Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[Astargath]

So, it is you stupid FE Christians that are helping atheism to grow more than ever. After all, the Bible is meant for salvation... not to prove the shape of the earth.

I honestly can’t tell if these flat earth folks are religious idiots who genuinely believe their flat earth blather or atheist idiots seeking to attack Christianity via some form of misguided association fallacy.

So far I can only conclude that they are idiots.

It's funny that a religious person would call another religion person an idiot when you believe in nonsensical shit too, you know, a powerful being and magic. Flat earth can be proven wrong just as easily as the bible, we know the age of the universe, earth, we know evolution exists, basically any scientific discovery disproves the bible.

[CoinCube]

So, it is you stupid FE Christians that are helping atheism to grow more than ever. After all, the Bible is meant for salvation... not to prove the shape of the earth.

I honestly can’t tell if these flat earth folks are religious idiots who genuinely believe their flat earth blather or atheist idiots seeking to attack Christianity via some form of misguided association fallacy.

So far I can only conclude that they are idiots.

It's funny that a religious person would call another religion person an idiot when you believe in nonsensical shit too, you know, a powerful being and magic. Flat earth can be proven wrong just as easily as the bible, we know the age of the universe, earth, we know evolution exists, basically any scientific discovery disproves the bible.

The problem with most people is that they are very sloppy thinkers.
A genuine search for truth does not involve arguing against strawmen. On the contrary one must examine the strongest possible version of your opponents argument.

In the case of flat earth if we assume it’s true we basically have to also assume the entire world is engaged in a giant conspiracy to hide the truth, but it’s worse then that because the experiments to prove the earth is round can be carried by a single individual seeking the truth. It would not be cheap or particularly easy but one can actually prove the world is round by ones own experimentation. The genuine believer in flat earth would then have to believe that the universe itself is conspiring against him and altering the results of his scientific studies in real time to hide the worlds flatness.

Is that impossible? Well no it’s not. Potentially we could all be living in a computer simulation that for some reason found it funny to lie to us in that way. Such a  scenario, however, strikes me as highly implausible and  incompatible with a genuine Christian faith which holds that we live in real universe created by a loving God. Thus I view those who promote both ideologies as either simpletons who lack the capacity for scientific thinking or more likely atheist seeking to challenge religious views by associating them with clearly false beliefs. In the first scenario we are dealing with a confused idiot. In the second a dishonest one.

I don’t believe in magic. I accept the current scientific estimates regarding the age of the universe. I also agree that we have hard data supporting the existence of micro evolution. I believe in God and identify myself as one of his children striving very imperfectly to live for God.

None of my beliefs are contradictory or incompatible with Christianity or the Bible.

[af_newbie]

So, it is you stupid FE Christians that are helping atheism to grow more than ever. After all, the Bible is meant for salvation... not to prove the shape of the earth.

I honestly can’t tell if these flat earth folks are religious idiots who genuinely believe their flat earth blather or atheist idiots seeking to attack Christianity via some form of misguided association fallacy.

So far I can only conclude that they are idiots.

It's funny that a religious person would call another religion person an idiot when you believe in nonsensical shit too, you know, a powerful being and magic. Flat earth can be proven wrong just as easily as the bible, we know the age of the universe, earth, we know evolution exists, basically any scientific discovery disproves the bible.

The problem with most people is that they are very sloppy thinkers.
A genuine search for truth does not involve arguing against strawmen. On the contrary one must examine the strongest possible version of your opponents argument.

In the case of flat earth if we assume it’s true we basically have to also assume the entire world is engaged in a giant conspiracy to hide the truth, but it’s worse then that because the experiments to prove the earth is round can be carried by a single individual seeking the truth. It would not be cheap or particularly easy but one can actually prove the world is round by ones own experimentation. The genuine believer in flat earth would then have to believe that the universe itself is conspiring against him and altering the results of his scientific studies in real time to hide the worlds flatness.

Is that impossible? Well no it’s not. Potentially we could all be living in a computer simulation that for some reason found it funny to lie to us in that way. Such a  scenario, however, strikes me as highly implausible and  incompatible with a genuine Christian faith which holds that we live in real universe created by a loving God. Thus I view those who promote both ideologies as either simpletons who lack the capacity for scientific thinking or more likely atheist seeking to challenge religious views by associating them with clearly false beliefs. In the first scenario we are dealing with a confused idiot. In the second a dishonest one.

I don’t believe in magic. I accept the current scientific estimates regarding the age of the universe. I also agree that we have hard data supporting the existence of micro evolution. I believe in God and identify myself as one of his children striving very imperfectly to live for God.

None of my beliefs are contradictory or incompatible with Christianity or the Bible.

Now you know how I feel.  I think you might be the dishonest one.

You do know that people who wrote the Bible did not know that we live on the globe, do you?  Or you are just pretending that they knew?

Who is the dishonest one?  It took millennia before the helio-centric model was accepted.  Your Christian ideology was against it along the way.

[CoinCube]

Now you know how I feel.  I think you might be the dishonest one.

You do know that people who wrote the Bible did not know that we live on the globe, do you?  Or you are just pretending that they knew?

Who is the dishonest one?  It took millennia before the helio-centric model was accepted.  Your Christian ideology was against it along the way.

Yes I am aware of the history of the heliocentric model and the persecution of Galileo. It was understandable for the ancients pagan and Christian to believe the world was flat. It is a very different situation today with the tools we have at our disposal. The persecution of Galileo was not so understandable but all centralized human power corrupts and religions organizations are not immune.

Regarding honesty I think I have done more the anyone else here except maybe BADecker to comprehensively and exhaustively lay out my views and the logical foundations of my position. You can disagree with me or believe me utterly mistaken but my position is honest and derives from a genuine desire to seek truth.

[Astargath]

Now you know how I feel.  I think you might be the dishonest one.

You do know that people who wrote the Bible did not know that we live on the globe, do you?  Or you are just pretending that they knew?

Who is the dishonest one?  It took millennia before the helio-centric model was accepted.  Your Christian ideology was against it along the way.

Yes I am aware of the history of the heliocentric model and the persecution of Galileo. It was understandable for the ancients pagan and Christian to believe the world was flat. It is a very different situation today with the tools we have at our disposal. The persecution of Galileo was not so understandable but all centralized human power corrupts and religions organizations are not immune.

Regarding honesty I think I have done more the anyone else here except maybe BADecker to comprehensively and exhaustively lay out my views and the logical foundations of my position. You can disagree with me or believe me utterly mistaken but my position is honest and derives from a genuine desire to seek truth.

Is it really a desire to seek the truth or a desire to seek hope. We are all humans, most of us think about the same things deep down, death, life, meaning, I admit I have faith and beliefs that are irrational sometimes when I think about death or if life has any meaning because otherwise my life would be, well, meaningless. I'm sure you also do that and you are not really looking for the truth if the truth is actually something along the lines of: the universe doesn't care, no one cares, everything is meaningless universally and we are all going to die and that's it. No one wants that, let's be honest, I don't however I also cannot force myself to believe in a God, the small hope I have is that perhaps life is not meaningless, maybe there is something, maybe we cannot even comprehend it right now, who knows.

[CoinCube]

Is it really a desire to seek the truth or a desire to seek hope. We are all humans, most of us think about the same things deep down, death, life, meaning, I admit I have faith and beliefs that are irrational sometimes when I think about death or if life has any meaning because otherwise my life would be, well, meaningless. I'm sure you also do that and you are not really looking for the truth if the truth is actually something along the lines of: the universe doesn't care, no one cares, everything is meaningless universally and we are all going to die and that's it. No one wants that, let's be honest, I don't however I also cannot force myself to believe in a God, the small hope I have is that perhaps life is not meaningless, maybe there is something, maybe we cannot even comprehend it right now, who knows.

Probably a mix of both to be honest. I agree we are all human and most of us think about the same things deep down, death, life, meaning.

Personally I have always been very interested in the last of these meaning. When I was a teenager I rejected Christianity. I was surrounded at the time by Christians who were not very logical and unable to defend their beliefs on logical grounds. I was a smart guy and I decided I would find a true worldview grounded in science not emotion and unrealistic hope and myths.

I knew immediately, however, that in rejecting Christianity I had ripped up the foundation under my feet and it had to be replaced. I scoured the classics Plato, Aristotle, Rousseau, Hume all in a search for meaning looking to build a new and more rational world view for myself. Eventually I found Bentham and celebrated my discovery of a truly rational philosophy one based on calculations and determination of the greatest good for the greatest number. Satisfied that I had solved the question to my satisfaction I went on my merry way certain I had found the answer.

For the next 15 years I kept Christians at arms length. I knew from experience that their beliefs by and large made them happy and my own views demanded I not purposely disrupt that happiness so I simply avoided the topic preferring to let them live in what I perceived at the time to be a happy but mistaken delusion.

I had rejected religion on the bases of tradition and rejected God via logical inference. The only path forward for me was to embrace and live out some philosophy of life not grounded in God and observe how it played out. In my case that was utilitarianism and the process of living it out took 15 years.

Eventually I realized that utilitarianism failed me as a practical philosophy. Even more ironically I eventually came to the conclusion that I should reject utilitarianism on utilitarian grounds which is about as profound of an invalidation as one can get. That required me to again rebuild my philosophical foundation. This time I was older and wiser and really dug into the question to the best of my ability. The result is what I shared with you earlier in An Argument for God.

I don’t claim that to be some all important insight or even particularly useful for anyone except me but it was my answer to the question. The honest output of my wholehearted and genuine attempt to address the question comprehensively and logically. I came to the conclusion that I was mistaken all those years ago and the happy simpletons who I had held in such contempt were right all along. My arrogant younger self would have been shocked.

I agree with you that we live in a universe that allows us to choose our truth. One can choose to believe that the universe doesn't care, that no one cares, that everything is meaningless universally and we are all going to die and that's it. I like you find that prospect unappealing.

If the universe was like that then our duty would be clear. We would need to fix it. How does one fix an uncaring universe? Simple we start by fixing ourselves. We find meaning and caring within ourselves and then spread that healing and meaning to our neighbors our offspring and eventually throughout the universe. With time effort and sacrifice all things are possible.

P.S. I watched Heaven Sent an episode of Dr. Who on television yesterday. It’s available for free on amazon prime. It was one of the most inspirational things I have ever seen on television. Totally religion free but it really drives home the message that no goal is impossible. I highly recommend it if you have not seen it. It can stand on its own you don’t have to have watched the other episodes in the series.

[dippididodaday]

Seriously what has to happen in a person's life for them to seriously give up hope on the one true everlasting brand (of religion) which their ancestors have followed for generations.

The answer is quite simple - frankly acknowledge (and outrightly reject) the fundamental building blocks of religious institutions: coercion, indoctrination, manipulation, domination, deceit, contempt and lastly but also very importantly, discrimination.

[BADecker]

So, it is you stupid FE Christians that are helping atheism to grow more than ever. After all, the Bible is meant for salvation... not to prove the shape of the earth.

I honestly can’t tell if these flat earth folks are religious idiots who genuinely believe their flat earth blather or atheist idiots seeking to attack Christianity via some form of misguided association fallacy.

So far I can only conclude that they are idiots.

It's funny that a religious person would call another religion person an idiot when you believe in nonsensical shit too, you know, a powerful being and magic. Flat earth can be proven wrong just as easily as the bible, we know the age of the universe, earth, we know evolution exists, basically any scientific discovery disproves the bible.

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

[Aryleeto]

Atheists in 95% of cases ever getting into religion and tell them how to live well without God , I don't quite understand what do they care what I believe ? I am a believer but why should I know your opinion and impose it on me

[sirazimuth]

.....

It's jokers like you with their stupidity, who help atheists be atheists.

Well let's be fair... you yourself with your stupidity have been doing a pretty good job of that too...

[Astargath]

So, it is you stupid FE Christians that are helping atheism to grow more than ever. After all, the Bible is meant for salvation... not to prove the shape of the earth.

I honestly can’t tell if these flat earth folks are religious idiots who genuinely believe their flat earth blather or atheist idiots seeking to attack Christianity via some form of misguided association fallacy.

So far I can only conclude that they are idiots.

It's funny that a religious person would call another religion person an idiot when you believe in nonsensical shit too, you know, a powerful being and magic. Flat earth can be proven wrong just as easily as the bible, we know the age of the universe, earth, we know evolution exists, basically any scientific discovery disproves the bible.

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

What's funny is that you still don't understand a scientific theory is the best thing we have to come close to the truth of something. You also believe in gravity so... You think ''eye witnesses'' that cannot be trusted are better than scientific theories.

[sirazimuth]

Hey wtf are you and Batty doing in here? This ain't Flat Earth claptrap trolling, ffs.
It's the magic invisible bearded sky fairy dude discussion.

https://i.imgur.com/HUKxIJ7.jpg

The only thing you are doing is attempting to proclaim mankind as God. Mankind doesn't even know for a fact what will happen the next second. You can tell by all the car accidents that happen. The potential accidents that don't happen, don't happen because God has set up a logical universe, and holds the logic in place.

Why will you die? Because it is part of the logic you are asking for by not accepting God. You are pushing Him away, but because He is so GREAT, you are the one who is moving... right out of life.

Hey dude...try changing your meds....

[BADecker]

.....

It's jokers like you with their stupidity, who help atheists be atheists.

Well let's be fair... you yourself with your stupidity have been doing a pretty good job of that too...

An atheist is going to be an atheist without my or exemplar's help. But at least I show the atheist ways to get out of his stupidity. Like at the bottom.

Hey wtf are you and Batty doing in here? This ain't Flat Earth claptrap trolling, ffs.
It's the magic invisible bearded sky fairy dude discussion.

https://i.imgur.com/HUKxIJ7.jpg

The only thing you are doing is attempting to proclaim mankind as God. Mankind doesn't even know for a fact what will happen the next second. You can tell by all the car accidents that happen. The potential accidents that don't happen, don't happen because God has set up a logical universe, and holds the logic in place.

Why will you die? Because it is part of the logic you are asking for by not accepting God. You are pushing Him away, but because He is so GREAT, you are the one who is moving... right out of life.

Hey dude...try changing your meds....

Is that all you can say? Come on and change your god from yourself to the real God, before it's too late for you.

[BADecker]

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

What's funny is that you still don't understand a scientific theory is the best thing we have to come close to the truth of something. You also believe in gravity so... You think ''eye witnesses'' that cannot be trusted are better than scientific theories.

And whats funnier is that you think you understand science theory from a load of words which is the standard explanation. Yet it is my simple explanation that describes it much more clearly. Yet you won't even accept the standard explanation. Because if you did, you would accept my explanation since they are the same.

I'm kinda glad you only believe in gravity. Such shows you aren't operating in the real world.

Eye witnesses are used everyday in court systems around the world. Now you are opposing your own government.

[af_newbie]

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

What's funny is that you still don't understand a scientific theory is the best thing we have to come close to the truth of something. You also believe in gravity so... You think ''eye witnesses'' that cannot be trusted are better than scientific theories.

And whats funnier is that you think you understand science theory from a load of words which is the standard explanation. Yet it is my simple explanation that describes it much more clearly. Yet you won't even accept the standard explanation. Because if you did, you would accept my explanation since they are the same.

I'm kinda glad you only believe in gravity. Such shows you aren't operating in the real world.

Eye witnesses are used everyday in court systems around the world. Now you are opposing your own government.

DNA evidence trumps eyewitness testimony.

Science works, bitch!!!

[BADecker]

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

What's funny is that you still don't understand a scientific theory is the best thing we have to come close to the truth of something. You also believe in gravity so... You think ''eye witnesses'' that cannot be trusted are better than scientific theories.

And whats funnier is that you think you understand science theory from a load of words which is the standard explanation. Yet it is my simple explanation that describes it much more clearly. Yet you won't even accept the standard explanation. Because if you did, you would accept my explanation since they are the same.

I'm kinda glad you only believe in gravity. Such shows you aren't operating in the real world.

Eye witnesses are used everyday in court systems around the world. Now you are opposing your own government.

DNA evidence trumps eyewitness testimony.

Science works, bitch!!!

Good examination of DNA evidence might prove eye witness reports wrong. But we still haven't found any way that DNA proves or disproves gravity being real... at least without a lot of convoluted interpretation of DNA properties. Yet we have eye witness accounts of all the people that have ever lived on earth that gravity exists. Or do you have some DNA evidence that shows that gravity doesn't exist?

So, I totally agree that science works. Science theory works to substantiate science one way or another. Science theory itself isn't the point of science that is being substantiated by the theory.

[Astargath]

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

What's funny is that you still don't understand a scientific theory is the best thing we have to come close to the truth of something. You also believe in gravity so... You think ''eye witnesses'' that cannot be trusted are better than scientific theories.

And whats funnier is that you think you understand science theory from a load of words which is the standard explanation. Yet it is my simple explanation that describes it much more clearly. Yet you won't even accept the standard explanation. Because if you did, you would accept my explanation since they are the same.

I'm kinda glad you only believe in gravity. Such shows you aren't operating in the real world.

Eye witnesses are used everyday in court systems around the world. Now you are opposing your own government.

DNA evidence trumps eyewitness testimony.

Science works, bitch!!!

Good examination of DNA evidence might prove eye witness reports wrong. But we still haven't found any way that DNA proves or disproves gravity being real... at least without a lot of convoluted interpretation of DNA properties. Yet we have eye witness accounts of all the people that have ever lived on earth that gravity exists. Or do you have some DNA evidence that shows that gravity doesn't exist?

So, I totally agree that science works. Science theory works to substantiate science one way or another. Science theory itself isn't the point of science that is being substantiated by the theory.

Yeah but what's better than the scientific method when it comes to determining the truth? If you want to know why things fall to the ground, what's a better system than the scientific method? Certainly not eye witnesses or priests, they probably thought it was some sort of magic or just made up something to explain it, answer the question. 

[BADecker]

Good examination of DNA evidence might prove eye witness reports wrong. But we still haven't found any way that DNA proves or disproves gravity being real... at least without a lot of convoluted interpretation of DNA properties. Yet we have eye witness accounts of all the people that have ever lived on earth that gravity exists. Or do you have some DNA evidence that shows that gravity doesn't exist?

So, I totally agree that science works. Science theory works to substantiate science one way or another. Science theory itself isn't the point of science that is being substantiated by the theory.

Yeah but what's better than the scientific method when it comes to determining the truth? If you want to know why things fall to the ground, what's a better system than the scientific method? Certainly not eye witnesses or priests, they probably thought it was some sort of magic or just made up something to explain it, answer the question.  

You are talking about two truths. One truth is the simple truth that gravity exists. The other truth is why or how it exists.

KNOWING that things fall to the ground, doesn't have anything to do with knowing WHY they fall. They fall even if we don't know why.

In the case of gravity, if we want to know WHY gravity works, outside of being told why by someone who knows why, the scientific method might be the best way to find out why.

The WHY of it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it happens. If nobody wants to know WHY, and nobody uses any method to determine WHY, it still happens.

What's the matter? Do you need explanations of such simple things that you talk about, just so that you can understand them? Do you even understand yourself at all?

[Astargath]

What's really funny is all the people who believe science theories to be true, real, and fact. Then someone comes along, and changes the theory... and its believers are found to be just what they are... religious nuts who aren't even smart enough to realize that they have a religion in their science faith.

At least formal religious people know that they have a religion.

What's funny is that you still don't understand a scientific theory is the best thing we have to come close to the truth of something. You also believe in gravity so... You think ''eye witnesses'' that cannot be trusted are better than scientific theories.

And whats funnier is that you think you understand science theory from a load of words which is the standard explanation. Yet it is my simple explanation that describes it much more clearly. Yet you won't even accept the standard explanation. Because if you did, you would accept my explanation since they are the same.

I'm kinda glad you only believe in gravity. Such shows you aren't operating in the real world.

Eye witnesses are used everyday in court systems around the world. Now you are opposing your own government.

DNA evidence trumps eyewitness testimony.

Science works, bitch!!!

Good examination of DNA evidence might prove eye witness reports wrong. But we still haven't found any way that DNA proves or disproves gravity being real... at least without a lot of convoluted interpretation of DNA properties. Yet we have eye witness accounts of all the people that have ever lived on earth that gravity exists. Or do you have some DNA evidence that shows that gravity doesn't exist?

So, I totally agree that science works. Science theory works to substantiate science one way or another. Science theory itself isn't the point of science that is being substantiated by the theory.

Yeah but what's better than the scientific method when it comes to determining the truth? If you want to know why things fall to the ground, what's a better system than the scientific method? Certainly not eye witnesses or priests, they probably thought it was some sort of magic or just made up something to explain it, answer the question. 

KNOWING that things fall to the ground, doesn't have anything to do with knowing WHY they fall. They fall even if we don't know why.

In the case of gravity, if we want to know WHY gravity works, outside of being told why by someone who knows why, the scientific method might be the best way to find out why.

The WHY of it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it happens. If nobody wants to know WHY, and nobody uses any method to determine WHY, it still happens.

Right but you didn't answer the question, what system or method is better then, in your opinion to find out the truth about something specific?

[sirazimuth]

Is that all you can say? Come on and change your god from yourself to the real God, before it's too late for you.

My Jehovah witness buddy told me that same nonsense like 45 years ago...  So when exactly is "too late" ?

You pious folk just wont let it go. It's why I don't bother arguing with you. Waste of time.
More fun just mocking your silly superstitious delusions and having a chuckle.