Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[af_newbie]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

[1715271848]

1715271848

[CoinCube]

Just stop this 'free will' nonsense...

Our world can be deterministic or non-deterministic.  There is no other choice.
...

Actually there is a third option. The universe including all time and space could be an imagined deterministic creation in which the creations are imagined to be free.
...
The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

You just babble without thinking, or you are unable to think.  Which one is it?

Your 'third' option is the "first" option.  Even if we live in the deterministic simulation.

Fuck, you are a walking, talking proof that religions cause permanent brain damage.

I am sorry af_newbie but if you want to understand this topic you are going to have to put in a little more effort.

However emotional satisfying you find it calling people sadistic and brain damaged it just makes you look silly. You are simply not understanding what in my opinion is the most elegant of the solutions to the free will problem.

Izbicer demonstrates is that it is possible for agents to be free, relative to the fiction that they live in, whilst wholly determined from a God’s eye view. If you want to really understand how this works you will have to do some reading and approach the topic with an open mind.

The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

Did you just conceit that the moral code is relative to the culture that adopts it?
...
Moral code evolves as our cultures evolve.
...  
You just validated two things: that the morals are relative to the culture they were developed in, and that God did not write the ...moral code,... If it was the creator of space and time, he would have given transcendent, objective (to any culture) moral code.  

No I said that the proper instantiation of the objective moral code can vary across changing circumstances.

The command love your neighbor as yourself for example can cause you to act in one way in a particular scenario and in an entirely different way in another time and situation. The truth is fixed it’s implementation infinity variable.

Societies adherence to objective morality is always flawed.  The closeness of the approximation varies hopefully with gradual improvement over time.

As BadDecker mentioned human nature does not change much over time on a fundamental level. This is true and it’s the reason why the 10 commandments are as relevant today as there were centuries ago.

Society, however, is vastly more complex and powerful then it was 4,000 years ago.  Some things that were important in times past are not as relevant or practical in our modern world (animal offerings are an example). When those situations arise one can understand the message of the Bible by attempting to understand why the rule was ideal and necessary 4,000 years ago. Deriving that truth if we can sometimes allows us to extrapolate how that principle would map to the modern world. It’s not an easy process which is perhaps why we have been granted a role model to follow. The ideal if you will.

Ask yourself: 'What would Jesus character do?"

[af_newbie]

Just stop this 'free will' nonsense...

Our world can be deterministic or non-deterministic.  There is no other choice.
...

Actually there is a third option. The universe including all time and space could be an imagined deterministic creation in which the creations are imagined to be free.
...
The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

You just babble without thinking, or you are unable to think.  Which one is it?

Your 'third' option is the "first" option.  Even if we live in the deterministic simulation.

Fuck, you are a walking, talking proof that religions cause permanent brain damage.

I am sorry af_newbie but if you want to understand this topic you are going to have to put in a little more effort.

However emotional satisfying you find it calling people sadistic and brain damaged it just makes you look silly. You are simply not understanding what in my opinion is the most elegant of the solutions to the free will problem.

Izbicer demonstrates is that it is possible for agents to be free, relative to the fiction that they live in, whilst wholly determined from a God’s eye view. If you want to really understand how this works you will have to do some reading and approach the topic with an open mind.

The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

Did you just conceit that the moral code is relative to the culture that adopts it?
...
Moral code evolves as our cultures evolve.
...  
You just validated two things: that the morals are relative to the culture they were developed in, and that God did not write the ...moral code,... If it was the creator of space and time, he would have given transcendent, objective (to any culture) moral code.  

No I said that the proper instantiation of the objective moral code can vary across changing circumstances.

The command love your neighbor as yourself for example can cause you to act in one way in a particular scenario and in an entirely different way in another time and situation. The truth is fixed it’s implementation infinity variable.

Societies adherence to objective morality is always flawed.  The closeness of the approximation varies hopefully with gradual improvement over time.

As BadDecker mentioned human nature does not change much over time on a fundamental level. This is true and it’s the reason why the 10 commandments are as relevant today as there were centuries ago.

Society, however, is vastly more complex and powerful then it was 4,000 years ago.  Some things that were important in times past are not as relevant or practical in our modern world (animal offerings are an example). When those situations arise one can understand the message of the Bible by attempting to understand why the rule was ideal and necessary 4,000 years ago. Deriving that truth if we can sometimes allows us to extrapolate how that principle would map to the modern world. It’s not an easy process which is perhaps why we have been granted a role model to follow. The ideal if you will.

Ask yourself: 'What would Jesus character do?"

"the proper instantiation" is subjective, not objective.  

I do not understand people like you and BADecker, I cannot believe that you, living in a modern, Western country, can think that people 4000 years ago knew more about the human condition than contemporary scientists and philosophers.  You do realize that these people were ignorant, did not know what planet they were on, what Sun was and why they have evolved from other life forms.  Their community leaders wrote the Bible to manage growing cities and communities, provide some legal and moral guidance.  That is it.

I just don't get it.  Are you that stupid? Unbelievable!!!

[Johnzky]

^^^ There are both, free will and lack of it.

For example, when you work for a company, your boss often tells you to do something. Some things he dictates. But others he allows you to use your own judgment on. The results work out best when there is a little of each, free will and controlled direction.

God works similarly in the universe, but much more foundationally. He allows us partial free will so that we are free. But because we are not strong enough to actuate anything that we free-will decide, God does the actuating for us. When He does it, He does it according to His goals and the physics of the universe.

Cause & Effect in the universe makes it look like we ultimately don't have free will. But we don't have enough science to factually claim that we have free will or not. So, we need to follow the two examples available:
1. Apparent free will shows that the free-will idea is present;
2. The Bible shows us how we have free will, with God Almighty guiding it.

Conscious control of things is very limited. Even science has shown that the subconscious is far greater than the conscious.

Just let us know when you successfully turn yourself into a homosexual and I will accept your theory that people ''choose'' to be gay.

What the ****  people choose to be Gay?what about those 3 years old children's that has been showinh to be a Gay in their younger years meaninh they choose to be one?no man thats impossible

But yeah i believed that some gAys had choose to be what they are because most of the time it is from the environment and from the people we live on,but some gays just woke ip feeling to be a women and thats not a choice its reality

[BADecker]

^^^ There are both, free will and lack of it.

For example, when you work for a company, your boss often tells you to do something. Some things he dictates. But others he allows you to use your own judgment on. The results work out best when there is a little of each, free will and controlled direction.

God works similarly in the universe, but much more foundationally. He allows us partial free will so that we are free. But because we are not strong enough to actuate anything that we free-will decide, God does the actuating for us. When He does it, He does it according to His goals and the physics of the universe.

Cause & Effect in the universe makes it look like we ultimately don't have free will. But we don't have enough science to factually claim that we have free will or not. So, we need to follow the two examples available:
1. Apparent free will shows that the free-will idea is present;
2. The Bible shows us how we have free will, with God Almighty guiding it.

Conscious control of things is very limited. Even science has shown that the subconscious is far greater than the conscious.

Just let us know when you successfully turn yourself into a homosexual and I will accept your theory that people ''choose'' to be gay.

I get sick once in a while. But I don't choose to be sick. When I get sick, I work on ways to get well rather than indulging the sickness more and more.

[Astargath]

^^^ There are both, free will and lack of it.

For example, when you work for a company, your boss often tells you to do something. Some things he dictates. But others he allows you to use your own judgment on. The results work out best when there is a little of each, free will and controlled direction.

God works similarly in the universe, but much more foundationally. He allows us partial free will so that we are free. But because we are not strong enough to actuate anything that we free-will decide, God does the actuating for us. When He does it, He does it according to His goals and the physics of the universe.

Cause & Effect in the universe makes it look like we ultimately don't have free will. But we don't have enough science to factually claim that we have free will or not. So, we need to follow the two examples available:
1. Apparent free will shows that the free-will idea is present;
2. The Bible shows us how we have free will, with God Almighty guiding it.

Conscious control of things is very limited. Even science has shown that the subconscious is far greater than the conscious.

Just let us know when you successfully turn yourself into a homosexual and I will accept your theory that people ''choose'' to be gay.

I get sick once in a while. But I don't choose to be sick. When I get sick, I work on ways to get well rather than indulging the sickness more and more.

Mind telling us what ways are there to convert yourself from homosexuality to heterosexuality? Because I don't think any doctor in the world has been able to do it, some people might have converted back but as far as I know there are no drugs/medicine able to convert you back, unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't.

Also, why is being gay an illness?

[BADecker]

^^^ 1. Recognize that homosexual tendencies are only that, tendencies, that were recognized to be friendship tendencies in other ways than homosexuality.
2. Get help and counseling to confirm how to properly apply those tendencies in life.
3. Absolutely avoid homosexual acts.
4. Get counseling about how to interact with people of both sexes without doing the H acts.
5. No sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
6. Make friends who are strong in ways that avoid H, while avoiding people who tend toward the H acts.
7. Seek a straight church, and get counseling for those trained to deal with H.
8. Avoid anti-H medicines as much as possible; get into good nutrition.

Doing these things will gradually train a person away from H no matter what his chemical tendencies are.

Life is full of troubles. Don't make them worse by indulging them.

Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.

[haseeb ahmed]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

[JSRAW]

^^^ 1. Recognize that homosexual tendencies are only that, tendencies, that were recognized to be friendship tendencies in other ways than homosexuality.
2. Get help and counseling to confirm how to properly apply those tendencies in life.
3. Absolutely avoid homosexual acts.
4. Get counseling about how to interact with people of both sexes without doing the H acts.
5. No sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
6. Make friends who are strong in ways that avoid H, while avoiding people who tend toward the H acts.
7. Seek a straight church, and get counseling for those trained to deal with H.
8. Avoid anti-H medicines as much as possible; get into good nutrition.

Doing these things will gradually train a person away from H no matter what his chemical tendencies are.

Life is full of troubles. Don't make them worse by indulging them.

Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.

There is no difference in between you and Islamist fanatics, who thinks like that. you may want to collaborate with this so called Islamic scholar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty-_iMy5E0g

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1122686639417856003

[BADecker]

^^^ LOL! Another gay-sick homo! And not only that, but one who doesn't know a whole lot about Islam.

Are you an atheist, too? Say you are so that you will be explained a little.

[af_newbie]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

[af_newbie]

^^^ 1. Recognize that homosexual tendencies are only that, tendencies, that were recognized to be friendship tendencies in other ways than homosexuality.
2. Get help and counseling to confirm how to properly apply those tendencies in life.
3. Absolutely avoid homosexual acts.
4. Get counseling about how to interact with people of both sexes without doing the H acts.
5. No sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
6. Make friends who are strong in ways that avoid H, while avoiding people who tend toward the H acts.
7. Seek a straight church, and get counseling for those trained to deal with H.
8. Avoid anti-H medicines as much as possible; get into good nutrition.

Doing these things will gradually train a person away from H no matter what his chemical tendencies are.

Life is full of troubles. Don't make them worse by indulging them.

Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.

Ignoring the fact that you are completely mental when it comes to the issue of homosexuality...

Do you buy cars without driving them?  No sex before marriage can lead to lifelong sexual frustration, adultery and eventually a divorce.

Are you sure you (or your God, lol) thought this through?

Why are you so afraid of gays?  Are you gay yourself and are afraid that people would find out and think less of you as a man?

It cannot be just Bible verses, there is more to this story, I'm afraid.

[Astargath]

^^^ 1. Recognize that homosexual tendencies are only that, tendencies, that were recognized to be friendship tendencies in other ways than homosexuality.
2. Get help and counseling to confirm how to properly apply those tendencies in life.
3. Absolutely avoid homosexual acts.
4. Get counseling about how to interact with people of both sexes without doing the H acts.
5. No sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
6. Make friends who are strong in ways that avoid H, while avoiding people who tend toward the H acts.
7. Seek a straight church, and get counseling for those trained to deal with H.
8. Avoid anti-H medicines as much as possible; get into good nutrition.

Doing these things will gradually train a person away from H no matter what his chemical tendencies are.

Life is full of troubles. Don't make them worse by indulging them.

Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.

''Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.'' Am I sick if I don't like having sex or kids? Am I sick if my dick doesn't work because I can't procreate? Weird statement there mate, doesn't work very well.

Is there any scientific evidence to back up your claims that following those steps will turn you into a heterosexual human?

[haseeb ahmed]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

[tiknack]

Never thought about this.

[BADecker]

^^^ 1. Recognize that homosexual tendencies are only that, tendencies, that were recognized to be friendship tendencies in other ways than homosexuality.
2. Get help and counseling to confirm how to properly apply those tendencies in life.
3. Absolutely avoid homosexual acts.
4. Get counseling about how to interact with people of both sexes without doing the H acts.
5. No sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
6. Make friends who are strong in ways that avoid H, while avoiding people who tend toward the H acts.
7. Seek a straight church, and get counseling for those trained to deal with H.
8. Avoid anti-H medicines as much as possible; get into good nutrition.

Doing these things will gradually train a person away from H no matter what his chemical tendencies are.

Life is full of troubles. Don't make them worse by indulging them.

Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.

''Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.'' Am I sick if I don't like having sex or kids? Am I sick if my dick doesn't work because I can't procreate? Weird statement there mate, doesn't work very well.

Is there any scientific evidence to back up your claims that following those steps will turn you into a heterosexual human?

Nature has a purpose for everything. How much more when the purpose is a command from God. And especially when we see that it is a great command.

As far as the cures, you won't look for them because you like being mentally ill in general.

[af_newbie]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong? 

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

[CoinCube]

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

You ultimately can judge any religion including your moral relativism by its fruits.

Show me the current Christian or Jewish community anywhere in the world where homosexuals are routinely killed and murdered.

After you are done futilely trying to find one I will show you the multiple areas of the planet where your moral relativism is currently in vogue. In those communities the unborn are routinely murdererd in their millions and the elderly are increasingly being put down by their doctors. Death by doctor now account for up to 25% of adult mortality in some countries.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

Only someone embracing a truly deranged religion would utterly focus on the ridiculous theoretical risk of Christians rising up in mass to kill all the gays while nonchalantly ignoring the machinery of mass death all around them.

Edit:
In fairness to af_newbie I just realized that he was responding not to BADecker but to someone of the following religion.

Islam is the most peaceful religion of world.

If he wants to make the case that moral relativism is superior to Mohammedism I will stay out of that fight as I hold an unfavorable opinion about both.

[Astargath]

^^^ 1. Recognize that homosexual tendencies are only that, tendencies, that were recognized to be friendship tendencies in other ways than homosexuality.
2. Get help and counseling to confirm how to properly apply those tendencies in life.
3. Absolutely avoid homosexual acts.
4. Get counseling about how to interact with people of both sexes without doing the H acts.
5. No sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
6. Make friends who are strong in ways that avoid H, while avoiding people who tend toward the H acts.
7. Seek a straight church, and get counseling for those trained to deal with H.
8. Avoid anti-H medicines as much as possible; get into good nutrition.

Doing these things will gradually train a person away from H no matter what his chemical tendencies are.

Life is full of troubles. Don't make them worse by indulging them.

Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.

''Acting out the gay part is an illness because it completely thwarts the purpose for the instincts, procreation.'' Am I sick if I don't like having sex or kids? Am I sick if my dick doesn't work because I can't procreate? Weird statement there mate, doesn't work very well.

Is there any scientific evidence to back up your claims that following those steps will turn you into a heterosexual human?

Nature has a purpose for everything. How much more when the purpose is a command from God. And especially when we see that it is a great command.

As far as the cures, you won't look for them because you like being mentally ill in general.

Still waiting for that scientific evidence that you can ''cure'' gays, you might have just discovered the biggest discovery in this era. I ask you again, what if I can't reproduce or I simply do not want kids, am I mentally ill too?

[af_newbie]

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

You ultimately can judge any religion including your moral relativism by its fruits.

Show me the current Christian or Jewish community anywhere in the world where homosexuals are routinely killed and murdered.

After you are done futilely trying to find one I will show you the multiple areas of the planet where your moral relativism is currently in vogue. In those communities the unborn are routinely murdererd in their millions and the elderly are increasingly being put down by their doctors. Death by doctor now account for up to 25% of adult mortality in some countries.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

Only someone embracing a truly deranged religion would utterly focus on the ridiculous theoretical risk of Christians rising up in mass to kill all the gays while nonchalantly ignoring the machinery of mass death all around them.

Edit:
In fairness to af_newbie I just realized that he was responding not to BADecker but to someone of the following religion.

Islam is the most peaceful religion of world.

If he wants to make the case that moral relativism is superior to Mohammedism I will stay out of that fight as I hold an unfavorable opinion about both.

I was arguing that scriptures are fucked up.  Read before you answer.

...
Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

Christian or Jewish apologetics are the same as Muslim apologetics.  You guys ignore the scriptures and divert the attention to something else.

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


Both scriptures, the Quran and the Bible are clear on the subject. I am not sure what your objection is.

Are you confused?  Frankly, the quality of your responses has been falling considerably.  Are you ok?

You did not even try to counter my argument that destroyed the concept of free will.  Now you babble something that not all Christians follow the Bible because they do not kill gays today.  How is this remotely relevant to the discussion of the content of the scriptures?

Atheists have the easiest job in the world.  They can just open the Bible or the Quran and read.

You, on the other hand, have to resort some mental gymnastics by inventing "proper instantiation", "proper translation", "proper metaphor",
"that is not what the writers meant",  "the scriptures have to be read in the original language they were written", etc.

But the fact is that the scriptures recommend some seriously fucked shit as punishment, every 10-year old who reads it understands it, except you guys.

Admit that the scriptures are seriously fucked up so that we can move on to more important topics.