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Author Topic: [ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency  (Read 681601 times)
jacobmayes94
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November 20, 2017, 02:01:02 PM
 #2161

Me and my uncle bought about 40 PPC at $1 each. Plan to hold them long term, felt it was a good investment because it is the first POS coin, im amazed its not gone up before now to be honest.
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Verdell
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November 20, 2017, 03:29:21 PM
 #2162

peerchemistPeercoin Project Leader1d
Time to remake peercoin.net, let me know if you are interested with link to your portfolio.

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Sentinelrv
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November 20, 2017, 05:35:00 PM
 #2163

Peercoin Update #8: The Peercoin Team outlines protocol changes that will enable cold minting, a way for proof of stake blocks to be securely minted offline from cold storage, helping to drastically expand the number and participation of minters, increasing network security...

https://medium.com/@PeercoinPulse/a-path-to-cold-minting-252acd310e82

We'd appreciate comments from the community.

Forum Post: https://talk.peercoin.net/t/update-8-a-path-to-cold-minting-a-way-for-proof-of-stake-blocks-to-be-securely-minted-offline-from-cold-storage-expanding-the-participation-of-minters-increasing-network-security/6465

Twitter: https://twitter.com/PeercoinPPC/status/932660836862189569

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7ea6en/a_path_to_cold_minting_a_way_for_proof_of_stake/
d5000
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November 20, 2017, 06:16:39 PM
 #2164

That are awesome news! I'm waiting for cold minting for years ...

Time to come back to Peercointalk? Wink

I've superficially read the Medium article and so far it seems a good proposal, will re-read it later because I've still not entirely understood some of the technical details.

A maybe controversial comment: I'm for the abolition of the concept of coin-days entirely. That would, obviously, mean to follow the path that NXT and Peercoin clones like Blackcoin have taken, and for some may mean "throwing basic Peercoin principles". But afaik research on this topic, by various parties, has shown that coin-days is doing more harm than it is protecting the chain - because attackers, with this mechanism, can always accumulate more power with less stake and once they've accumulated enough power to be near an attack, can only be stopped with immense amounts of "staking coins".

Nagalim
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November 20, 2017, 06:56:24 PM
 #2165

A maybe controversial comment: I'm for the abolition of the concept of coin-days entirely. That would, obviously, mean to follow the path that NXT and Peercoin clones like Blackcoin have taken, and for some may mean "throwing basic Peercoin principles". But afaik research on this topic, by various parties, has shown that coin-days is doing more harm than it is protecting the chain - because attackers, with this mechanism, can always accumulate more power with less stake and once they've accumulated enough power to be near an attack, can only be stopped with immense amounts of "staking coins".

The chainweight in Peercoin's security model was switched from coindays to PoS difficulty some time ago, coindays are only used to determine the mint reward.  So your concerns have already been accounted for in Peercoin.
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November 20, 2017, 07:59:41 PM
 #2166

The chainweight in Peercoin's security model was switched from coindays to PoS difficulty some time ago, coindays are only used to determine the mint reward.  So your concerns have already been accounted for in Peercoin.

Ah, ok, thanks for the information!

In this case, I think Peercoin - with the cold minting feature - would be fully prepared for the abolition of the centrally broadcasted checkpoints.

Nagalim
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November 20, 2017, 08:44:37 PM
 #2167

centrally broadcasted checkpoints.

Checkpoints were made optional via an easily accessible checkbox in v0.6.  Developers still believe checkpoints have value as a voluntary option, especially if we do something like multisig checkpoints in the future.  Turning this feature off is currently as easy as unchecking a box in settings>options.
HichemFetoui
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November 22, 2017, 05:27:22 PM
 #2168

excellent projet .. je vais voir si je peut investir dans ce ico cette année j'ai investit dans beaucoup de ico pourquoi pas celui la  Wink
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November 22, 2017, 11:09:02 PM
 #2169

d5000
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November 23, 2017, 03:40:07 AM
 #2170

Checkpoints were made optional via an easily accessible checkbox in v0.6.  Developers still believe checkpoints have value as a voluntary option, especially if we do something like multisig checkpoints in the future.  Turning this feature off is currently as easy as unchecking a box in settings>options.
Yep, I knew that. However, even if some nodes disable the centrally broadcasted checkpoints, some will still follow them - and that converts them, in theory, in a vulnerability (it's not that the checkpoint key owner had to be an attacker, but it could be the case that his checkpoint server gets "lured" into an attack chain by an attacker), above all, if the checkpoint option is used by nodes that are minting.

I would prefer a rolling checkpoint scheme like in NXT and many other PoS cryptocoins. Or even Vitalik's exponential subjective scoring.

Nagalim
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November 23, 2017, 09:17:25 AM
 #2171

What do you mean when you say "lured into an attack chain"?  If the false chain is does not have more chainweight than the true chain, then you would have to prevent the checkpoint server from accessing the open internet, a feat that becomes very difficult if we implement multisig.  If it does have more chainweight, then it is by definition the true chain, so broadcasting it is not an issue.

Isolating the checkpoint server from the open internet is similar to isolating a single large minter.  You really can't do limitless damage, as all transactions and blocks have to be cryptographically valid.  The maximal disruption is probably along the lines of causing a fork between checkpoint enforced and checkpoint unenforced that will reorg to the heavier chain when the checkpoint server sees the open internet again.
d5000
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November 23, 2017, 09:58:48 PM
 #2172

What do you mean when you say "lured into an attack chain"?  If the false chain is does not have more chainweight than the true chain, then you would have to prevent the checkpoint server from accessing the open internet, a feat that becomes very difficult if we implement multisig.  If it does have more chainweight, then it is by definition the true chain, so broadcasting it is not an issue.

I'm referring here to the "long-range attack" or "history attack" - e.g. the attacker would buy a large stake of coins, deposit them on his wallet (so he can cryptographically prove he "possessed" them), and then sell them again, but secretly minting a chain where he transfers the coins he supposedly sold to an address he controls via a double spend.

This chain would need to be "designed" so that it accumulates more chain weight than the "true" chain (so it's not a cheap attack -> he, in some moment, would have to possess a very large amount of coins, but he can sell them again).

If he can manage to spot the IP address of the "checkpoint server", I suppose he can try to lure him into a reorganization using his attack chain on multiple "fake nodes" that would try to connect to the checkpoint server.

It would be very probably worse than a normal history attack (where the attacker is trying to "lure" large minters into his chain) if most nodes still follow the centrally broadcasted checkpoints.

Nagalim
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November 24, 2017, 05:35:32 AM
 #2173

If the attacker forms a chain with higher chainweight, checkpoints won't hinder or help the reorg.  That higher weight chain will replace all instances of the current chain, regardless of if they have checkpoints enforced or not.  The only way to use checkpoints in an attack is to block the checkpoint server from the open internet.  The thing is, it's near impossible to find the IP address of the checkpoint server, because checkpoint authority is based on a cryptographic signature rather than an IP address.
jc12345
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November 24, 2017, 05:43:39 AM
 #2174

I read somewhere that peercoin is working on an implementation of cold minting from a hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S. When do you foresee this to be implemented?
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November 24, 2017, 07:06:11 AM
 #2175

Cold minting will take a hardfork to accomplish.  It is possible we will see it rolled out in the next couple updates, but as it is still somewhat controversial I would rather not specify a timeline yet.
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November 25, 2017, 08:51:45 AM
 #2176

Join the Peercoin community:
- Chat - https://peercoin.chat/
- Forum - https://talk.peercoin.net/
- Telegram - https://telegram.me/peercoin
- Twitter - https://twitter.com/peercoinppc
- Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/peercoin/
- Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/peercoin
- Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Peercoin
reffi
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November 25, 2017, 06:11:42 PM
 #2177

PPC is one of the oldest legacy coins out there, its like a close family friend, hope it finally has a chance to go $50 next year!
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November 26, 2017, 07:59:53 AM
 #2178

In 2017 Many ICOs were created. When fake ico lost credibility. Investors are looking for old coins.
d5000
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November 26, 2017, 12:16:50 PM
 #2179

If the attacker forms a chain with higher chainweight, checkpoints won't hinder or help the reorg.  That higher weight chain will replace all instances of the current chain, regardless of if they have checkpoints enforced or not.
In this scenario, a long-range double-spend attacker would always be successful (and checkpoints would only be helpful for short-range forks),

As far as I have understand Vitalik Buterin's "Weak Subjectivity" paradigm, this behaviour (the chain with the highest weight winning every time, even if it's a fake chain) should be avoided at all costs, because even if the attack is difficult and expensive, there is an incentive to try it if you always will be successful.

Chain-weight, unfortunately in PoS coins is not objective, because it can be faked. That's why some pure PoS coins prohibit long reorgs (the "rolling checkpoints" I mentioned before) and use techniques like Economic Clustering to know if well-known nodes like exchanges are on the same chain like you. With these mechanisms it can be avoided that the attacker "establishes" his attack chain, because most nodes won't follow him even if his chain-weight is higher. But yes, you sacrifice "objectivity" - but at the same time, you dis-incentive these attacks, so they become almost impossible.


Nagalim
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November 26, 2017, 01:11:17 PM
 #2180

I don's understand what you mean when you talk about 'faking chainweight'.  If you have a heavier chainweight, your chain is the 'real' chain by definition.  What is your definition of a 'fake chain'?
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