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Are we arguing semantics or what? Someone said that he got his economics right. I said he has a finance background, you know as an explanation to why he might not be a moron when it comes to economics?
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Now that I think about it, whoever created Bytecoin likely had optimized miners for their crippled hash function. Using a direct copy of their code would have enabled anyone with access to this miner to have a great advantage in mining Monero, as well. Bytecoin was tainted, they knew that. But what if we did a "fair" relaunch? Just conveniently fail to mention that the exact same fucking method used to make Bytecoin unfair could be applied to Monero! And no one would be the wiser! Now that's what I call a smart scam.
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Argument from authority, learn why this logical fallacy holds.
I know several people in finance, some smart and some very not so smart. A background in finance can mean very little, a background in anything can mean nothing.
Look at the finance people that caused their banks to fail, look at the experts that told us crypto-currency would fail, look at all people that are experts and yet have been wrong time and time again.
Your arguments are getting worse and worse.
All I see is developer worship and the beginnings of a cult.
What are you even talking about? His background in finance informed certain aspects of the coin's development, that's all. What you said might have made sense, if I had said " He has a background in finance, that is why Darkcoin will succeed". But that's not what I said. Reply to what I post, not what you wish I had posted.
Except that DRK was instamined, and the only evidence against this fact is that the developer said it wasn't intentional, now you have to believe in the word of the person that benefits most from the instamine. The right thing to do would have been restart the coin.
Also Monero was released in the form it was given to the world by the Bytecoin development team, this is verifiable, Monero was almost an exact clone at birth. It was afterwards that the code was cleaned up.
An instamine is an intentional fast release of coins to benefit the developer. Remember with DRK the instamine was so bad because he made the initial block reward far higher than it should have been, in Monero nothing like this happened, the block reward was always correct, the initial code just not being optimized because of its bytecoin origins.
How is that any sort of argument? We didn't write the code, so we can't be blamed for any potential abuse as a result of our choice to use it? In what fantasy world of yours does that make any sense whatsoever? |
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You guys are funny. I couldn't care less about the instamine. Try explaining the difference to someone who is not familiar with crypto. They won't care either. This is relevant, as that's where a good deal of new money will come from.
I hope you're trolling and not being serious. Explaining the concept of a premine/instamine to a layman is far easier than explaining almost anything else in crypto. "Hey, this weird crypto thing, do you want to invest? But before you do I'll let you know, the guy that created it made it so he could collect 10% of the entire supply in a matter of days, it's that guy who will crash the price at the peak by selling the lot, happy investing!" The concept of unfair distribution is one of the easier concepts to get your head around when explaining crypto. Well sure, if you blatantly lie or creatively misrepresent, many interesting things can be accomplished. Monero was created with a crippled hash so that the devs could have a massive advantage in obtaining coins. They made secret, optimized miners that allowed them to divert a large % of the supply to themselves. Botnets mined a massive portion of the coin's supply. See how easy that is? |
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Investors aren't stupid, if they thing someone has enough coins to crash the whole market then they will simply stay away as the reward isnīt worth the immense risk.
The Instamine is currently ~40-50% and due to Darkcoins cheating of:
1) Capping the MAX coins after launch
2) Basing their reward on Nethash *
it will stay 40-50% for a long time...
But talk it good were you can, for sure real investors will read your posts and put millions in.
It was preannounced and there were many people mining. Coins were distributed through trading in the weeks following launch. So I doubt that the distribution is significantly different than XMR. * Fun fact: Every faster miner for drk effectly caused the miners to mine LESS as everyone upgraded, the nethash gone higher and reached the 5 coins/reward limit; Damn that dude really got his economics right...
He has a background in finance. |
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How much hash/s do you need to get 1 XMR per day?
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You guys are funny. I couldn't care less about the instamine. Try explaining the difference to someone who is not familiar with crypto. They won't care either. This is relevant, as that's where a good deal of new money will come from.
That money is minuscule compared to institutional money, and institutional investors / speculators won't touch it because of the instamine. As with everyone else, they'll buy what works. An instamine of roughly 10% of total eventual supply is a far less of an issue than the trolls make it out to be. I remember when Darkcoin was under ten cents, and people said it won't go anywhere because of the instamine. They were wrong. In due time, you'll be proven wrong as well. |
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You guys are funny. I couldn't care less about the instamine. Try explaining the difference to someone who is not familiar with crypto. They won't care either. This is relevant, as that's where a good deal of new money will come from.
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So you are betting on peoples ignorance for Darkcoin usage go up, wow so fitting for such immoral and instamined coin.
If there's two things that you can bet on, it's human stupidity and laziness. Build your model with these things kept in mind if you want to succeed. |
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I think we'll be seeing a new #2 within a 3 month timeline.
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Sorry that I even mentioned it. Hopefully the thread doesn't devolve into a religious debate.
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Also if you get 50% of the MN, you get 10% of the mined coins and can setup further masternodes and get even more, sounds awesome.
I am also sure if its known that half of the masternodes are malicous, most MN users would sell and then i own even more nodes, even more awesome.
The tech is going to be open source. That alone makes any manipulations involving masternodes an exercise in futility. |
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Some people have broader interest than money. One day you will grow up and notice that the life isn't about $.
Until I had financial security, that was all that really mattered. Hard to enjoy life when your conditions are less than optimal. Certainly some find ways. The reality is that very few people actually live, the vast majority just exist. |
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I2P is of course planned.
But I2P theoretical sybil attacks have nothing todo with Monero as a currency, nor will they hinder how it works.
Get a prepaid umts stick, run it inside Whonix (which additionally routes through tor) and you have a damn good IP Obfuscation, the best you can have nowadays.
Now if you come and mention the "DRK IP Obfuscation" then i will just laugh at you.
What would you be laughing at? Something has been proposed, but that doesn't mean it's finalized. If the community decides that there's a better option, I'm sure Evan will be more than happy to pursue a different path. |
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Man you canīt even read, i quote it again. - tx sybil attack (mitigated with mandatory tx fees)
- I2P (anonymity or DoS) sybil or timing analysis attack And I2P, its not even implemented yet, sybil attacks there have nothing todo with what happens to monero. Clearly having ip obfuscation inbuilt is better than not having it. Sybil attacks he mention are about ip-deobfuscation, nothing todo with the currency itself. They also exist in TOR, just for your info. i marked the BOLD parts. BOLD means important. i repeat it for you, READ THE BOLD PART. Fun question for your: I hope you remember when CCEX was hacked. I hope you remember how many DRK were stolen then. Also when Mintpal was hacked (Vericoin), DRK was withdrawn. Count those 2 together, calculate how many Masternodes you can run with those coins. Tell us the percentage of Masternodes you own if you use those coins for Masternode setups. Now imagine another big exchange gets hacked, lets say Mintpal and well Cryptsy too. Stealing DRK is as dangerous as stealing pur PoS coins, if you have stolen enough you rule the whole network. PS: Donīt believe everything a single person tells you. Now your anonymity is prolly completly broken and you are fucked. Or, imagine the FBI goes there and confiscates the DRK, or they confiscated them somewhere else, lets say when the hypothetical SR3 gets raided. Thats how govt can easily destroy DRK without even wasting money. Is I2P no longer a planned part of Monero? Still planned? Then the criticism is relevant. As to the stolen DRK, I did a calculation for owning 50% of the masternodes, how likely would it be to unmask transactions. The answer is that it wouldn't serve much good. Can't remember the % figure off the top of my head, but if even a single MN from the chain used to mix is honest, you're golden. .5^N, where N is the number of rounds used to mix. If N=8, you'd have less than half a percent chance to unmask a transaction. The number of mix rounds can also be increased in the future, if necessary. Additionally, once the technology is open source, tens of coins will use it. An adversary would need to own a majority of the masternodes for all of them. Does that sound practical to you? Further, in the future there may be an option to use a set of "trusted" nodes. A sort of private network that you can choose, or setup for yourself. |
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Just wondering, not out to crucify anyone. I'm curious because I find Anonymint to be a very intelligent person, but the constant biblical references had me confused. As to their relevance to any of the subject matter discussed on this forum. As to the need to inject religious content into a cryptography discussion.
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Risto, mswing from the silver forum we used to belong to is calling for Revelation to begin 2019. I mention that here to give weight to the concern I expressed in my prior post, that we not see Bitcoin nor fantastical dreams of wealth as our primary threat model and objective. Sorry, need to clarify, you believe in God? |
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Would like to get some closure on recent discussions. To help rpietila with the periodic summaries he typically adds to the OPs of his moderated threads, I suggest we try to compile a summary of the significant pluses and minuses of top anonymous coin designs. Could we agree on wording such as the following? Please let me know if I left anything out that we discussed upthread. The following doesn't attempt to qualify how likely or predominant relative weaknesses are, as this is too complex to summarize succinctly. * represents a feature which is claimed to be an advantage but may or may not be a liability. ?? means I guessed and am not sure. Monero (Cryptonote coins)+ cryptographically unlinkable & untraceable - tx sybil attack (mitigated with mandatory tx fees) - I2P (anonymity or DoS) sybil or timing analysis attack - unprunable -> mining centralization or less scalable - public key cryptography not quantum nor number theoretic immune - slow PoW hash - mining is not anonymous* unvetted asic-resistant PoW hash, demonstrated GPU parity Boolberry (Cryptonote optimization) + discards ring signatures reducing block chain size by a constant factor + prevents mixing with those who don't mix so unlinkability & untraceability isn't trivially broken + cryptographically unlinkable & untraceable - tx sybil attack (mitigated with mandatory tx fees) - no I2P/Tor IP obfuscation - unprunable -> mining centralization or less scalable - public key cryptography not quantum nor number theoretic immune - mining is not anonymous (??) * unvetted asic-resistant PoW hash, demonstrated GPU parity (??) DarkCoin ( this is the best CloakCoin's anonymity could improve to as it is similar conceptually in design) + prunable (but unimplemented) - unlinkability Sybil attack on masternodes - tx sybil attack (mitigated with mandatory tx fees) - Tor (anonymity or DoS) sybil or timing analysis attack - simultaneity or premix tx bloat -> mining centralization or less scalable - public key cryptography not quantum nor number theoretic immune - mining is not anonymous (??) Zerocash+ all coins mixed all the time, so no tx Sybil attack incentive (may not need tx fees if they adopt my secret??) + don't need to obfuscate IP address (I2P/Tor) because... + ...everything is cryptographically hidden... - ...even the money supply -> compromised master setup or cryptanalysis breakage could create unlimited undetected coins - unprunable (??) -> mining centralization or less scalable - public key cryptography not quantum nor number theoretic immune - unvetted new complex crypto could break anonymity and coin value retroactively - mining is not anonymous (??) - not released It is I who chuckles at you. You do all that work, for the sake of making me rich. If you do it well, that is. If not, then your failure will amuse me greatly. Now back to work. |
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@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.
Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better  Good for you, now stopping bashing Monero on the Monero threads please. Unlike some others , I have the courtesy to stay out of your main thread. However, I feel that creating ten plus threads on this forum is arrogant. And I have a passionate distaste for arrogance. I didnīt know you are a Mod of this forum. Nor did i know its against the TOS of this forum. This just shows how narrow minded you are. People prefer to have clean threads with info and not 1 thread with 2500 pages and too much info to filter. But you canīt accept other peoples opinions anyway so you offload your trashtalk and ruin ever thread with it. Great work, you are such a valuable addition to human mankind. Get a life. You're free to make as many threads as you wish, and I'm free to make my voice heard in the way I choose. Because I have decency, I don't say a single negative thing in your main thread. However, if you make a thread to speculate about Monero, I'm free to add my speculation there. |
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@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.
Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better So you came along at a good time. I did the same buying LTC with my BTC in early 2013. But things move fast...better to have an open mind my friend. Open your mind to Monero Outside of BTC and 2 or 3 alts before I learned about shitcoins and the pump and dump cycle, I have only purchased one cryptocurrency. Could it be luck? I was arguing for the necessity of an anonymous cryptocurrency before Monero was a twinkle in thankful_for_today's eye. |
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