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1321  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Does WeUseCoins Deserves the Full Bounty? RETAKE on: April 05, 2011, 05:21:41 AM
Can we please lock/close & unpin the original bounty topic so no bloody necromancer can revive it anymore ?

1322  Economy / Economics / Re: Sniff ... do you smell smoke? on: April 04, 2011, 09:59:04 PM
Well, i hope it collapses soon.
The quicker it fails, the better it is for everyone (especially Bitcoiners Tongue).

Except for all the people who'll probably end up dying in the collapse. It's hardly going to be better for them.

Sorry. Quite a few of my friends and family can't afford to hedge against such an event. While I know it's coming, and while I've done my best to hedge myself and warn others, I'm acutely aware that I'm probably going to fare much better than most of the people I'm close to. It's frustrating and a little frightening to imagine what things will look like when the sh*t hits the fan.  Undecided

Well. Certain things just have to happen, whether we like it or not.
The economy as of now is one big lie and manipulation, it has to and it will collapse ultimately.

Of course, you can warn your friends.... but since they are hopelessly dependant on the system, it is extremely hard to separate them from it (if possible at all).

Don't blame yourself needlessly, you have probably done everything you could without being seen as an insane person / conspiracy theorist / whatever.
1323  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin.org server admins wanted on: April 02, 2011, 09:58:39 PM
@Sirius

Check out your PMs.
1324  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [bitrade] New trading bot: request for comments on: April 02, 2011, 09:44:04 PM
For web-based server side software, you might consider AGPL as a better license.

It should protect you better from people who take and don't give anything back.
1325  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Wikileaks contact info? on: April 02, 2011, 09:24:16 PM
The art has begun now to turn this new bitcoin publicity into positive and legitimate activities, ideally even stating that bitcoin does not want to be assiciated with wikileaks af this stage (like satoshi has expressed clearly )
 we could add a statement on the homepage of bitcoin.org.

Please, don't do that. Wikileaks might have some bad press in USA, but they're seen as heros in the rest of the world (for example, a recent survey shown recently that Julian Assange is the third most reputated "international leader" for Spanish people). Just be neutral, it's not bitcoin's role to endorse or condemn Wikileaks. If bitcoin.org condemns Wikieaks, it'll be EPIC FAIL for bitcoin reputation in many places all over the world.

+1

Currency should stay a currency. When we involve in political stuff, we risk being associated with one of the sides.
Currencies should be neutral by design.
1326  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 31, 2011, 03:28:27 PM
Ok.... so Gavin asked me (many times before and now) for the proof that the banking/financial industry avoids floats.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO YELL THIS?Huh??

Of COURSE you shouldn't use floats internally (unless you are doing something trivial like adding up items in a shopping cart).

We are talking about the JSON-RPC api.  Which is an api for communicating between bitcoin and other applications, in which all values are turned into strings.

Ok, my mistake.

So:  what are the best practices in the banking world for representing monetary values in strings?

Unfortunately, I do not posess this information.
1327  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 31, 2011, 02:12:05 AM
Ok.... so Gavin asked me (many times before and now) for the proof that the banking/financial industry avoids floats.

And i have found it !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_point#Minimizing_the_effect_of_accuracy_problems

Quote
Binary floating-point arithmetic is at its best when it is simply being used to measure real-world quantities over a wide range of scales (such as the orbital period of a moon around Saturn or the mass of a proton), and at its worst when it is expected to model the interactions of quantities expressed as decimal strings that are expected to be exact. An example of the latter case is financial calculations. For this reason, financial software tends not to use a binary floating-point number representation.[7] The "decimal" data type of the C# and Python programming languages, and the IEEE 754-2008 decimal floating-point standard, are designed to avoid the problems of binary floating-point representations when applied to human-entered exact decimal values, and make the arithmetic always behave as expected when numbers are printed in decimal.

The [7] reference leads here:
http://speleotrove.com/decimal/

--------------
I think we can call the topic closed.
Let's go string baby !
1328  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 31, 2011, 01:55:54 AM
Well, OK. You've got a point.
Still, no big deal.

After everybody starts using strings instead of floats (and they will, because floats are seen as VERY unprofessional in the industry), we may remove the old float mode completely.
However no hurry there, it may wait a few years.

If this change was made, any code using the API must first determine the API version, and then handle numbers in two different ways. No thanks.

We can use different names for parameters, like

SendCoinsString 100.00000000
Instead of
SendCoins 100.00000000

That would eleminate such problems forever.

If you want to operate on string, just add suffix "String" to every parameter/attribute name.
1329  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 30, 2011, 10:01:18 PM
Is adding a "string mode" creating a second API ? I don't think so. This is just a switch, how can you call this a second api ?

Because it changes the data format of every number in every RPC call.

Well, OK. You've got a point.
Still, no big deal.

After everybody starts using strings instead of floats (and they will, because floats are seen as VERY unprofessional in the industry), we may remove the old float mode completely.
However no hurry there, it may wait a few years.
1330  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 30, 2011, 08:13:27 PM
The api doesn't need to be changed, we can just add an option to the command line that will specify int64 with float being the default.

Thus creating a new, second parallel API, conditionally present or absent?  Ugh, no thanks.

Is adding a "string mode" creating a second API ? I don't think so. This is just a switch, how can you call this a second api ?
Also, an option for selecting the format of output data through XMLRPC/Command line/Whatever already exists in many modern applications.
1331  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 30, 2011, 06:17:55 PM
But for the typical PHP website that is just going to add up 10 items in a shopping cart using plain-old PHP Numbers will be just fine.   I don't see PayPal recommending that PHP users of it's APIs install GMP.  Recommending that any website dealing with bitcoins compile genjix' fork and use GMP is a really good way to ensure that nobody accepts bitcoins.

Can't we just have 2 separate APIs - one float and one string in the official client ? Or maybe perhaps one API with "string mode" and "float mode" ?

BTW, are the floats really so necessary and important that you defend them ?
No offense, but while reading this topic it seems that almost nobody here likes floats except you.
1332  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: why JSON RPC values not use INT64 instead of float string? on: March 30, 2011, 06:16:15 PM
I've seen problems when porting C test functions to ARM a few years ago, you definitely can't trust a floats to behave the same on all platforms.

Actually, as long as you make sure all your IEEE compliance options are turned on...

...but probably sometimes for some reason they won't be turned on...
1333  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Best Cost-to-Mh/s Ratio Card? on: March 30, 2011, 12:37:31 AM
The best price/power card will be probably 6970, because it has almost exactly the same power while being at least 40% cheaper (last time i checked).

However that does not necessarily apply to the best Watt to Mh/s ratio.
1334  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would you support moving to a system with controled inflation? on: March 29, 2011, 11:07:01 PM

Silver, copper?  

Steel, aluminum, etc.

Paladium, Titanium, Molybdenum, Plutonium, Uranium, etc

Wink
1335  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Does WeUseCoins Deserves the Full Bounty? RETAKE on: March 29, 2011, 07:55:08 PM
YES, definately yes.

Give him all the money.
1336  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bounty for Bitcoin Animated Movie [13622.05 BTC ($2520) and growing] on: March 29, 2011, 07:54:44 PM
Pay him all the cash already you stingy cunts! Do you know how much effort has gone into that quality video?

He's gone beyond what was expected IMO. Too many people offering bounties on these forums and then not paying up after/changing their terms.

I actually believe he deserves the money. I just pointed out that the poll was bad.

I think we should give him all the money even if little less than 50% of people says so.
1337  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Does WeUseCoins Deserves the Full Bounty? on: March 29, 2011, 04:20:15 PM
Go watch http://weusecoins.com


If you guys like it, I am willing to release the animation bounty prize in the escrow account that contains 8000ish BTC, especially if noagendamarket and bytemaster agrees. (I will need to talk to them in case the escrow agents disagree)

Too bad that the poll is worhless (no offense) because of lack of security.
Anybody can register 100 accounts and vote as many times as he wants.

Perhaps the voting should be done in topic, and only votes from people having at least 10 posts, and registered for at least month ago should have a vote.

After a week, the votes will be counted simply by reading the separate posts in the topic.
1338  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bounty for Bitcoin Animated Movie [13622.05 BTC ($2520) and growing] on: March 29, 2011, 04:19:24 PM

Too bad that the poll is worhless (no offense) because of lack of security.
Anybody can register 100 accounts and vote as many times as he want.

Perhaps the voting should be done in topic, and only votes from people having at least 10 posts, and registered for at least month ago should have a vote.
1339  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would you support moving to a system with controled inflation? on: March 29, 2011, 12:35:38 PM
Yes, there are a lot of problems with my assumptions, and I ran out of fingers and toes while sorting it out, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of my figures... But it was enough for me to say... Nah...

Yeah, but my goal is to create a sustainable medium of exchange, not get rich into the stratosphere by mining coins and having them go up in value exponentially.

There is nothing wrong with a coin being worth 2 cents if that's it's value as determined by uninhibited supply and demand.

I don't know what your goal is, but whatever you want to do, do it separately from the current network.
If your actions will start supplying invalid blocks to the current network, then that may be seen as an attack on Bitcoin by some people (me included).

BTW,
I don't recall any situation in history where increasing inflation would solve any problem, especially currency stability.
So i still don't understand what are your motives in this.
1340  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would you support moving to a system with controled inflation? on: March 28, 2011, 11:28:26 PM
I don't doubt your motives are good and genuine casacius. Interested to know why you think the current programmed inflation method is contributing to destabilising bitcoin valuations? Is there something you have noticed that can draw a link?

First, it's not the inflation method.  I am not calling for perma inflation.  Just a corrective action to deal with the disparity between 25% of the coins being out there for a community that is only less than 0.1% arrived, a disparity that can be exploited the same way scammers exploit a pump-n-dump penny stock.

Second, the most obvious sign I'd point to is how the price of the BTC jumps and falls with such little volume.  What held BTC over the dollar mark temporarily was volume well under 100kBTC, or less than 2% of the entire circulation.

The next most obvious sign is the thinness of the market.  If 0.1% of the BTC gets sold on the open market today, the value crashes to nothing, and the person doing the selling walks away with all the money on the market.  The disparity provides an opportunity for the holders of the 5M+ BTC to do that repeatedly - or as is more likely to happen - incrementally so it's not so obvious.  Not a good thing for longevity and, under such circumstances, certainly not a better place to put wealth than Bernanke Bucks.

The value of the BTC today is more tightly bound to how much it is being hoarded - an artificially scarce supply - rather than the true demand versus supply if it weren't manipulated.  This is part of why I have encouraged so much mining - to grease the free market a little, by putting bitcoins in the hands of people who are more likely tol move or sell them, and less in the hands of those who collectively have millions of them stashed away.

If fewer people were holding tightly to BTC in hopes of getting an outrageous return, more BTC would be flowing freely in the market.  The end result I would expect would be a much lower BTC price, but a far more consistent one.

You can't make people hoard or not hoard BTC. It is not your call.
Hoarding does happen and it will happen. Some people may hoard for very long time, and you cannot do anything about it really.

I like the market the way it is now. Sure, there will be ups and downs, but more inflation will not fix anything.
If you create new "Inflacoin" and start from scratch, the effects will be exactly the same. The early adopters will start their rigs first, acquiring 70% of the currency before it becomes popular enough so that other miners will want to risk joining.

So what you are proposing does not fix Bitcoin childhood problems at all.  And at the moment we are experiencing childhood of the currency, so instability is expected.

You cannot fix instability with more inflation !
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