http://thegenesisblock.com/800000-avalon-asic-bitcoin-mining-chips-expected-over-next-month/

It gets harder every day to see any positive/optimistic outcome from the chip fiasco.  I have been a little encouraged by the recent increase in BTC price, but unless it keeps climbing...

At this point is there any way for Terrahash to reject or sell the gen 1 chips from Avalon and find a batch of gen 2 chips from any other chip manufacturer?  Rather than get a miner that will barely crank out any BTC in 30+ days from now (best case scenario?), I would be OK waiting a few months to get a significantly faster chip, or even a reduced number of chips, or whatever will out perform what TH is currently expecting from Avalon.  TH needs to hold Avalon accountable and get chips yesterday, or get a refund, or get one of the first orders of a wicked fast gen 2 chip.

Terrahash, can you please communicate more with your customers via the forum or your support site?  Your silence is unnerving, and a bit rude considering all the trust/faith your customers have given Terrahash just on your word.  A lot of people chose to support Terrahash and allowed you (I believe by your own admission) to purchase hardware with the expectation of a mid August delivery.  Yes we knew the risk, but as this is a dynamic environment/situation, and rumors, etc. fly fast, it would be better for everyone (your customers) to know more about what Terrahash is doing, and how it is in our (your customers) best interest.  Silence is not acceptable.  Please engage in dialog with the customers that ask direct questions on the forum so all can be informed, and please answer to the best of your ability ALL the questions, not just the easy/quick one line responses.  Thank you!

Sorry,

But a failure to deliver on time. Not provide proper information demands refunds. As for Yifu blocking the chips even further at this point is meaningless we need to simply boycott Avalon and make sure we disrupt his Gen2 to Gen4 sales here in this community as much as possible. We have a breach of contract and that must be rectified now SebJu asking for coupons, waiting for him to deliver another 1 to 2 weeks later is not the terms and conditions we agreed to as chip buyers. It was 4 weeks for developer chips and 9 to 10 weeks for the main orders. Avalon failed to deliver. I do not see how politely accepting compromises for such a failure is in anyone's best interest especially the community. We all need to stop being weak and band together and cause Avalon some pain back where it counts Gen2 sales. BOYCOTT until we are all properly compensated. Refunds must be given if asked that is LEGALLY what we are entitled to given the failure to deliver the product. We will be emailing all the interested group buy owners soon to start legal action against Yifu and Avalon.

Thank you for politely head checking this person. I have noticed that (s)he complains a lot and wants to spend more money on lawyers and court fees than helping the bitcoin community ( of which Yifu was a member long before whoever vigil is ). 
I have about 4k riding on this and I remain optomistic because I have been mining for years, and I invested in my ideals rather than to make a quick buck on something that seems to not make a person happy. The concepts behind bitcoin bring more joy and light into me and my thoughts of the future, and that is what I invested in. Not my bank account, not my furrows of worry, but simply to enjoy the ride, and show others that , 'hey this is just a ride, it was meant to be fun and exilerating, have its ups and downs loops and turns....but its just a ride'. I hope everyone that participates in the making or breaking of the bitcoin economy remembers - it's just a ride.


-And Yifu - huge thanks for all the hardWork(fishes)

Are you a lawyer?  While I'm not trying to defend Avalon at all, from a legal standpoint simply being late with an order is not a big deal - unless you have a contract specifying exactly how much they're supposed to pay if they don't ship on time, it's unlikely you could win a lawsuit against a supplier simply for being late.

The reality is, people are late with orders all the time.  Normally it isn't nearly as big of a deal.  If normal chips are late by a few months, nothing major happens.  Worst case a new product launch has to be pushed back, and major companies actually plan extra time for delays in designing product schedules.

In the bitcoin world, it's a huge deal.  In the "real" world it's not a big deal and not a big deal legally either.

It makes no sense whatsoever because you do not understand what is involved.

Integrated circuits are manufactured starting from bare silicon substrates (wafers). They then go through a series of several hundred processing steps in multi-million dollar machines. These unit steps involve huge varieties of litho, etch, dep, strip/clean, and doping/implantation processes. The recipes, process parameters, and similar can change depending on how foundries are organizing their production flows, and how they are adding/removing/replacing processing tools. It is entirely possible that a wafer flow that was implemented successfully 6 months before is no longer possible because it's been replaced by something new. Furthermore, companies with much more influence than some kid (read: Yifu) may be utilizing 100% of the desired capacity for a specific process.

This isn't a turnkey business. Computer chips are not cars. Just because it was possible 6 months ago doesn't mean it is possible now, ESPECIALLY if you're a small customer. The fact that huge companies like AMD or Nvidia have issues with production at foundries should give you an idea of what it's like for Avalon.

Even if it WAS like cars, surely you can understand how a small customer might make an order for 10,000 cars and receive them as planned, because the manufacturing line is below capacity. But if Toyota comes along and asks for 1,000,000 units (I understand that car companies tend to own their factory - semiconductor companies usually do not), they might get shut out completely when they try to make their next order, because the manufacturing plant is at 100% capacity and cares far more about making Toyota happy than some punk with a 10,000-car special order.

If you could do this as a child, you should be a titan of industry by now.

Agreed.

Chinese typically have little values when it comes to customer service. All they give a fuck about at the end of the day is making a dollar and will try to take it any which way they can.

The only evidence I've seen is the images from the last page.

So the first tonne of chips went from China to Hong Kong, China.

Is that one flight all the evidence of the shipping journey we have?

Could the chips be being held by Hong Kong customs since the end of that first flight?

If Avalon had been ripped off somehow, would they be able to make it public knowledge?  Would they instead attempt to send out another delivery to fullfill those missed orders, hoping to catch up as soon as they could?  Would they be so bad after all, if that were the case?

What other evidence is there please?

Thank you for that simple yet intelligent post. Yes your right and that is a point that is so looked over in all the threads while they are biatching about their roi's... if BTC 150.00 hey we're all fine for a while, 200,,,looking good, ...250. we smell like a rose If BTC does not rise, than we are all just chasing our own tails.

That's not always true.  Generalizations like this are not helpful.  The bigger the deadline the more wiggle room is usually built in.  Two weeks is really not a ridiculous delay, and anyone with good business sense understands that large projects have large unforeseen problems.  Not anticipating some kind of hiccup is the sign of a bad businessman.  When you are dealing with this kind of money, not at least calculating the risk of a delay (especially with someone at the helm who's never run this scope of a project before) is doing yourself a disservice.  Seriously, who here DIDN'T expect at least a little delay?  Batch #1 #2 and #3 all experienced delays.  

The vitriol and anger spilling out of this thread is extremely telling.  

Why do people keep saying CHINA?  Bitsyncom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.  It is NOT a chinese company.

Could you link me this guarantee, please?

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'. 

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

OK, I read the link, and while you can obviously sue for anything you'd like, nothing in the article you posted gives me any great confidence that you would be successful.  But I'm happy to concede the point as it does appear that you'd at least have a fighting chance.

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

Because they know that anything said against BitSyncom means their delivery will be delayed.
Quite understandable.
They've been put into a very difficult position and the only real way out for them is to get the chips as fast as possible.
Risking being given more delays on purpose due to commenting badly about Avalon would not really be a good idea.

This I very much doubt.  While I'm certainly no legal expert I would think any contract implied would stretch only to the product and it's capabilities, i.e. hashrate.  Unless Terrahash used verbage to indicate expected ROI then I doubt they can be held to any loss of income through late shipment.  I base this purely on my very limited knowledge that when multimillion dollar contracts are written, reviewed by legal teams and ultimately signed, there is often language contained in said contract that specifically discusses penalties owed from vendor to purchaser for late delivery.  I'm happy to be told I'm wrong by an actual legal expert or by anyone who can show me legal precedent, but while I understand your argument perfectly well, would it actually hold up in court?

As for the first part, the risk, I agree with you there for the most part.  I would say that the risk extends beyond having to fight to get the money back, to actually ever getting all or just some of it back, although buyer protection from PayPal/CC should alleviate that.

Very true that no purchaser is at fault, but every purchaser most definitely took a risk when they pre-ordered with the full knowledge that a product didn't exist.  They took that risk so that they could be the first with the new boards.

I signed up for the emails from Terrahash before they opened up pre-orders.  I ultimately decided not to order because I wasn't prepared to take the risk of missed delivery.  I knew that that would put me behind the curve if they ever got the items to a point where I could order and get delivery within a few days to a week, but that's what I was most comfortable doing.  If I had more liquid assets to invest I might have seen things differently, but I definitely made the decision based on risk.  If anyone paid Terrahash money on a promise of goods and didn't see it as a risk, however trusting they were, then they're fools.  That's not to say that they don't deserve refunds if they want, or the goods they've purchased ASAP, but beyond that I don't see that they're owed anything for loss of ROI.