I'm guessing your margin requirement has risen by about 10%, no?

Earlier I believe he said they've set the vanilla margin requirement at '40% of the underlying principal.' Forty percent of $250/btc is MORE than forty percent of $230/btc. Be careful, if the btc price keeps rising, you could get a margin call on your short puts!?! How's that for 'f*ck'd up system risk?'

I haven't touched the vanilla options, don't believe I will.

Yeah, but option sellers are not agreeing to take on 'fuck'd up system risk.'

My worst fear is that they build a meaningful customer base, get some real momentum, and then their index calculation goes awry and they erroneously liquidate thousands of clients. Etc. etc ... I was trading on Bitfinex during the extreme market conditions a year ago, and that leading exchange simply shut down their trading engine, and/or turned off their margin mechanism, on a couple of occasions. They came out of it more robust, and I still trade there, but that is not ideal by any means. It cost me a few thousand US$, and no, there was no recourse.

Coinut only has one reputation to lose. I'd rather we held them to the fire NOW, and they address these critical things while their reputational risk is still low, than later, when the 'cost' is likely to be much higher.

Thank you for sharing. As a player it was intuitively clear droneprobe, dolphin, atthegame were dupe acccounts, but there was no precise or clear evidence to link them.

You don't owe anybody any apologies for ending the freerolls. Apparently there were about 5-7 of us battling against several dupe accounts run by 2-3 players - my guess. I'm sure at certain hours only the dupe accounts were playing. Enjoyed your site, and I'll play again when there is action ...

Moonbind is a regular player at Luckyflops and bitcasino.io as well, and I've never heard an allegation of cheating. If you have evidence of him playing multiple accounts in the same game please say so clearly. I think some of us would be surprised, but glad to know.

If he simply had two accounts, but one never played, or one was abandoned before another became active, you might give him the benefit of the doubt. Poker players sometimes wear sunglasses to hide their temperament and playing style. It is reasonable that he might have wanted to play under a different handle than he was known by ... that is largely why I played under 'Occam' on your site - because everyone is familiar with Indamuck's playing style, and I want to fly under the radar for a bit.

Then again, the multi-accounter was setting up accounts using everyone else's handles, so your visibility to IPs may give you better understanding.

This looks like your automated margin call system was triggered by some aberration to your in-house calculation of the index. I believe he posted this before you began offering vanilla options. If he had a portfolio of vanilla options, in addition to seeing his open orders cancel your system likely would have auto-liquidated him with market orders. Basically that could have wiped him out ... because of glitched up systems. This is the type of risk I think about when considering your vanilla options ...

Mr. Wang,

It appears that you changed the index composition in the dark ... without telling anybody. Is that the case?

You cannot sell financial instruments tied to a stated index, and then secretly change that index, no matter how minor, or good your intentions.

I know your intentions were good, but you open yourself to charges of fraud ... and those might be hard to refute.

If you change the index composition, it needs to be announced in advance, in a transparent manner.

I was concerned about index manipulation as well, hence my questions about it. Glad to see you were aware, and happy to see the recent updates!

Just a heads up: some virus created an account with my handle 'Indamuck' and was playing today. Same bs they were pulling at bitpoker.io a week ago before that place closed shop. Everyone knows I play under 'Occam' on this site.

I guess Admin may have closed Migaton's account for some reason, and he's come back for more. There is no cure for being an Ass Clown.

In the interview Mr. Wang seemed to indicate that Coinut is currently acting as their own market maker, but they are looking for someone, or others, to take on that roll. Specifically he said multiple times that they are 'using a modified black-scholes option pricing model.' The platform itself has no need for such a model, only the market maker does. So if they are using the model, they must be making the markets.

Hence the elephant in the room here: we are currently trading against Coinut itself, which has a severe information advantage and the power to make ad-hoc adjustments such as how the index is calculated and compiled, as well as margin requirements. Look through the progression of this thread and it is clear they've change the composition of their index at least once. And an aberrant move in that index did trigger their automatic margin call mechanism, at least once. It only takes 'once' to wipe some traders out ...

To be clear, I love the potential here, but they have a long way to go, and until they are able to address these kinds of things, there is reason to be cautious.

Actually, with an 18 player min to run, I don't expect it will play. Perhaps in the weeks or months ahead Luckyflops will have enough players with that many points to be running these bigger tournaments. We'll see ...

5 chip Freeroll at 5pm EST today. Needs 9 players min to run ... pls make sure to check in and register at some point this afternoon!

Jorjito, you are one of the best players I've come across recently in btc poker sites.

You've had the best of it so far, but don't let that get to your head, because it only means you've gotten my attention.

That can't be good ...

Just remember. YOU play cards. I play SOULS.

Sent you PM ...

How much capital do you have? I mean to say, how many coins do you have?

I'm doing very well 'trading' at the moment, but I wouldn't share with anybody unless I got a significant cut of the profits.

Just listened to the Whaleclub interview on youtube ... well done.

Glad to hear that you are familiar with ThinkorSwim ... I'm excited for Coinut's potential. Please keep us updated on developments including site development, bringing on additional market makers, and possibly investment partners.

Everybody and their brother's uncle is a 'trader.'

You are a liar and a scammer.

Buyer beware.

Like I said, I'm a seasoned trader, licensed professional, and I've seen this before a thousand times.

Go f*ck yourself.

How automated is that process? If Btc-e goes down again and the index goes kilter ... are these margin calls triggered?

By 'arbitrarily set' I'm referencing the fact that derivatives exchanges routinely change the margin requirements on their contracts. Of course they will cite reasons, but the changes will always seem arbitrary to others.

My point is, you DO have the option of changing the margin requirements at any time, though at 40% it sounds like that shouldn't be necessary.

Next few days I will set up a second account to play with the vanilla options a bit. Have a look ...

Thanks. I'm not actually ready to get a card yet. When the time comes I'll follow up.

I'm in the US and have no problems ... so kind of at a loss as to why you would have such an issue. Luckyflops Admin reads this thread (I think) ... so when he sees it he'll have a look and response, I'm sure.

I am a seasoned trader and finance professional. And I don't have time to educate everybody for free in online chat forums sorry. I've heard the spiel a million times before. People sell these 'systems' to daytraders all the time ... it is an outright scam.

You've been warned.

If you are curious, and have some coin to blow, rent the thing, and learn the hard way.