1821
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in RALLY mode
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on: January 14, 2011, 04:07:46 AM
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The current prices are rising constantly high even on a high trade volume. So I wouldn't say this is a bubble.
Mtgox BTC/USD is back to ~3,30 currently. I think this is the "normal" price, 0,40 was speculation.
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1824
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yet Another Misunderstanding of Bitcoin
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on: January 11, 2011, 12:59:01 PM
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Bitcoin's law: If a discussion grow longer, the probability of an argument on what exactly bitcoin is increases. Is it money, currency, commodity, or something else entirely?
Let's call that KIBA'S LAW!!! Agreed - the fundamental physical structure that describes the entity known as bitcoin: a distributed electronic network-based peer-to-peer cryptographic timestamp network of transactions that uses proof-of-work to ensure that the official mutually-agreed-upon list of transactions could only be generated by nodes with a majority of network power of computers solving for SHA hashes based on a difficulty that increases with network size and over time.
- the functional ability that describes what the entity known as bitcoin does or can be used for: a distributed electronic network-based peer-to-peer medium of exchange where issuance of new units of exchange (i.e. rate of inflation) is limited to a fixed rate per unit of time which gradually decreases over time and which prevents double spending without requiring a centralized agency.
[Common folk MODE] What da hell are ya talkin' 'bout man ? If that was an insult, you're getting your ass kicked today. [/Common folk MODE]
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1825
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yet Another Misunderstanding of Bitcoin
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on: January 11, 2011, 04:52:20 AM
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Bitcoin's law: If a discussion grow longer, the probability of an argument on what exactly bitcoin is increases. Is it money, currency, commodity, or something else entirely?
If i wanted to cover bitcoin in one sentence, then i would say "Bitcoin is the first virtual, electronic bullion".
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1826
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Yes, the Bitcoin.org Site and Forum were Down
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on: January 11, 2011, 04:45:02 AM
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Sirius, would you care to create a no-sensitive-data version of backups so everyone can backup it like wikileaks ?
Could be done, but not very high priority. We don't need Wikileaks-grade security measures yet. Hey, nobody is in a hurry here. I was just asking if You can do it at all.
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1827
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Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can viruses steal people's bitcoin purses? What can be done for protection?
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on: January 11, 2011, 04:40:03 AM
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If you're using Linux for bitcoin & only install software from signed repositories & keep system up to date, then probability of infection is almost unexistant.
You should be more worried if You're using Windows however.
Sadly Linux installs with outdated patches tend to get penetrated quite often. Hosting software, in particular, is often copied into a webspace by an "install script" and just left to rot, unpatched. I'm not saying about hosting software, I'm saying about a Desktop computer with newest version of Firefox installed. And contrary to some hostings which use such install scripts installing unstable & unsecure shit (by the way, what hosting companies are these ? i will know what to avoid - thx), standard desktops are not so suspectible to infections - of course only if you install software from signed repos and keep updated. That's because "standard desktops" do not serve anything to outgoing world as hostings do.
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1831
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Economy / Economics / Re: The AMERICAN DREAM film, animated, on youtube
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on: January 08, 2011, 06:24:42 AM
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Part of the film is legit, but other parts are simply wrong.
OK, so point out these parts, i am interested what was lies and what was the truth. I myself noticed one inexactness, but i wouldn't call it a lie. Lincoln/greenback part was horrible Can you provide some historial & economical context ? "Was horrible" doesn't say much.
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1834
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Economy / Economics / Re: The AMERICAN DREAM film, animated, on youtube
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on: January 07, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
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I thought it was abit low-brow to be honest.
I prefered the two Money As Debt films, and also the Three Hour Long Epic that is Bill Stills The Money Masters.
I use to love Bill Stills films, specially The Money Masters, until I started studying real monetary history. The movie is a mix of truth and blatant lies. Big disappointment. I wouldn't call it lies - that would be an overstatement. It is just not very precise. The movie itself is just adjusted so that the masses can understand how the system works without too much thinking, and it does that well. For the ones who want details, they can study Wikipedia, books, or watch other movies. Money as debt is better though. But i have also met people who said that "money as debt is lies" because "it is more complicated than that". But in it's core, both Money as debt and AMERICAN DREAM are right. Central banks (and generally banks in today's sense) are here to steal from us and make us slaves. As simple as that.
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1835
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Economy / Economics / Re: Will occasional losses of bitcoin wallets limit available maximum bitcoins?
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on: January 07, 2011, 09:54:34 AM
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had a back of the envelop calculation: if the loss rate is 10% per annual, it will take 21 years to reach the 1/10 mark, which can be compensated by moving the decimal point one digit to the right. Not too bad indeed.
I seriously doubt that 10% of gold/silver/platinum bullion is lost every year... Once people understand that bitcoin is a hard money & a commodity, they will protect it with their lives, the same as they do with normal bullion. Therefore, i think that 10% may be probable for the first few years of bitcoin adoption, and when masses understand the power of bitcoin, the loses will fall to 3% or less. ---- EDIT: Also, new, better clients will be created with built-in multiple automatic wallet backups & data redundancy (or it will be implemented in the default client). So the losing of a wallet will become less common.
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1836
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Economy / Economics / Re: Will occasional losses of bitcoin wallets limit available maximum bitcoins?
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on: January 07, 2011, 02:40:01 AM
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Backing up your wallet after every transaction is pure madness. Consider small marketplaces or "banks", that might receive several transactions per minute. If their server goes boom, the wallet and the backup might be both gone.
On Linux/UNIX there are network filesystems such as NFS and CODA, which can give you multiple backups on many servers at once. Everything everywhere cannot just go "boom" all in the same time. Not saying about ZFS, SAN/RAID disk arrays, and lots of other technologies which give you multiple data redundancy. You can have as many backup servers as you want... possibilities are endless. Anyway, this is not really a problem, because modern banks all use electronic currencies already, and if their computer systems failed, people would lose money the same way as they would lose bitcoins...
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1837
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Economy / Economics / Re: Lack of hard asset backing for bitcoin a problem? Witness QQ coins.
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on: January 06, 2011, 11:29:39 PM
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OK, but gold is not also backed by anything itself. So what ?
Agreed! Gold also is not "backed" by anything and so what? I am just arguing that bitcoins are also not backed and should be valued at their market price. OK, actually we're both right, this discussion is pointless. How did this start ? Ah, i said that bitcoins are "backed". Well, wrong choice of words. I should have said that they are valued at their market price like a commodity. Mea culpa
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1838
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Economy / Economics / Re: Lack of hard asset backing for bitcoin a problem? Witness QQ coins.
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on: January 06, 2011, 11:20:41 PM
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This is the argument I'm making. That they are not backed by energy/processing power/intellectual property/hash/whatever because they cannot be redeemed for those things. Those things are actually either the cost of producing them or the mechanism by which their supply is limited or the security measures that keep them from being counterfeited.
Of course, I might buy energy and/or processing power from someone with bitcoins at the market rate.
OK, but gold is not also backed by anything itself. So what ? For thousands of years the only reason people wanted gold was because it was shiny, cool & trendy (I'm not talking about modern times when gold is used in electronics and so). So if bitcoin becomes cool & trendy like gold, it can easily become the commodity everyone wants itself. It has an inherent value. Also, if somebody finds another use for bitcoins (the same as gold is used for electronics today), then it will have all the properties of a commodity (except that you can't touch a Bitcoin).
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1839
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Economy / Economics / Re: Lack of hard asset backing for bitcoin a problem? Witness QQ coins.
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on: January 06, 2011, 10:55:57 PM
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Best response. Bitcoins are novel and defy categorization.
I disagree. (...) Unless you can show me instance of a bitcoin being redeemed for the processing power and electricity used to create it. This is a wrong way of thinking. Bitcoins cannot be redeemed, because they are not a fiat currency or I-OWE-YOU notes. They are more like a commodity, a bullion. They are almost physical, except that You cannot touch them or hold them. What you are asking me to do is not to "redeem" bitcoins for something. You are asking me to either put the mined gold back to the ground [EDIT: or convert it to power, manhours & devices used to extract it]. But what would be the point of that ? -- EDIT: To be exact, you cannot put the mined gold back to the ground in precisely the same way it was previously stored, atom-by-atom. It is impossible with current technology. The same with bitcoins. Once you mine the bitcoin from the "ground", you cannot put it back in exactly the same way it was stored there previously. Also, you can't convert the mined gold back to the electricity, fuels & manpower used to extract it - the same as with bitcoin. -- EDIT2: The more i think about this, the more i see how incredible invention bitcoin is. Satoshi & whoever invented the idea of electronic commodity based on hashes are undoubtedly geniuses.
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1840
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Economy / Economics / Re: The AMERICAN DREAM film, animated, on youtube
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on: January 06, 2011, 10:47:30 PM
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I've listed the DVD in an auction on BiddingPond. If you'ld like to contribute towards the $6 purchase price: Bitcoin address: 1PktR2Hg9XvWMpE273o55pcZE5Sgu9NBgu Any funds received at that address will go towards the purchase price of the item. If proceeds from this collection plus the auction winning bid exceed the $6 purchase price, I'll apply them towards a second auction of the DVD. If the proceeds from this collection are less than the $6 purchase price, I'll cover the difference. I would rather pay money to the site if they publish a bitcoin address or paypal or something themselves. I do not want to send money to someone random spotted on forums.
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