Limiting them according to production limits. The 1st was a nice gesture, they did do that as ridiculous as it may have been as no one is expecting the competition to slow down (I do wonder if KNC had good intentions though). The 2nd, we don't know but will find out in time. Clearly here, these companies (hopefully) are not going to do what BFL did and is doing and just keep queues open and long. Really sad situation there. No arguing that the pre-order thing needs to be redone. It is nice to see some companies offering more GHash/s (KNC I think mentioned this, not sure) and some other companies are offering insurance or partial refunds. If miners are only offered when they are in stock, I hope there is a fair way of getting them. Not sure what that would be though... IAS |
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They had some September deliveries scheduled and then the October ones (and I think Nov as well). So, none of the September orders have been delivered/shipped yet?
Hoping...
IAS
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This thread went over very well over at the BFL forum. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/4943-how-about-upping-ghash-s-units-compensate-delays.htmlWant to get your opinions here. Josh made his presence felt but customers came out quoting him and basically put him and BFL in their place. The behavior of BFL and Avalon (Yifu here) is hopefully not a sign of things to come. KNC Miner is not even late but because of the hash rate jumping up, they are, according to them, upping the units significantly.
Other companies, a few, are offering forms of insurance (discounts, more Ghash/s, etc.) in exchange.
I think our units, many of them if not most, will not even break even with the continued delays.
I see Jalapeno's have only shipped 2 days worth since the end of August, this is right before the big jump in hash/difficulty is expected. The September promise is clearly gone.
The outsourced assembly, well, what can we say? Where is it? Not to sound hard, but this is unacceptable at this time, unless they plan on catching up in 2 weeks.
Some form of compensation to benefit both customers and BFL is really in order here.
I understand that BFL can't keep up with orders as it is and more Ghash/s wouldn't help them, but some form of compensation needs to be dealt out. And, with due respect, I don't mean a discount on a Monarch or the like.
BTC Helper |
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Noticed how BFL have suddenly picked up shipments the last couple of weeks, they have been shipping about 2 weeks worth of 50-60GH/s Single SC orders each day. That's a lot of GH/s they had thousands of those on pre-order. That will be a big part of the net hash increase we had this month, add KNCminer to that and omg.
yeah, I have also been curious of this new revelation as well. I think it confirms what I originally thought, that BFL has been withholding machines purposely to influence difficulty increase. now that the new kid on the block is getting close two competing, now they open the floodgates and let everybody have their 1 year late order in attempts 2 spike the difficulty and scare investors away from the competition. Is actually a pretty smart move business wise Huh? So instead of releasing units early which would increase BFL sales, decrease refunds, decrease lawsuits, and decrease competitor sales earlier they were holding back why? If they had been sitting around why not release all their units when KNC opened their order book? Let's face it, it's just taken this long for them to ramp up production to a reasonable level. If they were willing to ship out of line when people attempted chargebacks, they were probably also willing to accept 6 figure bribes to move MiniRigs out the back door when the difficulty was below 10m. I don't trust BFL one bit. Network protection for themselves while a tiny 20TH operation on the side is running is also possible. Or a combination of all of the above. I personally think the ASIC generation has screwed over the small miner for good. BFL was the last shot at making a decent return for yourself, but they kept it all. Now the difficulty is going to run away from everyone. If you can't build your own, you have no advantage. Why would people be honest and ship money printing boxes when there are so many sneaky things you could do with that? I'm not gonna jump the gun and say KnC is doing this, but people really need to be careful. I would get refunds if you can. There is just too much hashrate coming online now. November is many difficulty changes away. Well said. I really gave BFL the benefit of the doubt and for a long while. I read this thread and seeing the owner Josh try to defend himself (and attack others) as well as seeing people put him in his place with his own words, really helped me to see them for what they are. Title (LOL) - How about upping the Ghash/s on units to compensate for delays? https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/4943-how-about-upping-ghash-s-units-compensate-delays.htmlI understand people were/are trying to make money with the rigs (and also support the network, have a hobby, etc.) but seeing people having to wait over 1 year for their equipment is just sad. Basically, BFL shouldn't have taken so many pre-orders. I'm sure when this gets to court (and it will), we will see just how far over the line BFL went. I think we will see the same thing with Avalon and Yifu. But, I think KNC Miner is going to be ok. Trying to limit the number of miners produced was a nice first step. Better communication is another. We can only hope now for the next few days. But KNC, BitFury, etc. are in another class compared to BFL and Avalon. ( aka - Cutting off your nose to Spite your Face.) |
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Neil - If you recommend not doing the git pull as an update method, I won't. My miner still has another month or so to arrive and there is no sense in running some commands for not.
It is no problem to wait and just burn another image when released as I'm not even using that Pi yet. If I misunderstand just let me know, otherwise I'll wait.
Thanks for all your help (still giving you 15 mins with the erupters but you'll like the next rig much much more ;-)
Appreciated,
IAS
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In the next updated, supported for bitfury chips with bfgminer/cgminer (USB RedFury)?
Thanks for all
Beastlymac sent a 'preview' board to con from cgminer and con is working on it now (very smart of Beastlymac). So, while I wont have much to do with it, yes they will be supported so. All I have to do is;- git clone ./autogen.sh ./configure [bla bla bla] make make install git push  Neil Neil/anyone, I am running the following on my two Raspberry Pi's: MinePeon Version 0.2.3
Miner Version cgminer3.3.4 What is the best way to practice an update (on one of my Pi's) and do I just use the commands above? I'm going to use one of them for when my Bitburner (bitfury) miner arrives in a month or so and would like to practice the updates and such. Thanks, IAS |
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Very nice! With only one 24-pin connector per PSU, I gather half of those boards would need to be powered individually via molex? Does anyone know if we're able to plug the Drillbit boards into the 4-stack miniplane, but then use 4x molex and 4x USB cables to connect the boards individually? So just using the miniplane to physically secure the Drillbit boards. Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure the 4 boards plugged into a mini plane can be powered by one 4 pin molex. I hear there are different powered cables coming from the PS (Is that true and if so which one? 3, 5, 12v) And if you have 2 of the miniplanes plugged into a "backplane", then one plug should again work. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...See Barntechs post below. (Thanks for the correction. I saw guys mentioning the 4 pin molex and thought they scaled up. So, the large connectors are the ATX (and I think they give the voltage required) and they plug right into the backplane. Thanks...) IAS |
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