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Author Topic: [ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency  (Read 681777 times)
dreamwatcher
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September 25, 2012, 06:07:08 PM
 #461

i got a stake block today. i don't know what it is but i am huppy :p
i am mining solo. "stake" blocks are only available during solo?

Proof of stake blocks are based on the amount of "coin days" you have in a account. You do not need to "mine" in the conventional sense to get them. Just have coins 30+ days since the last time they were spent in your account. When you generate a proof of stake block, so many "coin days" are destroyed (not the coins themselves, you still have them to save, spend..whatever)

Mining in the conventional sense is what is called "Proof of work" blocks, you mine by solving a hash below a target value, hence "work".

Proof Of stake = "Mining" based on number of coins in account unspent for > 30 days. Coin days are used up to generate a block.

Proof of work = Mining using cpu/gpu to solve hashes and generate blocks.

Proof of Stake is what makes PPC unique as no other active coin uses it.
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September 25, 2012, 07:38:34 PM
 #462

then even if you don't mine any more, just by having coins in your acount, stake blocks are appeared?
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September 25, 2012, 07:56:34 PM
 #463

Quote
"balance" : 4094.57000000,
    "newmint" : 691.10000000,
    "stake" : 0.00000000,

    "blocks" : 7217,
    "moneysupply" : 9301687.32034700,
..
    "ip" : "74.114.29.111",
    "difficulty" : 10893.90880867,
    "keypoololdest" : 1345480350,
    "keypoolsize" : 102,
}
I would like to get explained what value represent "Coin day"

I had 400 as a stake and it disapeared, Will all my balance / newmint become stake after > 30 days ?
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September 25, 2012, 07:57:08 PM
 #464

then even if you don't mine any more, just by having coins in your acount, stake blocks are appeared?


Yes, hence the theory behind the energy efficiency of PPC.

The idea that eventually there will be enough proof of stake blocks being generated, that proof of work blocks will not be necessary to keep the PPC network running.
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September 25, 2012, 08:39:22 PM
 #465

Quote
"balance" : 4094.57000000,
    "newmint" : 691.10000000,
    "stake" : 0.00000000,

    "blocks" : 7217,
    "moneysupply" : 9301687.32034700,
..
    "ip" : "74.114.29.111",
    "difficulty" : 10893.90880867,
    "keypoololdest" : 1345480350,
    "keypoolsize" : 102,
}
I would like to get explained what value represent "Coin day"

I had 400 as a stake and it disapeared, Will all my balance / newmint become stake after > 30 days ?


I believe "Coin days" used to be listed in the getinfo, but I am not 100 % certain.

I have been looking through the source code so much lately and "coin days" is how age is referred to so that is how I think of it.

For example:
" ppcoin: total coin age spent in transaction, in the unit of coin-days.
// Only those coins meeting minimum age requirement counts. As those
// transactions not in main chain are not currently indexed so we
// might not find out about their coin age. Older transactions are
// guaranteed to be in main chain by sync-checkpoint. This rule is
// introduced to help nodes establish a consistent view of the coin
// age (trust score) of competing branches."


Essentially a coin day is equal to 1 PPC that is unspent for 1 day.

From the Wikki: (https://github.com/ppcoin/ppcoin/wiki/FAQ)

When can I start generating proof-of-stake blocks?

After 30 days the network would start seeing proof-of-stake blocks. If you have balance ppcoind would automatically try to generate stake for you. If you find a stake the reward is 1 cent per coin-year consumed (can be roughly understood as 1% interest annually). The reward amount is added to your stake amount and is shown together in the 'stake' field of getinfo output.



I am not totally sure how the display of "stake" related to balance and new mint is interconnected. I have been mostly looking at script sigs and hashes, so perhaps somebody else will chime in with a better explanation of how the fields in the getinfo output interrelate.
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September 25, 2012, 09:20:33 PM
 #466

I would like to get explained what value represent "Coin day"

I had 400 as a stake and it disapeared, Will all my balance / newmint become stake after > 30 days ?

Coin-day comes from the concept of coin age as the amount of currency holding times the length of the holding period. If you hold 1000 coins for 30 days you have 30000 coin-days of coin age accumulated on these coins.

Stake does not 'disappear', as it simply returns to balance when stake matures (after 520 blocks). There is a small chance that all or a large part of your balance turns into stake (although usually it generates stake gradually) so we provided a 'reservebalance' configuration to keep part of your balance for immediate use.

newmint cannot transfer to stake as it first needs to mature into balance.


I am not totally sure how the display of "stake" related to balance and new mint is interconnected. I have been mostly looking at script sigs and hashes, so perhaps somebody else will chime in with a better explanation of how the fields in the getinfo output interrelate.


Relation between balance/newmint/stake
newmint --> balance (newmint matures into balance)
balance <--> stake (balance transfers into stake and then matures back into balance)
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September 26, 2012, 05:29:36 AM
 #467

Yeah, I'm confused.

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September 26, 2012, 09:28:56 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2012, 11:38:32 AM by dreamwatcher
 #468

SOLVED     Grin


I have solved the "unknown address" bug in the PPC explorer and the new version has been uploaded to the server.

I am going to start my own thread for the PPC explorer website now, further details will be posted there.
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September 26, 2012, 03:31:32 PM
 #469

When will we see PPC on the BTC-e exchange?

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September 26, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
Last edit: September 27, 2012, 03:12:25 PM by Sunny King
 #470

I have updated FAQ section on checkpointing:

Quote
Why do you need central checkpointing?

As of our v0.2 centrally broadcasted checkpointing is no longer a critical part of the protocol. It's main purpose now is to defend the network during the initial growth period and help ensure a smooth upgrade path if critical vulnerability is found. We are confident that central checkpointing can now be gradually weakened and eventually removed to achieve similar decentralization level of Bitcoin as the ppcoin network matures.


There is still some alter coin designer throwing FUD out there to claim that our design is not a proper proof-of-stake design and is based on centralized checkpointing. So I would like to repeat here that central checkpointing now only serves as bootstrapping safeguard, not a permanent part of the protocol.

As to Rosenfeld/Cunicula's proof-of-stake proposals on Bitcoin wiki, they are competing proof-of-stake designs but not necessarily better than ppcoin. The design goals are different. PPCoin is designed to demonstrate that a future energy efficient block chain is possible, i.e. solving the energy consumption issue of cryptocurrency. This is a very hard problem to solve and in my opinion would be an important step forward for future cryptocurrency technology. Also we came up with ppcoin design probably around or before when Rosenfeld/Cunicula did theirs (we started design work in October 2011), not to mention their designs today are still somewhat proof-of-concept and may or may not be ready for any implementation.

From my point of view I am all for competing in free market fairly and friendly, and all the different alter currencies should treat each other part of a larger team to further advance cryptocurrency technology and maybe even a higher cause for humanity. That's why we choose to continue the tradition of Nakamoto and release ppcoin in MIT license and open for everyone to fork, experiment and compete. For me I am committed to continue work on and watch ppcoin network operations and see ppcoin fulfill its promises.

Thank you all for your kind support!

(Correction: As cunicula points out below, he and Meni Rosenfeld started their designs as early as July 2011 so about three months earlier than ppcoin design)
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September 26, 2012, 08:25:45 PM
 #471

Is there anything about the ppcoin protocol that will prevent bitcoin ASIC's from mining it?  If there is, I'd see ppc as a legit alternate mining market where non ASIC tech could potentially thrive.


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September 26, 2012, 09:44:13 PM
 #472

Anything stopping ppcoin from being merge-mined ?
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September 26, 2012, 09:52:24 PM
 #473

Anything stopping ppcoin from being merge-mined ?

My understanding is that the designers of ppcoin wanted it not to be MM compatible, and its definitely not currently.

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September 26, 2012, 10:23:34 PM
 #474

Is there anything about the ppcoin protocol that will prevent bitcoin ASIC's from mining it?  If there is, I'd see ppc as a legit alternate mining market where non ASIC tech could potentially thrive.

Unlike Litecoin we do not try to hamper ASIC technology based on some democratic ideology. My understanding of the market is that whoever invests in ASIC probably deserves the mining income, as everyone is free to do so by their own choice. Not to mention once ASIC is fully deployed Bitcoin network would become more secure against 51% attack. But I don't think initially ASIC owners would mine ppcoin as our mining market is quite small, and our continuous adjustment of difficulty would be too much risk for them to lose money compared to mining bitcoin.

But we shall see what happens in a few short months I guess. If so happens that Litecoin benefits a lot from this technology shift I am happy for Litecoin too as that'd be their deserved reward from the market.
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September 27, 2012, 03:52:03 AM
 #475

what is the status of this? How many adopters, market cap...please post in OP

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September 27, 2012, 09:40:45 AM
 #476

Also we came up with ppcoin design probably around or before when Rosenfeld/Cunicula did theirs (we started design work in October 2011)

Thanks for doing all the hard work to create this great project.

However, for the record:

1) Proof-of-stake is brought up by Quantum Mechanic in mid-July. Meni, myself, and others, discus implementations shortly afterwards.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27787.msg349645#msg349645

2) Pure proof-of-stake implementations based on coin-age are brought up in mid-August 2011.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37194.msg462913#msg462913




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September 27, 2012, 02:07:19 PM
 #477

Thanks for doing all the hard work to create this great project.

However, for the record:

1) Proof-of-stake is brought up by Quantum Mechanic in mid-July. Meni, myself, and others, discus implementations shortly afterwards.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27787.msg349645#msg349645

2) Pure proof-of-stake implementations based on coin-age are brought up in mid-August 2011.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37194.msg462913#msg462913

Cunicula you are one of the more reasonable ones among fellow designers and willing to give some credit to ppcoin project. So thanks for that.

I'd give you that you and meni started your designs a couple months before us. Although we are the first to bring a working design to the market.
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September 30, 2012, 05:27:26 PM
 #478

Weekly Update #6

  • This week we have seen a lot more proof-of-stake blocks generated on the block chain. More and more users are seeing stake values and getting familiar with the proof-of-stake process. It is expected that proof-of-stake difficulty continue to drop from the current 16 in the following week. Eventually proof-of-stake block should approach 10-minute block spacing target and proof-of-work blocks approach ~30-minute spacing.
  • I have published an auxiliary transaction proposal for a future major release of ppcoin. In my opinion it would enable ppcoin to serve as a general peer-to-peer infrastructure for many advanced future peer-to-peer applications, such as marketplace. Interested developers are welcome to review the proposal and give comments and suggestions.
  • Work has started on v0.3. My current plan is to have v0.3 ready within four weeks approximately.

Thank all for your kind support and have a great week!
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October 01, 2012, 09:27:49 PM
 #479

Good,

Could you make a locked thread we can subscribe to to get these updates ?

Weekly updates are linked on wiki page: https://github.com/ppcoin/ppcoin/wiki/Weekly-updates

+1 but I don't see an easy way to get email notifications with the wiki.
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October 02, 2012, 12:46:01 AM
 #480

Sorry for the silly question but Is Sunny King / Sunny K the owner of BFL ?

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