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641  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 11:16:05 AM
i also think he wanted to promote NEM with socketpuppet accounts but IMO it was a wrong approach from the start,

This is not true that he did only early. He also claimed Nxt AE stake with one his sock puppet account (others are unknown). Did anyone even check if he cashed that?
642  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 11:14:27 AM
We have already gone through multiple series of taint analysis. We have moved past that stage and should now be concerned with marketing and development.

As a stakeholder of Nem I would like to ask & know:  how many stakes does UP hold?



Well ignoring the sock puppets for a second, he was already getting more than 50
643  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 11:11:16 AM
We have already gone through multiple series of taint analysis. We have moved past that stage and should now be concerned with marketing and development.

As a stakeholder of Nem I would like to ask:  how many stakes does UP hold?


None knows for sure. He did remove 1 that was uncovered during the recent fallout and he told me that the others were removed during the audit.
If true he owns 1 stake + what he get's as founder and for his work.
He also said that he never meant to cash out any of them anyway.

It's up the you if you're going to believe this or not. Think about what happend though. Mistakes were uncovered and he immediately stepped down. That doesn't sound like someone who was just in it for the money. He could have left with all the raised funds months ago.

They key here is If true

Do you trust him given he flatly lied about it until he got caught by his own mistake?

I don't think UP should get nothing, but should he get the same percentage of developer stake as before the scandal? No punishment whatsoever?

644  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: NEM's leader utopianfuture RETIRED after mistake posting w. sockpuppet acc on: June 13, 2014, 11:01:41 AM
Its a conspiracy if it would true then NEM starts to be a serious rival of NXT while NXT trust of initial stakeholders is holding still most of NXT coins. So some of them may behave hostile to NEM because NEM has a big potential to threaten the NXT. And the most hated should logically be the founder of NEM project. They were waiting while people started buying stakes because it made NXT price growing. Now people are almost cashing out NXTs. This is not my theory, this is a theory of my job collegue but it seems to be working. So now has come the best time to start a tongue-offensive.

EDIT: IT seems that CfA explained the situation in many other threads. These ideas seem to be wrong also.

You do realize that UP, Jaguar, BloodyRookie, gimre all had some involvement with Nxt and most Nxt users knew about Nem project immediately and are stakeholders?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404321.0

Plus it's on Nxt AE so some Nxt whales bought even more stakes (some of them have over 10 stakes now).

There is absolutely no interest for them to see Nem fail as that would mean losing potential profits.

Nxt early stakeholders already made hundreds of thousands (if not millions). You gain absolutely nothing by showing jealousy towards them because that game is over.  They made their money already.
645  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NXT] Nxt - Official Thread on: June 13, 2014, 10:37:23 AM
You seem very knowledgeable.  Can I ask you something?  Or anybody else? My password is 34 characters long.  No dictionary words, no spaces, all more or less random numbers, letters, and symbols.  NXT says it needs to be 35 or longer I think.  Should I move the NXT to another account?  

If it's truly random, you are safe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/syd8vwf31y90ev4/Passphrase_Length_vs_Complexity.xls

Shouldn't have to worry. The odds of a 34 character random password getting guessed are.... ~0
I think 35 was specified because most people don't use truly random passwords. Mine is 30 chars, generated like a Bitcoin mini private key. Working on the same principles, it will be the end of the universe before it's guessed by the fastest computer ever made.

Sorry I don't use Bitcoin often, is that the same as a Bitcoin address? A theft was carried out as someone used an old bitcoin address >>> Looks random but it wasn't, appeared in many google results.

Just checking  Grin

34 random char  password is 5 trillion times stronger than bitcoin address which has 2^160 bits entropy.

The problem really is never length but predictability. If your long password is predicable (or in any kind of database or blochairn) it's a weak password
646  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NXT] Nxt - Official Thread on: June 13, 2014, 10:35:10 AM
You seem very knowledgeable.  Can I ask you something?  Or anybody else? My password is 34 characters long.  No dictionary words, no spaces, all more or less random numbers, letters, and symbols.  NXT says it needs to be 35 or longer I think.  Should I move the NXT to another account? 

Your password is just fine if it's as you described it totally random.  Even 12 char totally random password has never been broke as that would be 174 times stronger than 64 bits which is the largest ever successful brute force length
647  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
Also the idea for the auction came from the community so it wasn't designed to milk anyone unless the idea was to milk themselves ?
It's one thing to display concerns but it's just wrong to spread completely incorrect facts.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention if that idea came from community. As far as I am concerned,  auction mean selling stakes for bitcoins that obviously are not distributed to community but go again to the "developers"

200 stakes sold at 2 BTC average, 400 BTC, $250,000.

Nice amount for someone ...  

648  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 08:57:26 AM

One thing I can honestly say about this project. If you honestly wanted a say in what happens with the leftover stakes, you do have a chance to be heard. Not everyone involved with this coin is a "developer". Try getting involved and you'll see what I mean. Or, you can just sit back, watch, and make comments.

I am contributing by posting my opinion. I personally never liked the distribution plan because it was designed from start to milk as much money as possible. 10%, 15% future, and there was plan for auction which meant even more bitcoins for "developers". The whole thing was designed to milk as much money as possible for "developers" (don't forget 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt during IPO). 

That's a lot of "milking"

Make it 10% for developer, 15% for future, and distribute the rest equally among stakeholders who do claim their coins.

How is that?

Pretty simple

I agree, with the 25% NEM should be fine already, and doesn't need another auction to "milk" more BTC.

Good point. Uncaimed stakes should be divided and distributed to claimed stakeholders. This should be simple and fair.

UP was planning to auction 200 or so "stakes" which meant even more bitcoins for the "developers" -- apart from 10% and 15%  and 66 BTC and several thousand nxt during IPO. This "auction" idea was designed to be as self serving as possible.

Really, after all the Nxt bashing, it had the simplest and fairest IPO. Everyone who contributed got  proportion amount of Nxt and there was ZERO development stake. Luckily 25% never showed up to claim their coins and that money went into various groups that community formed and voted (marketing, development, infrastructure, etc). There was nothing complicated or self serving.




649  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 08:35:16 AM

One thing I can honestly say about this project. If you honestly wanted a say in what happens with the leftover stakes, you do have a chance to be heard. Not everyone involved with this coin is a "developer". Try getting involved and you'll see what I mean. Or, you can just sit back, watch, and make comments.

I am contributing by posting my opinion. I personally never liked the distribution plan because it was designed from start to milk as much money as possible. 10%, 15% future, and there was plan for auction which meant even more bitcoins for "developers". The whole thing was designed to milk as much money as possible for "developers" (don't forget 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt during IPO). 

That's a lot of "milking"

Make it 10% for developer, 15% for future, and distribute the rest equally among stakeholders who do claim their coins.

How is that?

Pretty simple
650  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 08:14:41 AM
As a stakeholder I wish to add my support to the core dev team and have no intention of going anywhere, I read the thread numerous times a day, remain interested and committed to the original cause. One thing I would propose is that everyone takes time and gets some rest. Lets learn from the many things that UP did right not the one thing he did wrong. His decisions (mostly) always seemed to be considered and with an end objective insight. Please lets not start messing with the distribution of NEM or changing elements off the cuff. If people want a debate about a particular change or enhancement here is probably not the best place, a better place is probably on Trello where a request can be made and the full short and long term impact considered.

It's not unimportant question. If there are 25% unclaimed coins, then add 10% developer stakes, and 15% future development, and you are left with a situation where 50% of coins are controlled by developers. Even more if unclaimed coins are higher (as I suspect they will be)

How the fuck is that different than arura and ripple?

This is not "decentralized" system.
651  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: {NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT} (--NEW--) NEM Official Thread {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
When is the last day to claim the coins?

Why not just destroy / not generate the unclaimed coins?

I have no problem with this.
652  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 07:57:52 AM
Don't worry. We'll consider doing this once we know how many unclaimed stakes there are.

You have to make a decision before sending the coins to stakeholders (as they will get 90% instead of 75%). I am sure you have enough time, but the decision could  be made just a day before distribution.  

Send it to social impact investments if that is going to be a problem. No need to re-distribute. This will give NEM a real coin that "walk the talk" or "put your money where your mouth is".


I oppose sending billion coins free to anyone, social impact or not, as anything that is "free" is worthless. Why should anyone pay anything for Nem when 1 billion of them are given out for free to a group who will dump it for any amount of fiat cash.

That's what happened to aurora. "Free coins" to icelanders who immediately dumped them on exchanges for bitcoins.  

If you want nem to have any value you should avoid handing them for "free" -- especially not 1 billion out of 4 billion.
653  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 07:31:01 AM
Don't worry. We'll consider doing this once we know how many unclaimed stakes there are.

You have to make a decision before sending the coins to stakeholders (as they will get 90% instead of 75%). I am sure you have enough time, but the decision could  be made just a day before distribution.  
654  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 06:42:17 AM

Don't think it'll be that many but there are plenty of options how we could deal with them.

-another auction
-a sell to veteran memebers
-bounties
-faucet

Thruth is we'll probably discuss this once it's clear how many we're really talking about.

It will be very high. Nxt was launched only 2 months after the announcement and 25% never showed up. 25% of 30000 is 750 (at least and real numbers could be higher as here we have 7 months delay)

This exactly is the problem! Auctions would mean stakeholders will have trouble selling anything for months after the launch when there are still 750 million Nem being auctioned off.

bounties and fauces (25% .. 1 billion Nem in faucets, really fucking serious? )

That's why I said instead of reserving 15% for future  development from the start, you should use unclaimed coins for that purpose. There would be a lot of them, I am pretty sure about that
 


Still possible to do that. Not a bad idea actually.

It is ok. We need money for promo and marketing and competitions (maybe), social impact investments. So many things can be done with it. I am least of all worried. We should only worry about it when we cross the bridge.s.

There would be enough money from unclaimed coins to spend it for years. If 750 don't claims their coins (I think number is going to be higher) you still have close to 1 billion Nem for " promo and marketing and competitions"




655  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 06:35:51 AM

Don't think it'll be that many but there are plenty of options how we could deal with them.

-another auction
-a sell to veteran memebers
-bounties
-faucet

Thruth is we'll probably discuss this once it's clear how many we're really talking about.

It will be very high. Nxt was launched only 2 months after the announcement and 25% never showed up. 25% of 30000 is 750 (at least and real numbers could be higher as here we have 7 months delay)

This exactly is the problem! Auctions would mean stakeholders will have trouble selling anything for months after the launch when there are still 750 million Nem being auctioned off.

bounties and fauces (25% .. 1 billion Nem in faucets, really fucking serious? )

That's why I said instead of reserving 15% for future  development from the start, you should use unclaimed coins for that purpose. There would be a lot of them, I am pretty sure about that
 


Still possible to do that. Not a bad idea actually.

Exactly.

10% for developers
85% for stakeholders of 30000
Unclaimed coins go to future development (split it between marketing, infrastructure, and development committees -- three different groups).

Then you don't have to deal with unclaimed coins.
 

656  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 06:24:39 AM

Don't think it'll be that many but there are plenty of options how we could deal with them.

-another auction
-a sell to veteran memebers
-bounties
-faucet

Thruth is we'll probably discuss this once it's clear how many we're really talking about.

It will be very high. Nxt was launched only 2 months after the announcement and 25% never showed up. 25% of 30000 is 750 (at least and real numbers could be higher as here we have 7 months delay)

This exactly is the problem! Auctions would mean stakeholders will have trouble selling anything for months after the launch when there are still 750 million Nem being auctioned off.

bounties and fauces (25% .. 1 billion Nem in faucets, really fucking serious? )

That's why I said instead of reserving 15% for future  development from the start, you should use unclaimed coins for that purpose. There would be a lot of them, I am pretty sure about that
 


657  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 06:13:22 AM

The dev team only gets 10% for half a year of work, which is not too much. The remaining amount is to keep NEM develop sustainable for at least another year and if things go well, we want to get a few people working full time on this. That is only realistically possible by reserving 25% of NEM.

What are you going to do with unclaimed stakes where people on the list never come back to claim their stakes? These unclaimed stakes could be as high 750 to 1000 (even higher?)

658  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 05:30:50 AM
I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone else has relating to NEM. I think Jaguar or Gimre will come and start a new official thread and we will regroup in a day or two.

Is UP still getting same amount of dev stakes?



No idea, but that will have to be decided in the days to come. UP has spent a lot of his personal time and money working for NEM (more than 99% of stakeholders), so I feel he should at least get something.

I agree. He deserves some credit but not as much as Jaguar for example, but I always thought 25% reserved development stakes was way to high since not everyone on the list will claim their stakes. These unclaimed stakes could be used in future for development.

For example Nxt had 100 stakeholders and in the end only 73 came back to claim their stakes. These unclaimed coins went into different development and marketing committees. This ratio will be even higher for Nem due to 6 or 7 month delay.

I think you should rethink this strategy.




659  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NEW ECONOMY MOVEMENT ---Statement on NEM by User EFFV--- {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 05:21:16 AM
As far as I know, UP only had one sockpuppet that he intended to use, which is legal under the rules (you can have 1 other stake). The other ones he created just to promote the thread and he was planning to donate those to the devs for development and marketing.

He got caught with one but admitted he has others but "forgot" the passwords (a claim that I believe tells me he is still dishonest and isn't telling the truth -- there is no way in hell I am forgetting passwords of accounts I used to send money).

660  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Statement on NEM by User EFFV {Updates & Discussion} on: June 13, 2014, 05:18:49 AM
I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone else has relating to NEM. I think Jaguar or Gimre will come and start a new official thread and we will regroup in a day or two.

Is UP still getting same amount of dev stakes?

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