Ich habe heute diesen Newsletter (der leider nicht offen auf der Seite steht) erhalten und möchte den mal mit dem Verein und dem Rest des Forums teilen... [..]
Mir persönlich ist der ATM hier noch nicht ganz geheuer, zum einen wegen des vendor-lock und zum andren Weil die Ausgabe mit nur in einer Art von Scheinen doch etwas eingeschränkt und unflexibel ist. Eventuell sehen das andere ja anders. Berechtigter Hinweis. Erscheint mir wichtig genug, um einen eigenen Thread aufzumachen? Ente |
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Does anyone know what the "partially filled at x%" means? No idea what the "x%" refers to.
"x%" means the theoretical annual rate. Just another (old) version for the regular "y%" daily rate. Ente |
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I think that laszlo should get free pizza once per week for lifetime either from a pizzeria as a promotion or from wealthy bitcoiners (me not included, i sold it all in 2011  If we find a reliable and trustworthy mechanism for this - I'm in! Ente |
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So this thread is about a bunch of Bitcoin old timers who have got stuck with thousands of BTC in Gox trying to unload the coins on someone else in Gox that is willing to bear the risk???
So old time coiners trying to dupe new blood into taking on their dead coin balance in Bitcoin, did i get that right?
This thread somehow is creepy to me.
I think it's the opposite: "Old timers" knew for months to stay clear of MtGox. "New blood" is probably easier to impress and to set in panic. It's them selling cheap GoxCoins to the smart veterans. /runs for cover Ente |
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I just realized that if I borrow against the flash return rate (automatic when opening a position), then it doesn't even lock the rate - it varies it according to the market while my position is open. That must be the most counter-intuitive "feature" I've ever encountered!
When you open a position and have no liquidity reserved before, you will automatically take the best rates available. If the current variable rate is lower than the best fixed rate offer, you take that one. Of course, the variable rate is adjusted all the time. For the last weeks, it actually went down. You can, at any time, take additional liquidity manually, and close used funds to swap them. For example to use better rates or replace variable rates with fixed rates. If you just close some contracts (aka loans) without having liquidity reserved before, you will simply take the best available offer to replace the closed funds. Once you get the hang of it, it all works pretty well. Learn with smaller playmoney to reduce risks of unforseen effects in the beginning. Ente |
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Also, I don't see any need to add filters or different views. All info is there: rate, fixed/variable, time. It's even sorted by rate. There are a lot of days when two-day lending offers completely swarm everything else, and somebody looking to borrow a large amount for 30 days, can only see a few offers, not the whole picture. Having a filter would not harm anybody. The options could be e.g. "all", "2-7 days" and "8-30 days". In that way, those who like the current view, could continue using it. From Bitfinex's point of view, this would be beneficial, as it helps connecting borrowers with lenders. There would still be just one orderbook, but alternative ways to view it. If that is to be implemented, I won't complain! :-) Ente |
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It's basic economics guys, the rate is dictated by the market. It will always find it's level where it is both low enough for traders and high enough for lenders. That level will constantly be shifting.
The flash return rate option is anything but market, and how much money is currently at the flash return rate? If it's a lot, then that means the interest rate is determined by the few who lend / borrow at fixed rate. Here are my proposals once again for changing flash return rate option. Treat it like a market order, it'll hit everything on the "liquidity request" until there's nothing left with unfilled amount returned. Completely cancel that option, one must lend at at fixed rate (my preferred approach). A limited version of above, flash return rate is only available as long as it compose less than 10% of the lending market. (you want 90% turn out rate in the 'vote' for interest rate) Re-do the FRR calculation, instead of calculating base on all fixed rate loan, the top 10% and the bottom 10% of fixed rate loans are ignored for calculation purposes to avoid manipulation, and borrower at FRR needs to pay some markup base on BTC / USD volatility and lending duration. The beautiful thing is: You can't manipulate the system and gain from it! Sure, you could provide a lot of funds at very low or very high rates, maybe even to yourself. But you'll lose out on real fees from real people if you would instead provide liquidity to them, andyou always pay some percentage to the platform. There won't be that much more variable rate liquidity out there than fixed rate. In fact, I guess there's more fixed than variable rate. Finally, noone's forcing anybody. If the variable rate is too low for your taste, put up a fixed offer for a higher rate. Easy. If you're not too far from the consensus of the other providers, your offer will be taken up eventually. If everybody else believes a much lower rate is acceptable, well, then you're out of luck for now.. It's always both sides anyway - a higher variable rate, or fixed rate, doesn't mean that the takers agree to that and take the offers. Ente |
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It's basic economics guys, the rate is dictated by the market. It will always find it's level where it is both low enough for traders and high enough for lenders. That level will constantly be shifting.
Exactly that. Sure, from your side, as a liquidity provider, it's bad rates. I, as a liquidity taker, like the rates. It's whatever 'the market' decides. I see no need for manipulating this anywhere. If the rates were higher, in these bearish times, I would stop taking liquidity altogether and close my position. This would free a lot of liquidity, lowering the average rate. Besides: 30% p.a. was the regular rate back then too, when the market was calm. Now, the market is pretty awful for going long. 30% isn't that bad, for having virtually no exchangerate risk. Also, I don't see any need to add filters or different views. All info is there: rate, fixed/variable, time. It's even sorted by rate. I see with one look what the current rates are, and naturally the lowest rates are for the lowest runtime. Heck, when entering a too high offer, I automatically take the lowest offers until I have all funds! With the right runtime too. What's there that would need fixing? It's all working well! Ente |
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Hehe, didn't know that u made the first gpu miner, that is pretty amazing! If any of you could go back in time and had the mining power to mine as much btc as you wanted to, when would you stop mining, knowing the price will end up at 1250 in 4 years? When would you have enough btc to not give a fuck anymore? kind of an ethical question. Now the juicy part: He developed a GPU miner as (one of) the first. Having a hundredfold advantage over everyone else, and over the difficulty. He didn't mine the heck out of it, he made it open source, available for everybody! I heard from one person who bought a house with their pizza bitcoins, indirectly, by trading it for cash first. Apparently it was a lot of hassle with the bank due to AML and just their general distaste for currencies they don't control. I wish I could say I did the same, but the pizza didn't appreciate the same way as the bitcoins Why don't you do a Reddit AMA? I'm sure you would get a tonne of Bitcoin donations. And Dogecoins as well.  +1000! Ente |
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hey friend donate please 1M8KE3KHJx6ACdQDqaMFYDBbyEkbdp85d2  Stop that, or you will be banned in no time. Ente |
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Thanks for the kind words guys. The pizza thing was a lot more popular than I thought so I made good on as many trades as I could. Other than a little bit of single digit change, I spent everything I mined. As you all know, the difficulty rises to adjust to hashing power, so eventually the mining wasn't worth it for me. GPU mining BTC in 2010!??
As far as I know I was the first to release a GPU miner. I contributed the hash meter back then too, that's what the screen shot was all about. I used to maintain the Mac OS builds but others have taken that up now. It was a fun project and I learned all about OpenCL. I can't find the thread on the forum anymore but you can find it in my web dir ( http://eclipse.heliacal.net/~solar/bitcoin/sha256.cl ). That was back in May 2010. Maybe there were other people who were doing it in private too, though. For a long time I had been looking for a reason to learn how to write a shader, and this was a great project for it. The way I looked at it, I was helping out with an open source project, and I was making pizza with my code. You guys will laugh now but I mined everything with an nvidia 9800 GTX+ on Mac OS (hackintosh, another scene I used to help out in). I ended up getting 2 AMD Radeon 5970s with the bitcoins I was mining, but at the time, the OpenCL libraries from AMD and nvidia both were really buggy and I never got it to work right on more than one GPU. The same code that would work on the nvidia on linux wouldn't work on windows and vice versa. I was trying to make a generic OpenCL miner that everyone could run on all 3 platforms, and I spent months tweaking different kernels for each GPU, but I was also working two jobs at the time and so I never finished it. I ended up just leaving bitcoin on the back burner for a few years, then it exploded and people started asking me about the pizza trades. Every time the value goes up on exchanges, people email me asking me to comment on it, but really there isn't much more to tell than what I explained here. This is the old GPU mining release I made for Mac OS, probably won't work anymore though: http://eclipse.heliacal.net/~solar/bitcoin/Bitcoin-MacOSX-Intel-svn-75-opencl-2010-05-10.dmgWow! I didn't know much more from you than the infamous pizza story. It all happened way before my time. Well, in case you don't want to be seen as kind of a tragic bitcoin hero: you already have more credibility than, lets say, MtGox and many of the other big bitcoin businesses. I don't know what your personal interests are these days, but whatever you do - a professional exchange, a meta-protocol, hardware, a foundation - you can be sure of a *lot* of attention. With what I already knew of you, and the little I read now, I already stand behind you fully. In case you ever need a bunch of geeks standing behind you :-) (I hope you don't understand this wrong. Financial success isn't the most important thing. But you sure deserve it) Ente |
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It's great to have you back, laszlo!
Only stupid people would call you stupid.
You, sir, onehandedly started the real bitcoin economy.
It doesn't matter how many coins you had or have. You had vision, and you are part of history.
Hats off to you!
Ente
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I got 1Enjoy and 1Sochi today on my address posted on my sig (which I now removed) so they are definitely scraping from here, though probably not here alone. Solution to not get tagged: If you don't want some anonymous actor to know which addresses you control, it's best to get rid of those keys or move those dust transactions out of your wallet. One way to do that is by using Dust-B-Gone. A script written by Peter Todd, one of the bitcoin core developers. It takes those transactions and sends them to his server where they are all combined and spent in a transaction with a 0btc output, effectively giving the dust to the miners. If you are weary of connecting to his server directly, it has the option of connecting through TOR. Dust-B-Gone can be found here: https://github.com/petertodd/dust-b-goneI've used it myself not too long ago and works like a charm. You may have to set the dust limit to 0.001 BTC for it to find the transaction(s). You can run it initially as a dry run by specifying --dry-run and it'll show you a raw dump of the transaction it'll send out. More information can be found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317233.msg3413785#msg3413785Aww, I like this! He didn't send the dust to himself, or back to the owner, or to a black hole, he send it to the miners! Yep, I like this guy! Ente |
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Another theory. I'm not sure about this: just want to run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it. If you look at brainwallets, you'll see that they can be incredibly insecure. A lot of people treat them like email and use bad passwords. It makes them vulnerable to people guessing them. What if you used a dictionary to generate private keys and addresses, then sent a small amount of bitcoins - say 0.0000546 - to each address. A week later you run the same script and hoover up your coins, plus any others that happen to be sitting in an address you have 'guessed' right. I don't know why you'd do it this way. Maybe you're a lazy coder, or something. But that appears to be what someone has done. Do a brainwallet address search for speculator, speculating, spectator, spectacles, etc, and you'll see what I mean. 0.0000546 bitcoins goes into the account, a week later out it goes. Looks like someone is running dictionary attacks with words over a certain length. (Just so we're clear, I found this out through research into brainwallets and general curiosity, not to steal bitcoins from badly-secured wallets. I can't prove this but suffice to say I probably wouldn't post this warning if I was. ) *** People who have received dust payments: are you using a brainwallet? If so, consider it insecure and move your coins ASAP. *** Like I said, not sure whether this is right or not. But something weird is going on with dictionary-generated brainwallet addresses. Alternatively, I'd love to know any other theories as to why someone would send 0.0000546 bitcoins to a bunch of dictionary addresses.... any answers? Good theory - but unprobable because of two things: 1) you can, as a "brainwallet harvester", create random private keys, calculate the public address to this, and look up on the blockchain if there is any money on that. If yes - sweep it away immediately. All public addresses with funds on them would be in a huge database, everything would be done completely offline. 2) because of this, more generally speaking:  3) bonus: I received dust, it was on an address I published somewhere, on the forums or something like that. Unrelated: I did a test and sent a small amount to a brainwallet address with a weak passphrase. It was sweeped like some hours later. Ente |
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Can you adjust the margin trading "fix" for the infinite orders? Now I can only put buys for as much coins I have in my short, but I can't do a buy for 100 btc @ 50$ for example. Can only put enough buys to close my short, but not to open a long.
Thanks Indirectly, You just answered my question,  Confirmed: You can close your "long" when selling BTCs in the "Margin Trade" tab. I believe the position is still there, with "0", but with no loans and (hopefully) a profit left over. Ente |
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lulz I just realized Mt Gox could buy its user's goxBTC for less realBTC and come up with an insane profit  Heh! :-) Ente |
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Oh, wow!
This is.. just wow.
It explains pretty much everything, this seems very plausible for me.
Thank you for your analysis.
Oh, and great to have you here, Rick!
Ente
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I gave this whole "breaker" thing another thought.
As was written already, I believe this would work well:
- monitor average exchange rates from other exchanges
- when BitFinex rate goes x% (10 to 20%?) from the average, do:
- all margin calls on hold, pegged to maximum x% difference
- manually closing and trading still possible, with a huge red warning
- infobox on all pages for everyone to see
- optional mailalert to traders who want this, so they can add liquidity and profit
- mandatory wake-up-call for Raphy and Giancarlo :-P
The x% maximum spread rule would stop a complete meltdown, but shouldn't risk lenders money, as the "real" exchangerate is even better than the current run-away rate on BitFinex.
The most important thing is to stop the run-away condition. Second priority would be to quickly fill the orderbook, by alarming users maybe.
Also I like the idea to make BitStamp trades more expensive and BitFinex trades less expensive, fee-wise. This should strengthen the internal orderbook to reduce the overall risk.
Finally, I'd suggest to have a maximum leverage of 1:2 at all times. Maybe as an average between all users. There will be users who have less than 1:2 leverage, so others are allowed to have a slightly larger one.
All in all, you guys did a good job! Other ventures would already be long gone, after the things happening in Bitcoin world.
I don't like what happened. But I feel the platform and the people behind it went out stronger from this. I, certainly, went out slightly smarter from this.
Ente
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hahaha goxBTC to BTC exchange ... 10 out of 10 for entertainment value - love the idea joshbb!
.....
But the real reason I'm posting here is this - imagine this hypothetical scenario:
1) someone buys goxBTC for real BTC
2) the seller of goxBTC is later found by MtGox to have cheated them by exploiting the current technical bug (withdrew BTC from Gox but then was reimbursed by Gox for what they thought was a "failed" transaction) and then sold the reimbursed goxBTC to an unsuspecting buyer for real BTC.
3) Gox go through all the customer account balances and delete the non-existent goxBTC from all accounts as part of their current fix
Possible? - Yes!
Probable? - Yes!
Does the buyer loose their acquired fraudulent goxBTC? - possibly!!!
Ouch! If what MtGox says is true, this scenario is quite likely. If MtGox is full of shit and the maeelability bug, known since 2011, is not the real reason - good luck with your new, 'cheap' Goxcoins. The real trainwreck might still come.. Ente |
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Hey guys! I saw this thread and got to thinking.. this could be a whole lot easier if somebody just made an actual exchange between "Real" BTC and "Gox" BTC! So I did! Since my https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/ site had fallen into a little bit of disuse (I made it two years ago... back then it was for using dwolla to automatically buy bitcoins on mtgox!), over the last two days I've re-purposed it to exactly this purpose. And now it's ready to launch! Advantages of this over using this thread: 1. People who want to sell gox btc, you know any offers in the order book are legit and will execute immediately. No need for constant PMing and hoping the person willing to buy your gox btc is online right now and still willing to honor their post! 2. People who want to buy gox btc, you can now accept any size order without it being any work for you. Just place your limit order and forget about it. 3. As the exchange, I am a trusted "escrow" service all in one.. no more sending small amounts piece-by-piece/skyping/etc. (I can be considered "trusted" as a long time member of bitcoin talk.. I'm Josh Jones, founder of DreamHost, the Los Angeles Bitcoin Meetup, ChunkHost.com, BitMadness.com, 310-570-COIN, and so on!) Note: there's a 2% transaction fee for all trades on bitcoinbuilder, and to be safe your withdrawal BTC addresses (one for "Real" BTC and one for your "Gox" BTC... must be a mtgox deposit address!) are permanently set and locked once you put them in. Also, all withdrawals are processed manually by me, once daily at (around) 11pm PST. That's because no coins are kept on the server at all, and you know, just to be super safe! So, go check it out! I hope it makes sense and you find it useful. It seems to me like it should be somewhat at least! Thanks, josh! Heh, now that's the funniest kind of an exchange! :-) No offense to you, all offense to MtGox! I wish you good luck - and to everyone involved in this situation. Does anyone know if this will work for unverified accounts? (I am _not_ going to let them extort a pile of my personal info just to free my BTC!)
Well, before, you didn't need to be verified to transfer Bitcoins in and out. I didn't hear otherwise, and I guess they are busy with other things now instead of changing KYC games.. You should be all fine. Ente |
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