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1041  Local / Biete / Re: [Gruppenkauf] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 bestellt (geschlossen) on: September 03, 2013, 08:25:20 PM
wenn Du das System noch weiter verfeinerst und stark automatisierst kannst Du den "Refunder" als neuen Berufsstand etablieren.  Grin

Unbedingt!
Wenn ich über 1000 Bitcoin refunden müsste würde ich das sehr gerne für nen Bitcoin jemanden anderes machen lassen.. Zahlendreher, falsch formatierte Zeile, Spaßvögel die falsche Werte mailen.. Und das Ganze mit einer anonymen, nicht-reversiblen Währung in nem pseudonymen Forum? Gruseliger als jeder Krimi! lol

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1042  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 on: September 03, 2013, 01:34:05 PM
As yifu already said - only way to get back up is just do no more preorders...

..and I think everyone involved wholeheartly agrees to that ;-)

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1043  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 on: September 03, 2013, 12:05:33 PM
I saw an address listed in this thread for his cell #. I'd pay him a visit, hes a 30 minute train ride away if thats actually an address thats his. Who knows...

What for?
He (I guess you are talking about Yifu) has paid refunds, and promised to send a truckload of chips tomorrow. For what it's worth.
If I would give him a visit, I'd bring some beer, congratulate him for finally doing sane budiness decisions, and listening to his story of what actually went wrong.
I guess I'm a forgiving person, once I see someone tries to set things right, huh?

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I'm forgiving too but you are in error.  Yifu has not fixed all the issues and he still has btc from trade ins and over half the trade ins he has not added.  This is ~five months later.  secondly he has still not refunded all the late chip buys.

You are right, totally.
The situation is not cleared yet, and Yifu/Bitsyncom/Avalon has a long way to restore their credibility.
However their behavior changed to the better, finally, and they do refund the chips at least. Which goes a long way, on my side, to give them some space to get *everything* in order.
I have no problem with a healthy lynchmob, right? But if there was no ninja-killercommando until now, for months of awfulness, why do it *now*?

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1044  Local / Biete / Re: [Gruppenkauf] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 bestellt (geschlossen) on: September 03, 2013, 12:00:38 PM
ich frag mich gerade wieso es nur 95% und nicht 99 oder 99,9% zurück gibt?

Vorallem wie ist eigentlich die rechtliche Lage gegen den Lieferanten?


..weil nur 90% von deinem Einsatz refundet wurden, von Avalon. Die anderen 10% sind die Bezahlung für Sebastian, so wie im OP geschrieben. Sebastian hat seine Arbeit wie abgemacht (und hervorragend!) gemacht. Wenn du immernoch, wie vereinbart, Chips haben willst, bekommst du die auch. Weil Sebastian ein herzensguter Mensch ist, schenkt er uns die Hälfte seines Einkommens.

Und warum überhaupt 10%?
--> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285966.0

Und die rechtliche Lage mit Avalon?
Die haben es im großen Stil verkackt, vielleicht auch grenzwertig zum wissentlichen Betrug. Ist aber in der Praxis ziemlich egal, weil man kaum eine Chance hat jemanden in China, von hier aus, wegen "Vertragsbruch" ranzukriegen. Und dann: welcher Vertrag? und welcher Schaden, wenn die Summe erstattet wurde? (Ja, ja, aber erklär das mal dem.. Richter? Wem überhaupt?)

Ich persönlich bin froh dass der Spuk vorbei ist. 5% Lehrgeld für die Lektion, dass ein Preorder über Monate bei noch experimenteller Hardware, die extrem zeitkritisch ist, ohne Vertrag in China, naja, riskant ist.. ;-)

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hmm ich seh das mit den 10% gar nicht.
weder in der der Mail von avalon noch auf der Seite wo man hinkommt wenn man storniert.



Direkt hier im OP:


5. Rückerstattungen
Bestellungen sind bindend nachdem mit den Bitcoins ein Batch bestellt wurde.

10. Preise
A: Es gibt einen Aufschlag von 9.9% für meine Nerven, als Risikoabsicherung. Die 10T Chips kosten insgesamt 782.1BTC, was einen Wiederverkaufspreis von 0.086BTC / chip bedeutet.


Und das mit den Nerven von Sebastian.. müssen wir nicht drüber reden, oder? ;-)

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1045  Economy / Speculation / Re: #1 most popular Bitcoin Price Forecasts (subscribe here: bitcoinbullbear.com) on: September 03, 2013, 11:36:36 AM
new short term analysis issued to subscribers: Caution

caution: don't walk into the bear trap?

Either way: It's a trap!
(just like always?)

I really have to unsubscribe this thread. S3052 creates more tension than Hitchcock here!

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/subscribe
1046  Local / Biete / Re: [Gruppenkauf] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 bestellt (geschlossen) on: September 03, 2013, 11:34:59 AM
ich frag mich gerade wieso es nur 95% und nicht 99 oder 99,9% zurück gibt?

Vorallem wie ist eigentlich die rechtliche Lage gegen den Lieferanten?


..weil nur 90% von deinem Einsatz refundet wurden, von Avalon. Die anderen 10% sind die Bezahlung für Sebastian, so wie im OP geschrieben. Sebastian hat seine Arbeit wie abgemacht (und hervorragend!) gemacht. Wenn du immernoch, wie vereinbart, Chips haben willst, bekommst du die auch. Weil Sebastian ein herzensguter Mensch ist, schenkt er uns die Hälfte seines Einkommens.

Und warum überhaupt 10%?
--> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285966.0

Und die rechtliche Lage mit Avalon?
Die haben es im großen Stil verkackt, vielleicht auch grenzwertig zum wissentlichen Betrug. Ist aber in der Praxis ziemlich egal, weil man kaum eine Chance hat jemanden in China, von hier aus, wegen "Vertragsbruch" ranzukriegen. Und dann: welcher Vertrag? und welcher Schaden, wenn die Summe erstattet wurde? (Ja, ja, aber erklär das mal dem.. Richter? Wem überhaupt?)

Ich persönlich bin froh dass der Spuk vorbei ist. 5% Lehrgeld für die Lektion, dass ein Preorder über Monate bei noch experimenteller Hardware, die extrem zeitkritisch ist, ohne Vertrag in China, naja, riskant ist.. ;-)

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1047  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: September 03, 2013, 10:59:35 AM
..one more question about training stop orders:

In case of a trailing stop, will the sell price be lowered when the exchange rate slowly goes down? Or will the trailing stop price be monotonous, like always rising or at least staying the same?

How fast, how often, when, is the price updated? With every trade, or the average of x minutes, or the high of y minutes?

And now the tough question:
With a trailing stop order, I am guaranteed to eventually catch a dib down. And, once I use a trailing stop, and it is executed, I can guarantee the price will rebound. If I don't use any "security net", the same dib will prove to be ste beginning of a ten-year downtrend. What do?  Cheesy

Ente

Hello Ente,

So, no the price of a trailing stop sell order will never go down. It is updated with each tick: if the tick is higher than the previous, the trailing stop price is updated higher. If the tick is lower, the trailing stop price stays the same. Until the order is eventually triggered like a normal stop order.

For your last question, I would say the best thing to do is to set the price distance high enough to avoid small dip. Of course, it make the losses higher, but avoid you false dip. It is a balance that you have to find depending on what you are comfortable with.

On other news, you can see that recently we broke our record of lent dollars, and the rate is very high. Don't miss this opportunity, traders need your dollars!

have a nice day all
Raphael
Bitfinex team

Thank you for your explanation, Raphael!

Yes, 100 to 200% (insured!) rates are pretty insane! And lucrative :-)

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1048  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: September 03, 2013, 09:14:12 AM
Thank you all, I don't think I have any reason to not trust Bitfinex.

I don't know how experienced you are, Tamis. I would suggest to trade with 10% of your Bitcoins only, for a start. And maybe with a token amount only until you figure out how all those functions work. They are all well documented, but you still has to wrap your head around them. And then there are details, like for example "what lending gets automatically closed when I sell?" which you simply have to try out. With 0.01 BTC for example.
So, no, I don't see BitFinex as the risk here, we ourselves are the risk for our Bitcoins ;-)

Seeing how bullish the market is I don't think I really risk anything at the time being !  I went to Bitfinex to get stop orders I couldn't use on Bitstamp.
I entered at 86$ stop is a 123ish.

Nice! :-)

Question about stop-loss in general:
Lets say I have a large volume margin position, and enter a stop loss. When exactly is it executed? Like, for example, stop loss at 123, at a volume of 1000 BTC? There would not be enough volume at 123. Would the system start at 126 BTC/USD exchange rate, so it closed the position when reaching 123? Or would it start closing at 123, which might not finish selling until the exchange rate dropped to 120?

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Ente

The stop loss would be triggered at 123 USD, more specifically if the bid is at 123 for a sell stop, if the ask is at 123 for a buy stop.
So yes, you can have some slippage if the order is large enough, because it's impossible to calculate the depth beforehand.

I hope that helps

Have a good sunday

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

..one more question about training stop orders:

In case of a trailing stop, will the sell price be lowered when the exchange rate slowly goes down? Or will the trailing stop price be monotonous, like always rising or at least staying the same?

How fast, how often, when, is the price updated? With every trade, or the average of x minutes, or the high of y minutes?

And now the tough question:
With a trailing stop order, I am guaranteed to eventually catch a dib down. And, once I use a trailing stop, and it is executed, I can guarantee the price will rebound. If I don't use any "security net", the same dib will prove to be ste beginning of a ten-year downtrend. What do?  Cheesy

Ente
1049  Local / Biete / Re: [Gruppenkauf] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 bestellt (geschlossen) on: September 03, 2013, 08:52:22 AM
Refund erhalten, vielen Dank!
Ich hoffe du, Sebastian, kannst trotzdem (irgend)ein positives Fazit aus der Geschichte ziehen?
Zumindest eine kleine Aufwandsentschädigung, einen LKW voll Credibility in der Community, und ein paar neue Erfahrungen und Skills ;-)

Ich zücke den Hut, großer Respekt für die Professionalität!

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Einen drei stelligen BTC Betrag als Gewinn bei einer Rückerstattung ist schon ein bischen mehr als eine kleine Aufwandsentschädigung.
aber 95% zurück ist besser als totalverlust.

..ich weiß schon warum ich diese Worte wählte:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285966.0
;-)

Und nein, ich werde nicht, mal eben so, leichtfertig, einen GB organisieren. Auch nicht für einen dreistelligen Betrag.

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1050  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] LocalBitcoins.com - a location-based bitcoin to cash marketplace on: September 03, 2013, 08:49:49 AM
They should start by doing a deal over OTC while authed, get rated on OTC, then link OTC to LB. I guess you can ask the person on OTC to sign a message with their OTC key and message it to you over LB, verify it yourself, then you rate them on OTC...

I fully agree, this would be the normal and right way.
An easy shortcut would be to simply list their linked OTC handle, or a tiny "OTC" icon which links to it. ;-)
This probably saves some time for people, and costs just little time to implement.
If not, no big deal. I'll just wait for what Jeremias thinks of this :-)

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1051  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 on: September 03, 2013, 08:30:47 AM
I saw an address listed in this thread for his cell #. I'd pay him a visit, hes a 30 minute train ride away if thats actually an address thats his. Who knows...

What for?
He (I guess you are talking about Yifu) has paid refunds, and promised to send a truckload of chips tomorrow. For what it's worth.
If I would give him a visit, I'd bring some beer, congratulate him for finally doing sane budiness decisions, and listening to his story of what actually went wrong.
I guess I'm a forgiving person, once I see someone tries to set things right, huh?

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1052  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] LocalBitcoins.com - a location-based bitcoin to cash marketplace on: September 03, 2013, 08:27:56 AM
People who have OTC IDs like me ( https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/TheButterZone/ ) have to link them to LB via signing a one time pass with their OTC BTC address. There are some scammer bastards pretending to be in OTC like randomcat (fake) is to random_cat (real).

Yep!
But even when they linked their existing OTC handle to their LB profile, I believe it's not displayed until the OTC has a rating. Then you see the OTC handle and, well, the rating..

Maybe I'm doing it wrong and simply never stumbled upon a LB profile with OTC, but no OTC rating yet?

I dunno here.. Does anyone have such an account?

Ente

Cart before the horse. Why link your account before you have anything to show?

Because is want to give them a rating!
..and to receive a rating back, of course ;-)
The normal web-of-trust-thingie.

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1053  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] LocalBitcoins.com - a location-based bitcoin to cash marketplace on: September 03, 2013, 12:02:41 AM
People who have OTC IDs like me ( https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/TheButterZone/ ) have to link them to LB via signing a one time pass with their OTC BTC address. There are some scammer bastards pretending to be in OTC like randomcat (fake) is to random_cat (real).

Yep!
But even when they linked their existing OTC handle to their LB profile, I believe it's not displayed until the OTC has a rating. Then you see the OTC handle and, well, the rating..

Maybe I'm doing it wrong and simply never stumbled upon a LB profile with OTC, but no OTC rating yet?

I dunno here.. Does anyone have such an account?

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1054  Local / Biete / Re: [Gruppenkauf] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 bestellt (geschlossen) on: September 02, 2013, 11:56:10 PM
Refund erhalten, vielen Dank!
Ich hoffe du, Sebastian, kannst trotzdem (irgend)ein positives Fazit aus der Geschichte ziehen?
Zumindest eine kleine Aufwandsentschädigung, einen LKW voll Credibility in der Community, und ein paar neue Erfahrungen und Skills ;-)

Ich zücke den Hut, großer Respekt für die Professionalität!

Ente
1055  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] LocalBitcoins.com - a location-based bitcoin to cash marketplace on: September 02, 2013, 06:58:04 PM
Any way to see someone's OTC ID, even when that person doesn't have any OTC ratings yet?
It's hard to give someone the first rating that way ;-)
(Or did I really not find a *single* person with OTC and no rating yet? Come on, nerd community!)

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1056  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: September 02, 2013, 07:59:36 AM
This process all sounds super exciting!
Great work, I can't wait for all the goodies there'll be soon! :-)

Armory, fck yeah!

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1057  Local / Biete / Re: Netzteil 12V / 82A Intersse? on: September 01, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Habe mir ein paar Bilder angekuckt: Da muss man erstmal die Kabel auf die Platine löten, oder kann man sich unter dem Gehäuse direkt an die Kabel hängen?

Gute Frage..
Da du, Bernd, wohl aus der RC-Richtung kommst, hast du das mit dem "Netzteil ohne Last betreiben" sicher im Griff.
Als Anschluss ist normalerweise tatsächlich nur ein Platinenkontakt vorgesehen? Bei 82A? Erstaunlich!
Irgendwo gibt es sicher einen dicken Lötpunkt wo man dicke Kabel anschließen kann. Oder haut "Kabel an Platinenkontakt anlöten" in der Praxis tatsächlich hin?

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1058  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary on: September 01, 2013, 01:13:06 PM
Like anyone would buy any second gen avalon.... let's keep this on track.  99% of the community want a refund because they only wanted to profit.  1% just want to do research to secure the network.

this is where we stand.

All numbers in statistics are subject to bias.

It started with greed when people entered numbers in miningcalculators and saw a 100% ROI in weeks.
Now we are at fear to even ROI or get the investment back.

In 2 weeks most of the dust will have settled. Yifu is obviously doing stuff now, fast and direct.

In 2 more weeks people will enter numbers in miningcalculators again.

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1059  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Break even difficulty by hardware efficiency (power cost = value of BTC) on: September 01, 2013, 01:08:18 PM
I doubt even that will happen with ASICs. With GPUs, people had other uses for them. With ASICs, lots of people are not even aware of their consumption and they don't have any other usage for them. I don't think they will track the price so tightly if at all... but I guess we will eventually find out when we get closer to break-even.

I think it's highly unlikely that people will order custom hardware like ASICs to mine BTC and NOT track the power consumption and do the math (unless they are the kind of customers BFL got where Josh was laughing at them buying items where they had no clue what it did)

There's also lots of people with "free" electricity (as in, someone else pays for it). For instance my rent includes bill within a certain usage. I run ASICs and honestly I don't look at their consumption (well, I did just for curiosity, but I'm not tracking it).

This is rather common in Europe and Asia.

Obviously these are not going to be big operations, but many people can add up to be significant. Depends on how decentralised mining ends up being for the next few years.

Actually you gave me a new point of view on this: Maybe those "exploiting free energy" people will be the only ones keeping us from a centralized mining environment? Big projects will drive small projects out of business, but those "free energy" guys can only do small operations before they will have trouble..

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1060  Local / Biete / Re: Netzteil 12V / 82A Intersse? on: September 01, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
Woah, 82A!
..behalte ich mal im Hinterkopf! :-)
/subscribier

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Jup, aber so viel Strom bringen alle 1000 Watt Netzteile. Die Servernetzteile haben halt den Vorteil, dass man keine künstliche Last wie bei einem normalen PC-Netzteil anschließen muss. Außerdem hat man keine 100te Kabel am Netzteil hängen sondern genau die, die man anlötet und braucht. Find ich angenehmer.

Btw. ich verwende so ein Teil auch im Modellbau um Akkus zu laden.

Grüße, Bernd

Ja, stimmt, das vergesse ich gerne.. 1kw Netzteile sind schon ne Ansage.
Natürlich haben deine Netzteile den Vorteil von 24/7 Betrieb. Server-Profi-Hardware eben, und keine auf billig ausgelegte Chinaböller.

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