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Author Topic: [ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency  (Read 652030 times)
agx.io
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April 10, 2014, 07:48:39 PM
 #1701

PPC/BTC market is back up after trade engine updates at agx.io!

- The Austin Global Team

Find us at:
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bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=507474
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April 11, 2014, 05:37:13 PM
 #1702



Join COMKORT and trade PPC at an exchange with the most convenient interface and super-responsive tech support

    71 coins X 3 markets

    low fees

    lots of great features

    safe and secure


Try once, and you will not want to switch!

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April 11, 2014, 07:55:50 PM
 #1703

Great coin!
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April 14, 2014, 03:15:44 PM
 #1704

Yeah, some truth there. I tried once upon a time to get a definite formula to code for a proof of stake and it all vapourised, turned out there was not yet any actual concrete design ready to code.

-MarkM-

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April 28, 2014, 07:53:13 PM
 #1705

Hi PPCoin fans,

We opened some PPCoin Pairs on our website

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May 03, 2014, 02:50:36 PM
 #1706

old coin
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May 03, 2014, 02:51:12 PM
 #1707

god coin!!!
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May 07, 2014, 09:04:59 PM
 #1708

VOTE FOR PPCOIN
please donate for dev.
BTC: 13MVMftimCmpQEsryo47pTs97ubmwkT31Y
LTC: Lh9ChfS1X3YWXmapr66nQjj3qZmys3qkNw
DOGE: DJMxzVrURhmsWFZHCjK5kDVHEqP5FcfGvy
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May 13, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
 #1709

Coinnext Exchange added PPC. Trade PPC/BTC https://coinnext.com/trade/PPC/BTC

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May 27, 2014, 07:05:25 PM
 #1710

A critical vulnerability in PoS?

1. Halving POS-transaction

I see, at POS generation, wallet splits transaction by half, if age less
then 90 days.

There is missing detailed explanation, why it doing.
We assume, it made for preserve attack to POS block by carousel with
chain of huge transactions,
when value of some huge transaction grows and grows, and small set of
rich transaction like this
is occupy POS-engine, and disallow to another transactions participate
in POS.

However we see, there is splitting small transaction values, too.
for example, see emercoin block:
http://darkgamex.ch:2752/block/3245626c36497e6d82d68a20c2e00fcd75f938bf780333d3a5038dea71ba4aab
There is divided transaction with small value - 50EMC only.
We thinking, often split like this just unnecessary increases blockchain
size, and produce future transactions with higher size.
So, we decided to setup bottom threshold, and transaction with value
less than that threshold will not be split.

There is our changes:

wallet.cpp:1336
-                if (block.GetBlockTime() + nStakeSplitAge > txNew.nTime)
-                    txNew.vout.push_back(CTxOut(0, scriptPubKeyOut));
//split stake
+                if (block.GetBlockTime() + nStakeSplitAge > txNew.nTime
&& nCredit > nCombineThreshold)
+                    txNew.vout.push_back(CTxOut(0, scriptPubKeyOut));
//split stake if (age < 90 && value > POW/3)

So our question:
Are our changes reasonable? Can it hurt security with some way, which we
not aware?
Can you share your opinion?


2. POS attack - is possible?

Imagine, I do following:

1. Prepare set of 32 "special mature transactions" UTXOs.
Each transaction has relative big value, and matured for long time - for
example, 90 days.

2. Prepare 32 * 32 small "junk transactions" UTXOs.

3. Also, I modify my wallet to generate POS-block with using
IN-transactions, whose I wish.

4. I run quick loop with attempts to generate POS-block (not every
second, but just in the for loop).
    On each loop iteration, I select for my minting transaction inputs
    4.1. - one "special" transaction from [1]
    4.2. - subset of "junk set transaction" [2], selected by bits in the
iteration counter.

5.  As result of [4.1] there will be high probability of pass through
POS-barrier:
 if (CBigNum(hashProofOfStake) > bnCoinDayWeight * bnTargetPerCoinDay)
   As result of  [4.2] there will be different hash values on each
iteration, so
I can generate many attempts to create POS-block with a different hashes.
Therefore tith this way, I have very high probability to generate my own
POS-block.

6. If so, I can create uninterrupted sequence of 32 my own POS-blocks,
and by this way -
rollback some fresh transaction, i.e. produce result like attack 51%.

Question: Is this attack possible? Or, I missing something, and cannot
see whole picture?

I asked Sunny King these questions, but received no reply.

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May 28, 2014, 01:26:32 AM
 #1711

A critical vulnerability in PoS?


Sunny doesn't answer technical questions these days probably because similar questions have been asked/answered before. You are welcom to ask in http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?board=3.0 where there are several Peershares developers who are very competent in technical issues.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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May 31, 2014, 04:37:08 PM
 #1712

I have two short questions about Peercoin.

The PoW reward is diminished by half every time there's a 16x increase in the network. So if Peercoin's value was to drop considerably, miners would leave for Bitcoin, so the PoW reward would go back up, thus increasing inflation and contributing to a further price decline. Is that not a problem?
Also, is Peercoin truly more energy-efficient, since the block reward halvings need a considerable 16x increase in the hashrate to happen?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

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May 31, 2014, 04:53:15 PM
 #1713

I have two short questions about Peercoin.

The PoW reward is diminished by half every time there's a 16x increase in the network. So if Peercoin's value was to drop considerably, miners would leave for Bitcoin, so the PoW reward would go back up, thus increasing inflation and contributing to a further price decline. Is that not a problem?
Also, is Peercoin truly more energy-efficient, since the block reward halvings need a considerable 16x increase in the hashrate to happen?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Inflation doesn't influence price much. Most price action is because of confidence in cryptocurrency in general and in speculative trading.

POW is used to distribute coins more fairly.  POS is used to secure the network with little energy consumption. Eventually (10 years?) POS will dominate money supply, too.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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May 31, 2014, 05:00:20 PM
 #1714

Inflation doesn't influence price much. Most price action is because of confidence in cryptocurrency in general and in speculative trading.
You're right that's a good point; right now cryptocurrencies are growing quite faster than the current x% yearly inflation rate of Peercoin.

POW is used to distribute coins more fairly.  POS is used to secure the network with little energy consumption. Eventually (10 years?) POS will dominate money supply, too.

Will Peercoin's code change then for that to happen? Because as I see it, if it becomes worth a lot, there will still be many, many miners even if the block reward is 10% of what it is now.

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June 04, 2014, 04:11:17 AM
 #1715

POW is used to distribute coins more fairly.  POS is used to secure the network with little energy consumption. Eventually (10 years?) POS will dominate money supply, too.

Will Peercoin's code change then for that to happen? Because as I see it, if it becomes worth a lot, there will still be many, many miners even if the block reward is 10% of what it is now.

POW reward for PPC drops steeply as network hashing speed increases. PPC is now rarer than BTC already in coin production rate. No code change needed for that.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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June 04, 2014, 04:15:54 AM
 #1716

POW is used to distribute coins more fairly.  POS is used to secure the network with little energy consumption. Eventually (10 years?) POS will dominate money supply, too.

Will Peercoin's code change then for that to happen? Because as I see it, if it becomes worth a lot, there will still be many, many miners even if the block reward is 10% of what it is now.

POW reward for PPC drops steeply as network hashing speed increases. PPC is now rarer than BTC already in coin production rate. No code change needed for that.

I am aware of that. However, actually the block reward of Peercoin is about 86 PPC. If I understand correctly, for it to drop to 43, we would need the hashrate to grow 16x. So by the time Peercoin's PoW block reward is negligible, the hashrate will be quite massive.

That seems contradictory, since one of Peercoin's selling point is its energy efficiency. Is there something I missed?

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June 04, 2014, 04:31:20 AM
 #1717


That seems contradictory, since one of Peercoin's selling point is its energy efficiency. Is there something I missed?

You missed the "long-term" in the title. In a couple of years hash rate owned by one person will dwarf the entire network today. In the last 6 months PPC network hash power increased more than 100 times. Moores Law works. POW only makes 1/5 PPC blocks today. It will be even more marginalized.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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June 04, 2014, 02:08:44 PM
 #1718


That seems contradictory, since one of Peercoin's selling point is its energy efficiency. Is there something I missed?

You missed the "long-term" in the title. In a couple of years hash rate owned by one person will dwarf the entire network today. In the last 6 months PPC network hash power increased more than 100 times. Moores Law works. POW only makes 1/5 PPC blocks today. It will be even more marginalized.

I see, so what you're saying is that, if Bitcoin gets more popular and expensive, its hashrate will probably grow to be a hundreds of times bigger than what it is now, while Peercoin's would never grow to such levels and would stabilize at approximately the current Bitcoin hashrate?

That makes sense, thanks for your help!

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June 05, 2014, 01:02:25 AM
 #1719


I see, so what you're saying is that, if Bitcoin gets more popular and expensive, its hashrate will probably grow to be a hundreds of times bigger than what it is now, while Peercoin's would never grow to such levels and would stabilize at approximately the current Bitcoin hashrate?

uh, not what I said. Suppose PPC/BTC staysat today's level, 0.003ish. What happens when there is a huge increase in BTC hash power but not in PPC? BTC will be more difficult to mine compared with PPC so some people will start to mine PPC to sell for BTC. Since both coins use the same algorithm, market will adjust so that hash power distributioin will always agree with PPC/BTC rate. So PPC network hash power will increase as long as BTC hash power does.

The same thing is true among all coins. The increase of hash  power of one coin will affect difficulties and exchange rate of all coins.

I am not sure if BTC will get more "expensive". Price is affected by confidence. People gain or lose confidence for all sort of reasons. same is true for PPC/BTC

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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June 05, 2014, 03:45:20 PM
 #1720


I see, so what you're saying is that, if Bitcoin gets more popular and expensive, its hashrate will probably grow to be a hundreds of times bigger than what it is now, while Peercoin's would never grow to such levels and would stabilize at approximately the current Bitcoin hashrate?

uh, not what I said. Suppose PPC/BTC staysat today's level, 0.003ish. What happens when there is a huge increase in BTC hash power but not in PPC? BTC will be more difficult to mine compared with PPC so some people will start to mine PPC to sell for BTC. Since both coins use the same algorithm, market will adjust so that hash power distributioin will always agree with PPC/BTC rate. So PPC network hash power will increase as long as BTC hash power does.

The same thing is true among all coins. The increase of hash  power of one coin will affect difficulties and exchange rate of all coins.

I am not sure if BTC will get more "expensive". Price is affected by confidence. People gain or lose confidence for all sort of reasons. same is true for PPC/BTC

Yeah that I understand, however, that does not answer my question. How is Peercoin energy-efficient if it will infinitely continue to be produced by PoW with the hashrate predictibly growing at the same rate as BTC's?

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