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1381  Economy / Economics / Re: Too many mics not enough MCs - the drop in BTC value on: March 20, 2011, 10:24:33 PM
The average user is going to want to have something as easy to use as paypal.

The average user will want to use a brand name they're familiar with; if we can continue to convince early adopters that bitcoin is a good idea, eventually PayPal or one of its competitors will start supporting it.  I hope.


Well, it's good to have hope but i seriously doubt that the "old" financial institutions such as classical Banks and institutions connected to them such as Paypal.
As soon as they will realize that Bitcoin is a serious threat to all fiat currencies, they will start fighting. Not soon, i hope.
1382  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Moderators to clean up Chinese spammers in "Market" on: March 20, 2011, 09:56:45 PM
If the forum rules are very liberal, the having mods won't hurt your freedom so much.

I don't like rules because i have my own ruleset and I can behave without any additional rules, but the mess is annoying.
1383  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: An idea to get bitcoin into every country. on: March 20, 2011, 09:41:10 PM
What ya need to do is get into a town together and create the first bitcoin town!

No what we need is to kick paypal and liberty reserve out of the middlemen position.

That can only happen in one scenario: when you can buy stuff for bitcoin, or exchange bitcoin for another currencies easily in every country.
I don't see that happening any other way.

Hopefully, when we reach critical mass, large business will start accepting bitcoin widely in different countries.
1384  Bitcoin / Project Development / Wikipedia polish translation 100% completed on: March 20, 2011, 09:14:29 PM
I am happy to announce that i have completed translation of the english wiki article to polish some time ago.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

Donations are welcome, of course.
1NLWBAD7ZD82fJDDawKfp5RAKSR8YWWYd3

(You can confirm that 99% edits are mine, because i my wiki nickname is the same as on this forum)

-------------

Z przyjemnością ogłaszam, że zakończyłem translację angielskiego artykułu na wiki na polski jakiś czas temu.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

Dotacje są miło widziane, oczywiście.
1NLWBAD7ZD82fJDDawKfp5RAKSR8YWWYd3

(Można potwierdzić, że 99% edycji jest moich, ponieważ mój nick na wiki jest taki sam jak na tym forum)
1385  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How much hashing power the CIA can organize ? on: March 20, 2011, 08:11:50 PM
If Bitcoin is really successful then it would be a threat to the dollar and the power that it holds.

By the time Bitcoin becomes "really successful", the network will operate at a hashing power of at least 10-100 Terahashes / sec and it will keep growing quickly.
It will be impossible to destroy the network then.

Another thing is that if CIA/NSA/FBI/Whatever will keep constantly attacking Bitcoin, then we will surely develop new algorithms to counter that. The only reason we aren't doing it yet is that there is no need for it.
1386  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 20, 2011, 07:48:14 PM
Can somebody explain to me why in the calculations 2 ^ 32 combinations is used instead of 2 ^ 64 for the unknown 64 bits ?
In jgarzik's original implementation, an attacker can pre-generate a rainbow table with 2^32 entries, and that lets them take a shortcut so they only have to try 2^32 bits for any particular scratch card (algorithm is, essentially, "foreach value in 2^32: do some complicated math, then see if the result matches a value in the 2^32-size rainbow table; if it does, you've found the unknown 2^64 bits").

Ah nice.

So IMHO that actually makes the scratchcards useless.
2 ^ 32 is virtually nothing for a 6990...

Using the algorithm i proposed earlier, all scratchcards can be easily broken in a reasonable time (t < 1 hour) using cluster of 6990's.

1387  Economy / Economics / Re: what happens when btc2 comes out? on: March 20, 2011, 06:31:43 PM
I think that there will be space for a second crypto-currency, probably one with superior/stronger protocols but using generally the same principles. This btc2 will be to bitcoin as silver is to gold.


Hrmmm.. not so sure about that one.

If it is determined that btc2 has absolutely no flaws (probably by the bitcoin community) then bitcoin would quickly deplete to 0 dollars value. People would forget about it, and move on to btc2.

I think there is no need for that. You are forgetting the power of Open Source. Because everything is open, all things can be joined & connected so that they cooperate together. A synergy.
IMHO it is possible to seamlessly move on to the new "Bitcoin 2.0", using a patched software, modified protocol & block chain that are backwards compatibile with the old chain.

Let's say that we implement something that changes the rules and the protocol from block 300.000. The old bitcoins would simply be converted to the new chain, and the beginning of the new chain would be "hooked" to the end of the old chain for security. So the new version would support both the old chain and new chain, but only new chain since block 300.000.

EDIT:
The beauty of open source is that you don't have to compete. You _always_ have the option of cooperation.

Once press coverage hit that bitcoin blows and "theShitCoin" is the next best thing, the public will probably follow.

No problem there. Just make "TheShitCoin" backwards - compatibile with BTC. Open Source allows this.
But if theshitcoin won't be open source, people probably won't trust it and it will fail. If it will be open source, then a bitcoin-compatibile fork can be made easily.

Solved.
1388  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 20, 2011, 06:20:59 PM
The modification to repeatedly hash the 64 bit password is a good idea, and should prevent square root attacks. I would probably have used a simpler iterative formula, but that one seems safe enough. SHA512 is notorious for speed variations on different architectures, but compared to the time to type in the password, that should be ok. Where does the magic number 108333 come from?

Can somebody explain to me why in the calculations 2 ^ 32 combinations is used instead of 2 ^ 64 for the unknown 64 bits ?
1389  Economy / Marketplace / Re: SELLERS: Let's Raise Our Prices to $2/BTC! on: March 19, 2011, 02:43:11 PM
People being afraid of BTC, for what reason?

Because they don't want to give away their "real" money? Some will think "hey, if anyone can generate these 'Bitcoins' it can't be real money!".

This is why i think that we shouldn't talk about "producing" or "generating" bitcoins, but about "mining" instead.
First 2 words create false impression that you can easily get bitcoins.

Bitcoin is similiar to gold in almost every way, so it should be compared to mining & called mining.
1390  Economy / Economics / Re: what happens when btc2 comes out? on: March 19, 2011, 02:26:43 PM
I think that there will be space for a second crypto-currency, probably one with superior/stronger protocols but using generally the same principles. This btc2 will be to bitcoin as silver is to gold.


Hrmmm.. not so sure about that one.

If it is determined that btc2 has absolutely no flaws (probably by the bitcoin community) then bitcoin would quickly deplete to 0 dollars value. People would forget about it, and move on to btc2.

I think there is no need for that. You are forgetting the power of Open Source. Because everything is open, all things can be joined & connected so that they cooperate together. A synergy.
IMHO it is possible to seamlessly move on to the new "Bitcoin 2.0", using a patched software, modified protocol & block chain that are backwards compatibile with the old chain.

Let's say that we implement something that changes the rules and the protocol from block 300.000. The old bitcoins would simply be converted to the new chain, and the beginning of the new chain would be "hooked" to the end of the old chain for security. So the new version would support both the old chain and new chain, but only new chain since block 300.000.

EDIT:
The beauty of open source is that you don't have to compete. You _always_ have the option of cooperation.
1391  Other / Archival / Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :) on: March 19, 2011, 02:19:21 PM
beware man! The FBI/etc. is already tracking you!

That is obvious.

Also, after the latest events (wikileaks etc) government has probably already dispatched somebody to investigate the "Bitcoin case".
For now, perhaps they may be just observing what is happening here, without taking any actions. But later... who knows ?

Of course i know that this may sound a little paranoid, but it's better to be safe than sorry. If you want to be really safe, there is nothing better than assuming that you are already being tracked / observed / spied upon.
1392  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 19, 2011, 02:41:37 AM
It's not safe to have only 64 bits of the private key be unknown. This can be broken in 2^32 work using such algorithms as baby step giant step, Pollard rho, or the kangaroo.

It's not immediately obvious to me that this is possible. Please go into details about how it would be done.

I have looked into this, and you do need the public key to break it. (Also I was wrong about Pollard rho being suitable, but the other two are.) Bitcoin does not reveal the public key until the tx is spent; only a hash is revealed until then. However the spending tx is vulnerable while moving through the network on its way to a block. A miner or peer could hold the transaction, break the key in 2^32 work, and substitute their own spend.

As far as the algorithmic details, here is baby step giant step. Public key Y, private key x, and generator G satisfy:

Y = xG

x is of the form s + k, where s is known salt and k is unknown 64 bits. Split k into left and right halves l, r:

k = l*2^32 + r

with l and r 32 bits. Then we have, substituting for x in the first eqn:

Y = (s + l*2^32 + r)G

Y + l(2^32(G_inv)) = (s + r)G

We precompute all 2^32 values of the RHS and store them in a hash table. Then we sequentially try the 2^32 values for l in the LHS and look for a match in the table. That gives us l and r, which gives us the private key x.

Why is it 2 ^ 32 computations only ?
Shouldn't it be 2 ^ 64, since 64 bits are unknown ?
1393  Economy / Exchanges / Re: mtgox.com has blocked my account with 45 000 USD in it! on: March 18, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
2. Jed McCaleb (old mtgox.com owner) broke NDA agreement by disclosure CONFIDENTIAL document to third parties(new owner Mark Karpeles).

What? You had signed an NDA agreement? Why did you not state this earlier? If you went through the trouble of signing legal paperwork, why didn't you make up a contract to ensure the safety of your money as well? You are clearly lying here.

Also, how did you sign this? Obviously you did not meet mtgox. Probably not through mail or fax as you've been asking for contact information. So please do inform us, how did you arrange for this NDA with MtGox?

Obvious criminal is obvious.

Obviously.
What a bad excuse of a scammer.
1394  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: About all the posts from Chinese with poor Engrish on: March 18, 2011, 09:45:07 AM
Nefario:

Is john / v1l1r [ johannes.desiakk@gmx.at ] one of your students by any chance ?

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4205.0

He has the behavior of typical spammer + poor english.
However what is weird, he keeps repeating that he is not a scammer.
1395  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 18, 2011, 08:17:24 AM
Quote
But have you though about what will happen if they generate raninbow tables for it ?

Think of this as a 192-bit salt.  It is well known how to use multiple salts.

But how can salt work if it is publicly known ?
Or am i understanding something incorrectly ?
1396  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 18, 2011, 07:44:23 AM
Assuming we can check trillion combinations in one second, we have :
18 446 744 073 709 551 616 / 1 000 000 000 000 = 18 446 744,074 seconds , which makes 5124 hours = 213 days (to check a single receiving address / pubkey).

I seriously doubt you can get anything close to checking a trillion combinations per second on any modern GPU.

Obviously, not on a single one....
But what about 1000, 5000 or 10000 ?

Anyway, that seems still too dangerous to me... I would not dare to use scratch cards for a bigger sum of money.

EDIT:
But have you though about what will happen if they generate raninbow tables for it ?
For a such small amount of computations, rainbow tables could be created (using a botnet for example), and then every combination could be broken within seconds...
1397  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 17, 2011, 11:25:54 PM
The total number of possible private keys is:
2 ^ 64 = 18 446 744 073 709 551 616 = ~1,84 x 10 ^ 19

Assuming we can check trillion combinations in one second, we have :
18 446 744 073 709 551 616 / 1 000 000 000 000 = 18 446 744,074 seconds , which makes 5124 hours = 213 days (to check a single receiving address / pubkey).

I would say this is not safe enough. A Radeon6990 - based supercomputer or cluster (doing millions of trillions operations per sec) could possibly do it in a reasonable time.
Unless, the scratch cards would only be guaranteed to work for a limited time, and would only be used for small amount of cash, like under $10000.

Perhaps number of unknown bits should be increased to 72 or 96 - that would make this method safer.
1398  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 17, 2011, 09:28:50 PM
It's not safe to have only 64 bits of the private key be unknown. This can be broken in 2^32 work using such algorithms as baby step giant step, Pollard rho, or the kangaroo.

So if i understand correctly, in the original scenario, 192 bits of private key would be publicly known, and only 64bit would stay secret ?

That's how my patch is implemented, yes.

You can make it stronger by, say, having 1000x 176 bits of well known private key, 64 bit password, and 16 bits of brute force required to redeem.

OK, but the potential attacker would still have to brute force the private key based on the public key... Hmmm seems fairly easy to do, if you know which of the keys it is.

So i'm thinking..... to perform an attack, we need to do the following:

1. Get all receiving addresses (public keys) [PK] used in last hour on the network.
2. Foreach of [PK] (public keys), do
      - Perform 2 ^ 64 tries to generate [PRK] (private keys) starting with the first 192 bits
      - Foreach [PRK], do
             - Generate public key (BTC address) [GPK] from [PRK]
             - Check if the [GPK] matches [PK]

So it seems that as long as there isn't many transactions on the network to check, this should be fairly computable opreration by perhaps.... few 5Tflop-Radeon 6990's ?.

Somebody correct me if I am reasoning wrong.
1399  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards on: March 17, 2011, 08:37:32 PM
It's not safe to have only 64 bits of the private key be unknown. This can be broken in 2^32 work using such algorithms as baby step giant step, Pollard rho, or the kangaroo.

So if i understand correctly, in the original scenario, 192 bits of private key would be publicly known, and only 64bit would stay secret ?
1400  Other / Archival / Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :) on: March 17, 2011, 01:27:42 AM
It's also not working for me. Probably just temporary Tor problems.

Code:
Mar 16 19:07:17.203 [notice] Tried for 120 seconds to get a connection to [scrub
bed]:80. Giving up. (waiting for circuit)

My TOR node usually needs about 5-10 minutes to properly "heat up" and get connected to other nodes and it that time no page works for me.
After that, it runs normally.

Maybe you all should start the note and let it work for some time, and try it later.
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