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1601  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 22, 2011, 12:48:36 AM
No difference to gold at all. I didn’t claim there was.
But the mechanism of investments in Bitcoin is that of a Ponzi scheme, that’s all I’m saying. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

No, this is wrong way of thinking. You should not compare Bitcoin to Ponzi scheme, because that automatically creates bad assumptions.

Ponzi scheme is about few people winning, and everyone else losing.
Bitcoin/Gold/Silver/Any non-inflating currency is about everybody winning.

You should seriously stop comparing Bitcoins to Ponzi scheme - that is just false, wrong and detrimental.
1602  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 22, 2011, 12:06:32 AM
BTC get more valuable if more people join the "investion scheme". If you place your bets on this (and a lot of people do), I see no difference to a Ponzi scheme. Also, this is not only limited to Mining.

I did not call Bitcoin one. Bitcoin itself is not a Ponzi scheme because it also has its own value which increases over time. It’s up to you to determine that value.

Again. Not true.

The same applies to gold, and ANY valuable bullion.
The more people join the "gold bandwagon", the more cash early miners (or early buyers) earn.

If the people (or their families) who mined (or bought) kilograms of gold during the gold rush hundered(s) years ago waited till today with the sale of the gold they own, they would probably earn thousands (if not tens of thousands) % of their first investments.
Exactly as with Bitcoin.

What is the difference ? No difference. Bitcoin is almost exactly like physical bullion with one exception: it is not physical.
1603  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 21, 2011, 10:59:37 PM
Maybe they would claim bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Well, actually, Bitcoin investment is a Ponzi scheme, and that also includes mining, working for BTC or gifts/donations. You as an early adopter profit because you have a share of 21 Million that you got much cheaper than people after you.

When this Ponzi scheme fades away, BTC will be an established currency.

That is simply not true.

Yes, Bitcoin has certain characteristics of Ponzi scheme, but it differs from it in everything except one thing.

The only thing that connects Pyramid schemes & Bitcoin is that early adopters get the most profit.
But the same applies to gold. Early miners mined greatest amounts with minimum effort. The more gold was mined out of the ground, the less profitable mining became. (as it became harder to find gold & harder to mine large amounts, because gold veins were more dispersed)

So, is gold mining a Ponzi scheme ? I see a lot of flawed logic here.
1604  Economy / Economics / Re: Sniff ... do you smell smoke? on: February 21, 2011, 09:28:52 PM
Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating.
I hear this all the time, but I don't understand it.

There's a free exchange market between dollars and Euros. So if Iran sells oil for dollars and immediately exchanges those for Euros, how is that any different from Iran selling oil for Euros directly? (Apart from the currency exchange costs, of course).

Simple.

All countries have to hold certain amounts of dollars on their accounts, as they will always need it to buy Oil. Because they are holding it, they need to buy it from time to time, which creates demand for dollar. And demand rises dollar price and keeps it from falling and keeps it in the market.

With Euro-based oil exchange, nobody would need dollar at all, so no country would hold it, so nobody (outside USA) would buy it, so it would have a small fraction of today's value. Hyperinflation.


Wouldn't they do better to hold oil futures?

edit: and can't they buy those with any major currency?

I do not posess such details. You need to check it out yourself.

However, I imagine that US government took care of that possibility. After all, their world hegemony & military domination comes from taxing entire world with their always inflating currency.

Inflation = tax. When dollar inflates, US taxes entire world (because there is more dollar outside of US than inside US). This is the greatest thievery of the century, or perhaps even in history of mankind by the way.
1605  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: bubble imminent on: February 21, 2011, 09:24:34 PM
huh? by bubble I do not mean a crash to 0... Just bitcoin losing 1/4 - 1/2 of it's parity value.

Well, this "bubble" dropped bitcoin by about ~22%, so not a big deal.
IMHO bubbles like this will always happen, however they should get smaller as the BTC economy grows.

I like this very much anyway, because i was just planning to buy more BTC and this is the perfect opportunity.
1606  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 21, 2011, 09:17:41 PM
...
Anyway, it's nanaimogold that should answer the question. You don't have to.

And you SHOULD NOT attempt to tell me what to do. I am not your fucking secretary.

Jesus, where did all that aggression come from ?
Did i offend you in any way, did I rape your daughter or kill your little kitten ? I mean WTF dude, i just asked a question politely.

I think you just lost a possible customer.


Back in the old days people had to travel to libraries and wait for information to come by mail. You can JUST GOOGLE IT.
(...)
Do YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

If i wanted to google it, i would just google it.

I didn't want to google it, because i wanted to hear it from you.
It was kind of "what did you mean by this exactly" question.
1607  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 21, 2011, 02:23:04 PM
ok, i misunderstood the request as to "show me, where they link exchangers to drugs"
here's what you asked for
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3176.msg45198#msg45198
 ^^ arrests & raiding articles compiled, please choose
Did you even click the links? Almost every one is either dead, or points to an article about exchangers/payment processors getting shut down for being unlicensed exchangers/payment processors. I don't see anything about use of their money for illegal goods being the cause. The state doesn't fear drugs, but they do fear losing control over the supply of money. So go ahead, play their games, but just wait and see what happens to Bitcoin when they realize its potential.

Right, i need something more specific - 1 to 3 links maximum.
I don't want to struggle going through all of the links.

Anyway, it's nanaimogold that should answer the question. You don't have to.
1608  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Large movement on the forum... is it accidental ? on: February 21, 2011, 11:02:20 AM
looks like visits to the forum (Most Online) reached peak in the early part of February (130~170), now it has fallen back to 80~110 visitors.

I guess this can partially explain the recent drop of BTC value. 


http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats;collapse=201102#201102


Thread from november 15 ?
I guess someone just advanced to Necromancer Level 3...
1609  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: bubble imminent on: February 21, 2011, 10:57:01 AM
LOL I was right! SUCK IT!

1. What, you call this (drop drom 1.05 to 0 .82) a "bubble" ? Well, if that is a bubble, then i want all bubbles to be like this.
2. Usually after fast rise there is a correction. It's starting to rise again, and this time the rise will be more permanent.
1610  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Patch needed ASAP: 100BTC + 50% for completion in < 24 hrs on: February 21, 2011, 12:22:32 AM
Will this patch be added to the publicly avaiable source, or will it be a secret/closed source ?
1611  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 20, 2011, 10:56:29 PM
hm, try the silkroad420 link in noagendamarket's signature
read the discussion below the main page info and you will find links
to the nanaimo exchange website in the same posts as solde, sent, works great etc.
there are only 30+ posts, should not take too long to read.
that is a nice example of the worst context for a legaly operated exchange.
i'm sure shane could send you more examples. but this one should be enough as a proof of work
yes, bitcoin pun intended.

I just did, and i didn't find any links to press articles about Government raiding currency exchangers.
1612  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If bitcoin took off, could it fund new investments? on: February 20, 2011, 02:18:12 PM
Not true, or at least not the whole truth.

Bitcoin is simultaneously like:

1. Cash in the mail
2. Bullion mined from the ground
3. Physical commodity
4. E-currency
5. Paypal

Bitcoin is many things, limiting it only to money transfer is not very accurate IMHO.
Clearly this is invention of a genius, to say the true.

I can agree with 1, 2, 4, maybe even with 4.
But no way I can compare BTC to Paypal! The latter is a service involving digital money: eg, you are offered a buyer's protection program, safer (?) use of your cc online, etc... Paypal is more taylored to fit Ebay's needs, and is not really just about moving money.

Correct,  however i meant that it is similiar in the way that you can easily send money worldwide in matter of seconds.
Paypal is a soft currency (drawbackable), so that is what differs it from hard currencies such as Bitcoin.
1613  Economy / Economics / Re: Sniff ... do you smell smoke? on: February 20, 2011, 02:14:20 PM
Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating.
I hear this all the time, but I don't understand it.

There's a free exchange market between dollars and Euros. So if Iran sells oil for dollars and immediately exchanges those for Euros, how is that any different from Iran selling oil for Euros directly? (Apart from the currency exchange costs, of course).

Simple.

All countries have to hold certain amounts of dollars on their accounts, as they will always need it to buy Oil. Because they are holding it, they need to buy it from time to time, which creates demand for dollar. And demand rises dollar price and keeps it from falling and keeps it in the market.

With Euro-based oil exchange, nobody would need dollar at all, so no country would hold it, so nobody (outside USA) would buy it, so it would have a small fraction of today's value. Hyperinflation.


1614  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 20, 2011, 02:00:10 AM

the article says:

Quote
for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

So it seems that PRODUCTION of heroin may be illegal. Production != posession. They can still jail you for producing large amounts.


Age of consent around the world.

http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm


So I was right: there is no country in the world that would allow sex with (< 10 years) underaged children.

All the banks have to do now is lobby a few politicians and bitcoin itself will be illegal.

Which won't help a lot as i already pointed out. Most governments in the world are either too corrupt or simply powerless to stop people from using P2P, so how can they stop them from using Bitcoin ? Death penalty ? That won't pass.

And by the way, the governments work too slow to ban Bitcoin before it reaches critical mass. Unless of course they have another argument like "Bitcoin was created for evil", which is the whole point of banning  stuff on this forum.

Personally i believe that Bitcoin will gain critical mass in maximum 2 years, after which it will be virtually unstoppable (unless of course some serious technical weakness comes up). Global domination in progress.
1615  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Metadata on: February 20, 2011, 01:36:41 AM
Encrypting the wallet only works when I'm not using my money. In the case of Visa I can use my card to buy a 2,000 computer system online and if a hacker gets my number I can dispute any charges with Visa. If I decrypt my wallet I automatically make a point of failure where a hacker can take my money. If I put my bitcoins into a third party and the third party is hacked then my money and everyone elses money is lost.

Now with metadata I can still lose my money in all the examples but if a bitcoin cashing place gets bitcoins that were owned by John Doe and the person wanting the cash is Jane Smith then that may put up some red flags and the cashing place can invesigate that.

No worries.

With today's technology you can create a Fort Knox to hold your Bitcoins in your home.
Truecrypt + Virtual Machines + Linux are the things you need.

With these, it is possible to create a digital safe with multi-level encrypted rooms full of mirrors & traps/honeypots which only you can navigate and only you know if they contain anything.... Possibilities are totally endless.

----
PS. If you want to go "security", drop Windows & Mac instantly. Go Linux or BSD. Corporations such as Microsoft & Apple can not be trusted. Actually, no corporation can be trusted and that is why we have open source software.
1616  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 20, 2011, 01:05:07 AM
The problem with banning "illegal goods" is that....  Almost everything is legal SOMEWHERE.    No?

No. Pedo-porn with young children (<10) is banned practically everywhere.

----
Also, i don't believe a country which would allow legally producing (not posessing) heroin exists, however i may be wrong there.
1617  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 20, 2011, 12:52:49 AM
Whats going to happen if some government declares bitcoin itself as illegal ?

I think the scenario depends on type of country. For example:

- "Full stop": In muslim countries, penalties for using such technology can include stoning a person to death (or cutting a hand, flogging etc), so Bitcoin adoption will seriously slow down or even stop there because people will be seriously afraid of consequences.
- "Little or no slowdown": In a "western democracy" type, little will happen. People will keep using Bitcoin as they keep using P2P. Adoption may be slowed down a little
- "No effect or speedup": In post-communist democracies, governments make rules, but people break most of them every day. Nobody gives a fuck about law and curruption is very high. So it will have no slowing effect whatsoever. Even a little speedup is possible, because government banning something will create a free advertisement for it. How do i know this ? Because i live in such a country.
1618  Economy / Economics / Re: Sniff ... do you smell smoke? on: February 19, 2011, 07:37:22 PM
Exactly.  Saddam Hussein tried to start an oil exchange that wasn't denominated in USD, and then he was taken out of power by the US government.

Iran started saying they were going to do the same thing, and again we heard the war drums beat again.

The US Government is pretty clear on their stance about this...

Citation needed.



Ceiling cat provides:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,998512,00.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
http://www.google.pl/search?hl=en&q=saddam+hussein+oil+euro+exchange

Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating. Question is, how long can this trick work ?

Also, when will USA will attack Iran ? A month/week before opening of Euro-based oil exchange. Destruction of dollar = destruction of current US economy. They can't let it happen.
1619  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace? on: February 19, 2011, 06:05:31 PM

Finally.

Illegal goods are now banned on the marketplace (rules). The decision is based on the notion that there's no need to keep that kind of content on this particular forum. The cost of having to go somewhere else is smaller than the cost of possible bad reputation on this forum.

Exactly what i had in mind.
1620  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If bitcoin took off, could it fund new investments? on: February 19, 2011, 05:43:52 PM
Visa has a market cap of 63 Billion.
EBay/Paypal has a market cap of 44 Billion.
Citigroup has a market cap of 142 Billion.

ETC...

So these industries could fall and all of their wealth would be redistributed.  As a whole we would be wealthier.

What you guys don't understand is that bitcoin is NOT a replacement to banks, payment systems, etc.
Bitcoin is the equivalent of cash in the mail, with extra security features.

Not true, or at least not the whole truth.

Bitcoin is simultaneously like:

1. Cash in the mail
2. Bullion mined from the ground
3. Physical commodity
4. E-currency
5. Paypal

Bitcoin is many things, limiting it only to money transfer is not very accurate IMHO.
Clearly this is invention of a genius, to say the true.
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