[ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency

[Sunny King]

ppcoin.org currently down. working with hosting support.

Please directly go to sourceforge/github for your need at the moment.

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[Sunny King]

ppcoin.org is up now.

[Sturmvogel]

i just started with ppcoin.
my wallet: PGckE52g6rTz4VzXfW1X93y2rMfZcyv4qS
good pool?

http://ppcpool.bitparking.com

[Sunny King]

PPCoin?! Ha-ha!  This is a dying currency. Initially, without any infrastructure. one exchange and one exchanger, who needs it? Even the creators do not care that all the players dropped the chips and left.

Yes, really funny. In the past I believed in PPCoin but now I see it is absolutely useless. Market imploded. Why of mine, if they can not be traded on any exchange or on the BTC? There is no shop, no casino, no infrastructure!

You have a lot of coins, but the future of their sad.

I would like to address this sentiment, because I think mech is probably not the only one feeling disappointed.

I care about ppcoin project a lot. But that alone wouldn't determine the market for ppcoin. Most people can see how much work I have put into this project if they pay attention. If you think the project would be abandoned by me just because money is only flowing to BTC and LTC right now, you are very wrong.

I have repeatedly warned investors about risks. One should only invest what one can afford to lose 100%. Am I disappointed about the recent market dynamics? Yeah sure who wouldn't? But so what?! I wasn't in this project for profit in the first place. I consider ppcoin some of the best works I have done in my career, even though it doesn't pay me salaries. I will definitely produce more good work in the future. Just last few days I started official faucet on website.

Looking around, I think it's fair to say that ppcoin is one of the most active project in altcoins and one of the most innovative. I am set to continue on this path.

P.S. PPC is currently suppported by 3 exchanges, and SRoulette accepts PPC bets. Neotrix's new exchange will soon open with PPC support as well. If you want to see more infrastructures, why don't you start a thread about it to show some interest? Maybe people would then take note and start working on it.

[Vitalicus]

Sunny, what is the addres of SRoulette ?

[Sunny King]

Sunny, what is the addres of SRoulette ?

http://satoshiroulette.com/?mode=PPC
Hey, don't throw all your hard earned ppcoins away 

[Jutarul]

I would like to address this sentiment, because I think mech is probably not the only one feeling disappointed.

I care about ppcoin project a lot. ...

Glad to hear that. Although I didn't doubt your commitment.

The downward market correction is probably a healthy situation, because it discourages speculators and allows the coins to be redistributed to the people with a more technical background, and the ability to analyze the cryptocurrency. This is in particular important since the POS concept is still under scrutiny.

That said - there may be a bit disillusionment going on by realizing that it's not the cryptocurrency alone which makes it money. There have to be people willing to exchange them for goods and services.

It is very important that we keep the development of alternative cryptocurrencies alive, for the sake of the concept of cryptocurrencies.

[mech]

Sunny! You certainly programmer and mathematician higher level, but you must understand, PPCoin able to benefit people, not only as a pretentious abstraction, but as a tool for business.

We are now at an impasse. And it is understood by all who collected / extracted significant amounts of PPC
They do not cash out, it is time. And if you do not cash out, then it makes no sense to produce more. If there is no production network will collapse, stagnation and death.
We can say the currency is on the verge of profitability of 50% of BTC.

So, the only way out for all shareholders - to invest in infrastructure. I'm not a programmer, I do not know how to write web gateways. But programmers have to adapt and work gateways BTC easier than designing from scratch.

The first thing in my opinion - to disengage from BTC - he would kill us.

PPC shall be freely convertible!

Open exchanger for real currency, with minimal interest!

The main idea of ​​crypto-currency should be in first place (anonymous transactions) First! Then start the exchange, along with it will increase circulation, and even then the interest and capitalization.

[Sunny King]

Mech, I appreciate your inputs, I actually pretty much agree with most of what you said.

Of course it would be nice to have people holding lots of PPC to jump start say a payment processor and promote it to businesses. But it's not easy, it's a lot of risks to take on such a project for entrepreneurs. So far LTC with its $2m market still doesn't seem to have one. But there certainly can be smaller steps that each of us can take to promote ppc, I am trying my best to do my part. I hope all of you holding ppc also try to contribute some efforts, doesn't have to be major but little by little I think eventually we will get there.

As to USD trade, neotrix said his new exchange would support PPC/USD pair.

I also agree with Jutarul that a correction could be healthy. In fact talking about correction I don't think ppcoin has even corrected that much in terms of USD, but in terms of BTC it looks not good, as speculators trying to raise cash to chase the momentum in BTC/LTC. But remember even the mighty BTC once corrected from $30 to $2, just to put things into perspective. Recently DVC and other smaller altcoins like FRC all dropped against BTC. So far I don't see them giving up in frustration either.

[EskimoBob]

Sunny! You certainly programmer and mathematician higher level, but you must understand, PPCoin able to benefit people, not only as a pretentious abstraction, but as a tool for business.

We are now at an impasse. And it is understood by all who collected / extracted significant amounts of PPC
They do not cash out, it is time. And if you do not cash out, then it makes no sense to produce more. If there is no production network will collapse, stagnation and death.
We can say the currency is on the verge of profitability of 50% of BTC.

So, the only way out for all shareholders - to invest in infrastructure. I'm not a programmer, I do not know how to write web gateways. But programmers have to adapt and work gateways BTC easier than designing from scratch.

The first thing in my opinion - to disengage from BTC - he would kill us.

PPC shall be freely convertible!

Open exchanger for real currency, with minimal interest!

The main idea of ​​crypto-currency should be in first place (anonymous transactions) First! Then start the exchange, along with it will increase circulation, and even then the interest and capitalization.

+1

[Jutarul]

The first thing in my opinion - to disengage from BTC - he would kill us.
The main idea of ​​crypto-currency should be in first place (anonymous transactions) First! Then start the exchange, along with it will increase circulation, and even then the interest and capitalization.

+1

I have to disagree on that though. You don't have to invent the wheel (and in this case the infrastructure to convert fiat into cryptocurrency) twice. Let BTC handle that.

What needs to be defined is a niche in which PPC can thrive. Something a big cryptocurrency is inherently bad at. Think about it. I haven't.

[mech]

As to USD trade, neotrix said his new exchange would support PPC/USD pair.

I also agree with Jutarul that a correction could be healthy. In fact talking about correction I don't think ppcoin has even corrected that much in terms of USD, but in terms of BTC it looks not good, as speculators trying to raise cash to chase the momentum in BTC/LTC.

Very good!

Please do more reviews of such services, even planned. Information reason - a reason for interest. "The rumors are buying."
But why USD? Why cling to the virtual and the most controlled currency? Why not share on CNY, RUB, perhaps IQD? An alternative way to share would be greatly needed and intermediaries in the form of USD, here is not required!
Trans Pacific trade exceeded Trans Atlantic.
If the currency is experimental, let's experiment!

In the case. Let's do a fund for the promotion of development and public relations, at least the public account. The vote will decide where the money will go.

[Sunny King]

To improve the liquidity in currency market it takes time. I think first getting more users to know ppcoin's innovations and start trying it, as interest grows the entrepreneurs would be more willing to take those risks.

I will do my part on the development of ppc, but I do need some of our supporters to take on the public relations front. I can only do so much alone so all your help is of course very important to the entire community. Since ppcoin's debut so far there is very little interest with the press. Nor did any independent journalist/bloggers ever contacted me. Jutarul used to say I am a public figure but I kinda of think that we are far from there yet because really nobody is interested.

I believe with some patience and effort together we could eventually grow out of the small technical circles that comprises most of our community right now. Yeah I think the future is optimistic.

[H@ml3t]

Hello all together,

I have been following PPCoin and this thread for quite some time. Now, with you talking about how to generate a higher adaption of PPCoin I think it is time for me to write something instead of just reading.

I think the main point in the slow adaption of PPCoin is that it, as of now, does not provide any benefits to end-users and miners (unlike ltc and nvc) compared to btc. I mean at the moment btc works pretty fine and the problems with deflation spiral and network instability due to lower mining reward will only come to an effect in the coming years.

What needs to be defined is a niche in which PPC can thrive. Something a big cryptocurrency is inherently bad at. Think about it. I haven't.

Actually, there is a thing where a big cryptocurrency is inherently bad at, and this is the blocksize limit. In the last days the soft blocksize limit in btc has been reached and people are slowly starting to freakout, see this two threads of many:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149668.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150493.0

This is already delaying transactions in the bitcoin network and the problem will continue to grow. Bitcoin is in a trap by design, from now on transaction fees will continue to grow in order to do a fast transaction. Bitcoin can't just fix this issue as in the future they need the fees to satisfy miners. On the other hand high transaction fees are contrary to the intention of bitcoin.

I see this as a huge chance for ppcoin as with pos fees are not needed to prevent >50% attacks in the future. As I understand it fees are only needed so that know one can dos the network for cheap.

I dont have much time now, I will outline some thoughts I have on how PPCoin could propose a good solution to this dilemma later or tomorrow. First of all I have a question, what is the current soft and hardcoded blocksize limit in PPCoin?

Best regards,
hamlet

[Jutarul]

I see this as a huge chance for ppcoin as with pos fees are not needed to prevent >50% attacks in the future. As I understand it fees are only needed so that know one can dos the network for cheap.

ppcoin is subject to the same deficiencies with respect to transaction spam and blockchain bloat. It didn't innovate that problem away. The moment people "evade" the traffic and offload their transactions to alternate chains, the same problems will arise.

However, since ppcoin has a lower monetization, the network rules can be changed more easily, thus it has innovative flexibility, e.g. it may be able to change the consensus mechanism entirely to improve upon that point. I don't see that happening with bitcoin.

[cabin]

I see this as a huge chance for ppcoin as with pos fees are not needed to prevent >50% attacks in the future. As I understand it fees are only needed so that know one can dos the network for cheap.

ppcoin is subject to the same deficiencies with respect to transaction spam and blockchain bloat. It didn't innovate that problem away. The moment people "evade" the traffic and offload their transactions to alternate chains, the same problems will arise.

However, since ppcoin has a lower monetization, the network rules can be changed more easily, thus it has innovative flexibility, e.g. it may be able to change the consensus mechanism entirely to improve upon that point. I don't see that happening with bitcoin.

H@ml3t is correct, Bitcoin needs the fees to prevent spam AND more importantly to secure the network long term. PPCoin only needs them to prevent spam, and thus they can stay low forever.

[Jutarul]

H@ml3t is correct, Bitcoin needs the fees to prevent spam AND more importantly to secure the network long term. PPCoin only needs them to prevent spam, and thus they can stay low forever.

So tell me, how do you establish QoS without transaction fees?

[Sunny King]

Actually, there is a thing where a big cryptocurrency is inherently bad at, and this is the blocksize limit. In the last days the soft blocksize limit in btc has been reached and people are slowly starting to freakout, see this two threads of many:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149668.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150493.0

This is already delaying transactions in the bitcoin network and the problem will continue to grow. Bitcoin is in a trap by design, from now on transaction fees will continue to grow in order to do a fast transaction. Bitcoin can't just fix this issue as in the future they need the fees to satisfy miners. On the other hand high transaction fees are contrary to the intention of bitcoin.

I see this as a huge chance for ppcoin as with pos fees are not needed to prevent >50% attacks in the future. As I understand it fees are only needed so that know one can dos the network for cheap.

I dont have much time now, I will outline some thoughts I have on how PPCoin could propose a good solution to this dilemma later or tomorrow. First of all I have a question, what is the current soft and hardcoded blocksize limit in PPCoin?

Best regards,
hamlet

Hi hamlet I am glad you brought this up.

First some bad news already pointed out by Jutarul above that as a bitcoin fork we have the same problem if ppcoin network gets popular enough. It's true ppcoin's transaction fee is not used to secure against double spending as in bitcoin's case, however that's only a problem for bitcoin long term (as in 20 years later). As you can see currently the most urgent problem for bitcoin is the block size limit, which would already bid up the transaction fees.

The nature of this problem is inherent with bitcoin's design. I have pointed out earlier in a different thread that block size limit is closely linked to the size of the block chain. They are like two sides of a coin. The modern PC and ISP speed can actually handle much more tps (transactions per second) than the current block size limit allows (you might need ssd and for miners also symmetric internet connection but they are both gradually getting there), but once the limit is raised, the block chain size could also deal enough pain to discourage new nodes to join the network. For me I would favor a plan to first be able to 'roll' the block chain before raising block size limit.

In the interim bitcoin's transaction fees would be bid up, of course there would be plenty of complaints because it lowers bitcoin's competitiveness against other payment networks, including altcoins. We will be able to observe the quality of service behavior originally designed for this scenario, like nodes dropping low fee transactions from memory pool and one has to resend transactions and so on. Bitcoin nodes by default try to send transaction with no fee. Those transactions would already see some pain. I have noticed this before ppcoin's release so ppcoin always requires transaction fee, so users won't be misled into believing that you can use it without paying fees.

As Jutarul pointed out, I am more flexible regarding the issue of hard fork, so we can certainly try more things than bitcoin. Meanwhile I will closely watch the decisions made on bitcoin's side.

[cabin]

H@ml3t is correct, Bitcoin needs the fees to prevent spam AND more importantly to secure the network long term. PPCoin only needs them to prevent spam, and thus they can stay low forever.

So tell me, how do you establish QoS without transaction fees?

Well as far as I know there is no QoS or even any incentive at all to include transactions in PPC.. so that needs to be looked at for sure. But not having to rely on the fees for security is one less constraint on the protocol and that's a step atleast.

[Sunny King]

Well as far as I know there is no QoS or even any incentive at all to include transactions in PPC.. so that needs to be looked at for sure. But not having to rely on the fees for security is one less constraint on the protocol and that's a step atleast.

The incentive to include transactions appears to be of less concerns now as there is an adversarial mechanism that miners are free to drop small blocks while building on their own. ppcoin can have this mechanism because the risk of loss is very low, you don't lose much if your block fails to get into main chain.

QoS is provided currently through the same default miner policy from bitcoin of reserved block space for high-fee transactions.