Latest news regarding chips shipping and batch 3 http://www.avalon-asics.com/There are 2 pages, be sure to hit the right arrow to get the specific updates We have known this for going on a week now, where have you been? Here is a poll regarding the action to be taken against Avalon: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270897.0so far, 80 people want a refund - that is about 50% of the respondents. |
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https://sites.google.com/site/boycotavalon/BOYCOTT AVALON
Demand Refunds Now
Just the Facts
1. Many of the community have invested in these chips at a time when AVALON had elevated themselves into arguably the top slot for BTC mining equipment. So far they have delivered 1 batch of chips to their "western" customer base and they were some 4 weeks overdue.
2. Their "No Bullshit" terms of sale have not been followed; sample/developer chips provided 4 weeks after payment of order didnt happen. Shipping of chips 9-10 weeks after payment didnt happen. They are clearly in violation of their own terms of sale and therefore must offer a full refund to those purchasers requesting such.
3. Whatever you have been told, their statement "No refunds" does not waive our statutory rights as consumers. I am a large shareholder in a group buy who have already requested a refund and have not received any reply. This is simply not acceptable from a company who has taken $millions of our money. Our group has realised that this 6+ week in delay and counting has effectively made the chips worthless to us.
4. If the majority of shareholders in group buys decide that they will be wasting more money for fabrication costs and having no chance of seeing a ROI, then perhaps, its time to demand a full REFUND from BitSyncom, after all there are other companies which can likely deliver sooner and represent a more favourable investment.
5. I would urge all batch leaders to poll your group buy members and find out what THEY want, if a large number of group buy leaders request a refund, there will have to start addressing the issue. BitSyncom need to understand that they need to open up channels of communication and address this serious issue which affects hundreds if not thousands of consumers.
6. If this situation continues for much longer, the chips will not be worth their initial cost + development cost.
7. If you have any information about BitSyncom, full personal details,addresses (for legal communication), telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, Links to their personal media pages, personal future appointments at events (dates and locations), any info which will help to make contact, please post it on this thread.
dont take this the wrong way vigil, but could you please keep the avalon bashing/ bitsyncom/ yifu tar and feathering to the avalon sites? not that i am a fan... in fact i am also pissed as hell, but even if there was to be a refund we would all be fooked at this point. i know its difficult, and im having a hard time not ranting as im asking you to restrain yourself, but it would be nice if we could keep this forum on track with news and terrahash bashing =P No. This is posted here so that the individual members of the TerraHash purchases can have a discussion and make their decision about how to proceed. This directly pertains to TerraHash and our orders, this is not isolated to Avalon. |
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https://sites.google.com/site/boycotavalon/BOYCOTT AVALON
Demand Refunds Now
Just the Facts
1. Many of the community have invested in these chips at a time when AVALON had elevated themselves into arguably the top slot for BTC mining equipment. So far they have delivered 1 batch of chips to their "western" customer base and they were some 4 weeks overdue.
2. Their "No Bullshit" terms of sale have not been followed; sample/developer chips provided 4 weeks after payment of order didnt happen. Shipping of chips 9-10 weeks after payment didnt happen. They are clearly in violation of their own terms of sale and therefore must offer a full refund to those purchasers requesting such.
3. Whatever you have been told, their statement "No refunds" does not waive our statutory rights as consumers. I am a large shareholder in a group buy who have already requested a refund and have not received any reply. This is simply not acceptable from a company who has taken $millions of our money. Our group has realised that this 6+ week in delay and counting has effectively made the chips worthless to us.
4. If the majority of shareholders in group buys decide that they will be wasting more money for fabrication costs and having no chance of seeing a ROI, then perhaps, its time to demand a full REFUND from BitSyncom, after all there are other companies which can likely deliver sooner and represent a more favourable investment.
5. I would urge all batch leaders to poll your group buy members and find out what THEY want, if a large number of group buy leaders request a refund, there will have to start addressing the issue. BitSyncom need to understand that they need to open up channels of communication and address this serious issue which affects hundreds if not thousands of consumers.
6. If this situation continues for much longer, the chips will not be worth their initial cost + development cost.
7. If you have any information about BitSyncom, full personal details,addresses (for legal communication), telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, Links to their personal media pages, personal future appointments at events (dates and locations), any info which will help to make contact, please post it on this thread.
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Your boards are going may be next to worthless by the time you get them. 2nd gen chips are coming out between Oct. and the end of the year. You aren't going to get your boards for another month, maybe longer.
Where is there any evidence of TH and others putting pressure on Avalon? There is more recourse than lawsuit, they can threaten to boycott Avalon. And I don't think a lawsuit is going to take a year or more. Even serving papers for filing suit may get him awake.
I have 2.3 TH/s of mining gear on order. I want my 300 GH/s of Terrahash and Liquid Designs K16s. I'll be fine if I get them in the next 3-4 weeks. They aren't worthless to me. They may be worthless if you only have 4 on order, but 300 GH/s is still viable. As for serving papers, that is a waste of time. By the time anything happened we would long since have our boards. I was a cop and worked in the court system. It would take too long to make anything happen. You don't know when you are getting them. There is no ETA anymore. And it isn't how many GHashes you have, it is how much you paid for it that matters. |
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Your boards are going may be next to worthless by the time you get them. 2nd gen chips are coming out between Oct. and the end of the year. You aren't going to get your boards for another month, maybe longer.
Where is there any evidence of TH and others putting pressure on Avalon? There is more recourse than lawsuit, they can ALL file for refunds, they can threaten to boycott Avalon. And I don't think a lawsuit is going to take a year or more. Even serving papers for filing suit may get him awake.
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As far as selling my pre-order I think I am just going to file with my credit card company, because this is obviously a breech of contract on both Avalon, and although possibly unintentionally, TerraHash as well. We should all have our orders come Aug. 15th
I think we need to push Terrahash to go for a refund on the chips as Bicknellksi is trying to organize with all the group buys.
...
You wont be able to push TH into refund. I got my paypal refund long ago when they didn't meet deadlines they would post, they never even worked within paypal to resolve it. If you get it through route your talking it will be credit card getting cash back, TH will in no way help if past is indicator. I think my credit card takes care of all that. TerraHash needs to push Avalon into a refund. What don't you people get? Contracts were broken - all obligations for payment on our part and TH and group buys is void. Avalon owes us our money back. We all should have out Klondikes by now (well, by the 15th). Its time, actually past time to get the Avalon refund in process. It should really concern you all that TH is not even trying to put pressure on Avalon. |
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Agree Bicknellski. I have posted a link to this topic in the TerraHash thread. Please make a post over there. There were tons of orders placed but I don't hear anything from anyone.
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As far as selling my pre-order I think I am just going to file with my credit card company, because this is obviously a breech of contract on both Avalon, and although possibly unintentionally, TerraHash as well. We should all have our orders come Aug. 15th I think we need to push Terrahash to go for a refund on the chips as Bicknellksi is trying to organize with all the group buys. Avalon violated the contract with the group buys and with all of us investors. They need to refund and or compensate. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270897.20We aren't even hearing a word from Avalon on this. No word that they are trying to contact Yifu or about what they are going to do to get our chips. Everyone is dropping the ball. |
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Where is the best place to sell a pre-order?
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Libertarians aren't anarchists. Free market proponents uphold contract law.
anarchists also uphold contract law. The difference is in the way they each choose to do so. Libertarians choose a limited government, whereas anarchists believe in the use of the market to develop ways to solve contract disputes or the individual can do it. "Yifu is a four letter word." |
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If you haven't watched this video, then you should. Actually I found this very impressive. Yifu obviously knows his shit" this is one of the best question and answer sessions I have seen in recent memory. I wouldn't under estimate this guy in terms of his abilty. This was just a little over 9 weeks ago. So pull up a chair, grab a beer or coffee or both  and listen to how he addresses things. Pretty darn smart for a young guy. He has accomplished more than I first gave him credit for. Until now in my mind he was just the guy with the asic chips etc. Found this 25 minute video very interesting in many ways, in contrast to what has been being said in here. Guess if we dont like how he operates then we can always start our own asic machine building company enjoy..meet mr. yifu lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1xgGiejIcIt certainly takes a lot of dedication and technical knowledge to pull this off, but not impressed. |
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Oh boy I hope your wrong! It seems like TH would not have been able to deliver had the ASIC's arrived on schedule.
No, they are still waiting on parts. They did say that had placed more batch order to fill the pre-orders to date but then they just admitted that this isn't true. Neither TH, nor Yifu, nor any other ASIC supplier ever gives a straight answer to any of these questions - they always give some half-truth and then correct it later but with another half-truth. Either they are scammers or they fear that if they told the truth they would be out. Then I think there are a few on these boards whose job it is to keep everyone looking forward to that eventual day when they arrive. |
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I agree Lazer Horse. We got fed some BS. It looks like he literally picked a few of the stories posted about in the thread and put those down as explanations. He has to have more precise information than what he gave.
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This is what unregulated looks like. Sure there are fraudsters. Nothing stops that. Sure there are scams. Nothing stops that either. But at least here you have a CHOICE. You weren't required to trust Yifu. You decided to. I decided to. We all did. We made a mistake. We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks. Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.
Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep. So did BFL. This isn't the first time and won't be the last. But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.
Caveat Emptor, right? Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.
ALL asic purchases are a gamble, especially on the said delivery window,,,,,they all suck,,, It's because people's greed overrides common sense, in other industries you wouldn't do pre-payments for months or year in advance! The sellers have preying on the fear of increasing difficulty to drown out logical thinking. There are pre-orders in video games. |
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This is what unregulated looks like. Sure there are fraudsters. Nothing stops that. Sure there are scams. Nothing stops that either. But at least here you have a CHOICE. You weren't required to trust Yifu. You decided to. I decided to. We all did. We made a mistake. We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks. Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.
Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep. So did BFL. This isn't the first time and won't be the last. But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.
What sucks, though is that the people who did take the completely blind, initial risk did get their payoff, and Avalon built up trust before the chip orders. I think that's what people don't understand about totally unregulated markets. Libertarians always talk about how if a company does bad, they'll ruin their brand. We're seeing that in action. But the flip side is that when people build up brand equity, it means they can cash that equity out. Make promises using the brand in exchange for tons of money - and then fail. You no longer have the brand, but now you've got all the money. That's one thing "Vulture Capitalists" do. It's also what AIG did - used it's 100 year insurance pedigree to sell credit default swaps it couldn't actually cover. They can "cash out" justly so long as they don't violate a contract, whether written or verbal. |
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Thank You for thinking about this critically. The chips were made. Who has them and why don't we? There only so many possibilities. They were either stolen, bought by a higher bidder, they are not held up in customs (complete BS story), are intentionally being held back by Yifu only and have not gone out to anyone, or are being held up by Yifu and "others".
Where do you (collective) think the 20% increases have been coming from? Let me ask you something pendejo, where do you think the 20% increases have been coming from? |
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Avalon Guys are Straight,
They won't cheat on you like BFL....
We were within the first guys who ordered 1 Batch of ASICS and it was shipped almost 2 weeks ago ( it was 5 days in customs- since monday) ....So it all depends on when you made your order...
You should better worry about other things and have the PCBs and parts ready for the arrival of the chips.
Ok, so you were one of the first buyers... but zefir ordered at least 2 batches on the first day of opening too... and he only got one batch. So what does it say when only 2 batches were shipped when a month ago there were a huge amount of chips in boxes shown that were already created? Were are these chips now? Regardless... Yifu only speaks about 20 batches in customs... thats nothing compared to the amount of chips ordered. And even then... they are there only 2 weeks. Which means the chips are late anyway. Why should that be? Yifu know quite well how long it takes to get the chips built. Thats why he waited 5 weeks until he ordered the chips at TSMC. And now it doesnt work anymore? The pictures of the chip boxes seem to talk another way. Someone has those chips but not the normal buyers. But good for you that YOU have your chips. That makes everything ok for the rest of us. Im relieved... Thank You for thinking about this critically. The chips were made. Who has them and why don't we? There only so many possibilities. They were either stolen, bought by a higher bidder, they are not held up in customs (complete BS story), are intentionally being held back by Yifu only and have not gone out to anyone, or are being held up by Yifu and "others".  Yifu escaping the Mafia - detouring through India and the temple of doom. |
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Gosh with all these theories and speculations about what is happening with yifu and the chips and avalon,,its almost easier for me just except what he told us yesterday at face value. How ever bizarre things may seem, they may really be held up in customs and he really may have another chip route and supply in the works? And they really may be in development of Gen 2 chips and 3 and 4..lol. The way I see it is, yifu didnt have to come into the thread and say anything if he was on the take or getting ready to blow us all off, he could have simply just never came back. I certainly don't think all the chatter in here of law suits and all that mumbo jumbo caused him to appear for us,,then tell us some lies and then vanish again. I think there may be some merit to what he has stated to us. I feel, he really didn't know what to tell us for a month,,cause he probably didn't know himself? So now he has something to tell us and he did come back in with a report. Not what we wanted to hear of course, but he did come back. So slam and threatened all we want but its not going to change things at the present time. Perhaps he will come back in today or tomorrow with a better update or maybe news and ETA's of the chips?...ok, my 2 cents for now. Next week at this time it may be another story!!  Its not that he is on the take or getting ready to blow everyone off - he doesn't want to do that because he has future plans for ASICs/tablet devices and such. Like I said, it was never about a full blow-off, it was just "blow them off until....x,y,z", then throw them a bone. We didn't really get any info. Like no ETA, why he didn't try to fix things with customs instead of running off to Amsterdam, etc. Most people, when they aren't sure of what is going to happen don't go into hiding unless you are in the Bitcoin world. Most professionals bite the bullet and say "look, we know you are expecting stuff and some of you have put a lot of time and money into this but this thing has happened and we are working out the details, please stick with us and we think it is possible to have your orders by such and such." The way many of the entities involved in this handle PR is strange - there is no way that just all of them suck at PR by coincidence. They go silent for extended periods of time. They never show that they are trying to get the ball rolling when there are problems. That is what leads me to believe it has nothing to do with PR. There are things going on that we aren't privy to. Don't buy it. And then they try to divert your objections by invoking sympathy for them with fabricated BS about hitmen. |
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Bargraphics knew from the beginning that these miners would not arrive on time which is why he always intended on selling.
Yes, you caught me. I'm actually the customs agent that stopped the shipment. My diabolical plan is still in motion and there is nothing you can do to stop me! *Maniacal laugh* *Maniacal laugh* *Maniacal laugh* In all seriousness, thank you for discrediting any and everything you say from now on with this post. Much appreciated. You don't need to be a customs agent, the chips aren't at customs. Everyone knows you are a trashbag and quite frankly, I don't give two dicks what people think of me on here. I've never heard the expression "Trashbag" before, that's new. I can tell you don't care what people think of you since you spew out illogical nonsense like it is fact. Where are the chips then oh great wise one? I've hid them so well from everyone that I even forgot where they were. I never claimed you had the chips. Some of the group buy organizers have the chips or at least enough of the chips to run some miners. they will eventually ship them out around September or October at the point the new chips will come out for those who can afford them because they profited off the 1st gen and delayed mass chip shipment. That is also when the guys who bought your miners under the assumption they would get them in mid-late july and mid august by the latest will receive theirs. Were more chips sold through Avalon Rigs or through group purchases? I would say group purchases - that hashing power had to be held off until a superior chip was ready to benefit Avalon's initial customers. |
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Bargraphics knew from the beginning that these miners would not arrive on time which is why he always intended on selling.
Yes, you caught me. I'm actually the customs agent that stopped the shipment. My diabolical plan is still in motion and there is nothing you can do to stop me! *Maniacal laugh* *Maniacal laugh* *Maniacal laugh* In all seriousness, thank you for discrediting any and everything you say from now on with this post. Much appreciated. You don't need to be a customs agent, the chips aren't at customs. Everyone knows you are a trashbag and quite frankly, I don't give two dicks what people think of me on here. |
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