Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[Astargath]

Materialism is an assumption. It is a chosen framework to understand the universe.

I hold it to be a very flawed very problematic framework with multiple consequences....
....

...
Our reality is material, whether you like it or not.  If it was not, I would not be a materialist.
...

Ok af_newbie you have clearly made your choice.

I have done my best to clarify our differences reduce them to their most basic divergence in thought. I appear to have failed in shifting your position in the slightest. It is time now for me to disengage as I have nothing further to add. I wish you well.

The Big Decision about Life...
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-big-decision-about-life.html?m=1

...Is a metaphysical one - not a matter of 'evidence'. And that insight (metaphysics not evidence) is the first step.

The situation is that Life is a mixed-picture: the decision is whether Life is validated by its best moments or times; or destroyed by its worst.

As I said, evidence does not help - the question is not quantitative. This is a matter of primary assumption.

And the question is not answerable in isolation - Life can only be validated if Life has 'meaning'; and the nature of validation depends on the nature of that meaning.

On the other hand, if you have already accepted that life has no meaning - is merely determined, or random - then you have already made your Big Decision. (Whether implicitly or explicitly) your basic assumptions ensure that for you Life is defined by its worst aspects - indeed the single, most extreme worst-of-Life is the truth-of-Life (both for individuals, and en masse).

Nothing can be done for you - because any possible Good will be negated by One Bad Thing - even when that Bad is merely the evanescence of Good.

On the other hand; if you understand, and live-by, the conviction that the best of Life is the truth of life (despite that this cannot be continuous) - then you have indomitable strength, assurance, and hope.

You clearly do not understand my position.  I do not have a choice.

My brain does not allow me to accept things that cannot be validated by science.  My epistemology is based on that.

The things that science cannot explain, I am ok with simply not knowing.

You think I have made this choice but I am telling you I do not make choices to know what is true and what is not.

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

You have a choice, actually infinite number of them, you are limited only by your imagination, I, on the other hand, am confined to what science can discover and validate.

In a way, I envy you, you are an ignorant simpleton who is only limited by his imagination. 

I wish I was dumber, life would have been a lot simpler.  Instead, I see a very complex world and I am sad that other people are dumb as rocks.  Where is the natural selection when you need her?

I think that's something religious people cannot understand, the fact that you cannot choose to believe in god or anything for that matter, when you believe in something is because you are convinced of it for some reason but if you don't, you simply cannot force yourself to believe in it just like you can't force yourself to be gay if you are not.

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[CoinCube]

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

I think that's something religious people cannot understand, the fact that you cannot choose to believe in god or anything for that matter, when you believe in something is because you are convinced of it for some reason but if you don't, you simply cannot force yourself to believe in it just like you can't force yourself to be gay if you are not.

I think many religious people understand. Human reasons can indeed only take you so far. Beyond that it is a matter of faith. Not everyone is capable of faith. I will close with this essay from John C. Wright. He is one of my favorite authors and wrote on this topic.

The More Rational Model
http://www.scifiwright.com/2017/05/the-more-rational-model/#more-18419

A comment on my publisher’s website asks:

“Do you have any suggestions for finding faith? I see the necessity of religion, and Christianity in particular, but aside from history and cultural affinity I don’t have actual belief.”

My suggestion: Pray.

Also, consider that the Christian worldview is more coherent, robust, and rational than any secular worldview.
Our model explains things such as why stars look fair and beautiful to our eyes when it serves no credible Darwinian purpose to do so.

Our model explains the naturalistic fallacy, that is, the gap between ‘is’ and ‘ought’ which secular philosophy cannot explain, and some cannot even address.

Our model explains how free will can exist inside a deterministic universe. A materialist cannot even formulate the question in a rational way.

Our model explains why humans seek beauty. Social-evolutionary explanations for this are less convincing than astrology.

Our model explains how creatures with free will capable of grasping intellectual abstractions can arise in a universe which contains no such thing as intellectual abstractions.

Our model allows investigation of final causes in nature, without which nature cannot properly be understood.

Our model explains the prevalence of so many theists throughout history. The theory that over nine tenths of mankind, including some of the most brilliant thinkers in their age, were raving lunatics who hallucinate about imaginary sky beings is not credible and not supported by evidence.

Our model explains the various miracles and supernatural wonders that are in the older history books, and which, for no scientific reason, were excised from being reported.

Our model explains both why there is a plurality of religions and why there are striking similarities between them.

Our model explains the origin of the universe. By definition, if the universe were all that existed, exists and ever will exist, than a material cause for it is impossible.

Our model explains the current hegemony of the West and makes clear the meaning and purpose of what otherwise seems like insane and suicidal attempts by the apparently sober and sane men on Left to undermine and destroy it.

Our model explains why you should not let your daughter whore around. She is immortal, and will outlast any nation, and language, any institution and human work on Earth.

Our model explains why you should not, once you have truly and deeply contemplated the vastness of the universe and the oppressive span of time to follow the death of everything you know, fall into despair, and end your meaningless life.

Our model gives something to live for nobler than one’s own pleasure seeking.

Our model avoids the logical paradox of asserting man can create meaning in life out of a vacuum. That would require an ability to create meaning out of meaninglessness, which is absurd.

Our model explains why men and women are different, and how we must arrange the dangerous mystery of the mating dance between the sexes to improve our chances to achieve joy rather than misery.

Our model gives rational hope of seeking the departed dead again.

Our model explains human psychology better than perverted old Freud dressing up old Greek myths in make believe, and far better than cranky old Thomas Hobbes and his cynicism.

Our model makes sense. Others are either incorrect, incomplete, or paradoxical, or lead ultimately to wrath or despair. Our model is the sole one which sees life as not futile and death as not bitter.

And, on an intellectual level, our model is the one to which to turn once your mind has become wearied with the reductionist, absurdist and postmodern models, which are in fact no models at all, but rather, are excuses why one should not make a model of the universe, nor seek any answers to deep questions.

It is the model to which to turn once you are heartily sick of hearing “It Just Happened” as the explanation for the origin of man, the universe, and all things.

Naturally, I do not expect any reader to take any of these conclusions as if they were persuasive arguments. Each would require a separate and in depth conversation. This is just a list, and a partial list at that, of the intellectually satisfying fullness of Christian thought. It is the scent and savor of the feast of Christian philosophy, not the meat and potatoes.

This list is not meant to argue the point. It is meant to whet the appetite of intellects starved and desiccated after vain attempt to feast on the shadows, dust and ashes of modern thought, and show the contrast.

There are additional reasons beyond this. All human reason can do is clear away false objections to faith. Faith itself is a supernatural gift bestowed by God to protect his own from the sudden, irrational loss of confidence in the self evident to which our foolish race is prone.

[af_newbie]

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

I think that's something religious people cannot understand, the fact that you cannot choose to believe in god or anything for that matter, when you believe in something is because you are convinced of it for some reason but if you don't, you simply cannot force yourself to believe in it just like you can't force yourself to be gay if you are not.

...Human reasons can indeed only take you so far. Beyond that it is a matter of faith. Not everyone is capable of faith. ...

Where faith begins, human reason stops.

Some people are always in control of their reason, others let go of it and become religious.

[Astargath]

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

I think that's something religious people cannot understand, the fact that you cannot choose to believe in god or anything for that matter, when you believe in something is because you are convinced of it for some reason but if you don't, you simply cannot force yourself to believe in it just like you can't force yourself to be gay if you are not.

...Human reasons can indeed only take you so far. Beyond that it is a matter of faith. Not everyone is capable of faith. ...

Where faith begins, human reason stops.

Some people are always in control of their reason, others let go of it and become religious.

Faith can be easily proven to be garbage. Take 100 different religious or believers in anything mystical/supernatural. They will all claim they have faith in their specific gods, etc and yet not all of them can be right, most of them claim their god is the one and only and yet some of them have to be wrong even if one god is real but they all have faith, clearly faith is not a good path to the truth.

[BADecker]

You clearly do not understand my position.  I do not have a choice.

My brain does not allow me to accept things that cannot be validated by science.  My epistemology is based on that.

^^ How does anyone know if all of the things that science has not validated can be scientifically validated? Do you have scientific validation that you do not have a choice without scientific validation?

The things that science cannot explain, I am ok with simply not knowing.

^^ If you don't have scientific validation for the idea that you only have choice with scientific validation, you don't really know if you only have scientifically validated choice. But you said that you only have scientifically validated choice, above.

You think I have made this choice but I am telling you I do not make choices to know what is true and what is not.

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

^^ Has it been scientifically validated that things are true or false without you choosing them? Quantum Entanglement suggests otherwise.

You have a choice, actually infinite number of them, you are limited only by your imagination, I, on the other hand, am confined to what science can discover and validate.

^^ Has science validated that you exist? If it hasn't, you may not be able to choose anything, scientifically validated or not... especially that someone else has some choices.

In a way, I envy you, you are an ignorant simpleton who is only limited by his imagination.  

^^ Has that been scientifically validated, or are you contradicting yourself by choosing to suggest such without scientific validation?

I wish I was dumber, life would have been a lot simpler.  Instead, I see a very complex world and I am sad that other people are dumb as rocks.  Where is the natural selection when you need her?

^^ If you continue on your course in life, you will probably become dumber. Perhaps you should have yourself checked out by several psychiatrists and psychologists. Particularly, show them your points in your post that I am quoting here, so that they understand what they are dealing with in you.

Besides, natural selection has not been scientifically validated. The closest it has come are the few jokers who suggest that it might have been scientifically validated.

[haseeb ahmed]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

than why you people can not hear to religious beliefs where is your freedom of speech. Why the hell you people are blaming religions for all the mess

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

And what about the diseases spreading from this homosexuality thing can you justify that as well. What about AIDS, many people die every year due to this disease and you think homosexuality is right and i consider it as a murder of innocent people from this gay community. You are savages living lives without any clear rules and instructions just living it. What about rape, alcohol, child abuse, murder, terrorism and other many bad deeds from which religions stops human beings.

Religion does not stop those things.  If anything, it encourages it and/or supports it.

BTW, you can get HIV on your next visit to the dentist.  HIV is spread through the exchange of bodily fluids, you ignoramus.

You are a barbarian.  Do you think you stand on the higher moral ground with your 6th-century wisdom?

You are ignoring centuries of scientific and technological progress we have made as a human race.

You are locked in a time capsule.  

yes you are right hiv spreads from fluid or serum but you are not pointing out the root cause from where it started. And what you are saying that religions does not stops but encourages it, how can you even say that when you don’t even know about religions. And what you are talking about science and 21 century so religions made laws to live many centuries  ago and science is following it. I feel pity for your thinking.

Do you want the root cause? Here it is:

https://www.theaidsinstitute.org/education/aids-101/where-did-hiv-come-0

I hope you will not teach your ignorance to your children.  Hopefully, you will no children to teach your 6th-century wisdom.

ehteist just want to eliminate religion from world which will never happen

Wrong again.  We want to expose the stupid, barbaric ideas religions profess.  

Religions will eliminate themselves.

Bad ideas will be replaced with better ideas.  That is how progress is made in pretty much anything.

On equal political footing, religions would not stand a chance against secular, scientific thought.

than you should search for the origin of science where started from and scientists who were involved were not secular nor etheist.

The ones that were, were burned at the stake, hung from a tree, crucified or had their heads chopped off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

Here is a quote from Galileo for you to ponder on:

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go."

Newton believed in the "God of the Gaps", just like some scientists today.

Religion fills an emotional need.  It reassures believers that things will be ok, that some father figure is always there to help them.
This is self-delusion, but it does offer some psychological help to some people.  People like yourself.

If your religion stops you from killing people, you should strongly believe in your God and abide by the laws in the corresponding scriptures.

than what about Einstein and Thomas Edison what about many other scientists
You can not blame religions for every thing happening in this world. You think religion is impeding progress and I think it’s the inequality which is spreading hate.

Why do you care what famous scientists thought or said?  Are you looking for validation?  Are you believing in Spinoza's God?

For every scientist who believed (or believes) in God (in some shape, or form), I can find you 10 that don't.

If I were you, I would worry more about becoming an Islamist.  You want to kill gays, so you are half way there.

Your scripture can lead you into a slippery slope, 'kill gays' -> Islamist -> Jihadist -> Terrorist

its not about killing gay its about law which religions defined for human beings and for us we have to follow them. you dont follow religion if you dont want to but criticizing others is not justifiable.

[BADecker]

its not about killing gay its about law which religions defined for human beings and for us we have to follow them. you dont follow religion if you dont want to but criticizing others is not justifiable.

Oh, quit criticizing poor af_newbie.     

[af_newbie]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

than why you people can not hear to religious beliefs where is your freedom of speech. Why the hell you people are blaming religions for all the mess

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

And what about the diseases spreading from this homosexuality thing can you justify that as well. What about AIDS, many people die every year due to this disease and you think homosexuality is right and i consider it as a murder of innocent people from this gay community. You are savages living lives without any clear rules and instructions just living it. What about rape, alcohol, child abuse, murder, terrorism and other many bad deeds from which religions stops human beings.

Religion does not stop those things.  If anything, it encourages it and/or supports it.

BTW, you can get HIV on your next visit to the dentist.  HIV is spread through the exchange of bodily fluids, you ignoramus.

You are a barbarian.  Do you think you stand on the higher moral ground with your 6th-century wisdom?

You are ignoring centuries of scientific and technological progress we have made as a human race.

You are locked in a time capsule.  

yes you are right hiv spreads from fluid or serum but you are not pointing out the root cause from where it started. And what you are saying that religions does not stops but encourages it, how can you even say that when you don’t even know about religions. And what you are talking about science and 21 century so religions made laws to live many centuries  ago and science is following it. I feel pity for your thinking.

Do you want the root cause? Here it is:

https://www.theaidsinstitute.org/education/aids-101/where-did-hiv-come-0

I hope you will not teach your ignorance to your children.  Hopefully, you will no children to teach your 6th-century wisdom.

ehteist just want to eliminate religion from world which will never happen

Wrong again.  We want to expose the stupid, barbaric ideas religions profess.  

Religions will eliminate themselves.

Bad ideas will be replaced with better ideas.  That is how progress is made in pretty much anything.

On equal political footing, religions would not stand a chance against secular, scientific thought.

than you should search for the origin of science where started from and scientists who were involved were not secular nor etheist.

The ones that were, were burned at the stake, hung from a tree, crucified or had their heads chopped off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

Here is a quote from Galileo for you to ponder on:

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go."

Newton believed in the "God of the Gaps", just like some scientists today.

Religion fills an emotional need.  It reassures believers that things will be ok, that some father figure is always there to help them.
This is self-delusion, but it does offer some psychological help to some people.  People like yourself.

If your religion stops you from killing people, you should strongly believe in your God and abide by the laws in the corresponding scriptures.

than what about Einstein and Thomas Edison what about many other scientists
You can not blame religions for every thing happening in this world. You think religion is impeding progress and I think it’s the inequality which is spreading hate.

Why do you care what famous scientists thought or said?  Are you looking for validation?  Are you believing in Spinoza's God?

For every scientist who believed (or believes) in God (in some shape, or form), I can find you 10 that don't.

If I were you, I would worry more about becoming an Islamist.  You want to kill gays, so you are half way there.

Your scripture can lead you into a slippery slope, 'kill gays' -> Islamist -> Jihadist -> Terrorist

its not about killing gay its about law which religions defined for human beings and for us we have to follow them. you dont follow religion if you dont want to but criticizing others is not justifiable.

I care about others that is why I am criticizing religions when religions are calling for a genocide of the whole group of people.

The moral code you have in the Quran was written for the 7th-century culture.  It has no place in the 21st century.

You have to stand up to evil, otherwise, the evil will run amok.

PS. Allah 'said' that wine is the work of the devil and one should not consume it, then he 'created' the heaven with rivers full of wine for you to enjoy.  Obviously, two different guys wrote the verses without knowing what the other wrote.

You believe in nonsense.  The nonsense that can lead you to kill people.  Just think about it for a second, if you can.  How in the world do you think you are going to establish the Sharia Law in the whole world?  By genocide that is how.

This ideology is as evil as they come.  Sickens me to even think about it.
 
Hitler's Mein Kampf is nothing compared to the Quran.

[BADecker]

^^^ Actually, the moral code written in the Koran and Hadiths has no place in the world now, or ever in the past. It was something perpetrated by Satan to destroy the work of the real God. The god of Islam is Satan.

[CoinCube]

You clearly do not understand my position.  I do not have a choice.

My brain does not allow me to accept things that cannot be validated by science.  My epistemology is based on that.

^^ How does anyone know if all of the things that science has not validated can be scientifically validated? Do you have scientific validation that you do not have a choice without scientific validation?

The things that science cannot explain, I am ok with simply not knowing.

^^ If you don't have scientific validation for the idea that you only have choice with scientific validation, you don't really know if you only have scientifically validated choice. But you said that you only have scientifically validated choice, above.

You think I have made this choice but I am telling you I do not make choices to know what is true and what is not.

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

^^ Has it been scientifically validated that things are true or false without you choosing them? Quantum Entanglement suggests otherwise.

You have a choice, actually infinite number of them, you are limited only by your imagination, I, on the other hand, am confined to what science can discover and validate.

^^ Has science validated that you exist? If it hasn't, you may not be able to choose anything, scientifically validated or not... especially that someone else has some choices.

In a way, I envy you, you are an ignorant simpleton who is only limited by his imagination.  

^^ Has that been scientifically validated, or are you contradicting yourself by choosing to suggest such without scientific validation?

I wish I was dumber, life would have been a lot simpler.  Instead, I see a very complex world and I am sad that other people are dumb as rocks.  Where is the natural selection when you need her?

^^ If you continue on your course in life, you will probably become dumber. Perhaps you should have yourself checked out by several psychiatrists and psychologists. Particularly, show them you points in your post that I am quoting here, so that they understand what they are dealing with in you.

Besides, natural selection has not been scientifically validated. The closest it has come are the few jokers who suggest that it might have been scientifically validated.

You have to stand up to evil, otherwise, the evil will run amok.

The existence of evil and the moral obligation to oppose it also cannot be validated by science af_newbie. BADecker has done you a great service in deconstructing and highlighting the flaws in your logic. It is my recommendation that you spend some time pondering his comments.

[af_newbie]

You clearly do not understand my position.  I do not have a choice.

My brain does not allow me to accept things that cannot be validated by science.  My epistemology is based on that.

^^ How does anyone know if all of the things that science has not validated can be scientifically validated? Do you have scientific validation that you do not have a choice without scientific validation?

The things that science cannot explain, I am ok with simply not knowing.

^^ If you don't have scientific validation for the idea that you only have choice with scientific validation, you don't really know if you only have scientifically validated choice. But you said that you only have scientifically validated choice, above.

You think I have made this choice but I am telling you I do not make choices to know what is true and what is not.

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

^^ Has it been scientifically validated that things are true or false without you choosing them? Quantum Entanglement suggests otherwise.

You have a choice, actually infinite number of them, you are limited only by your imagination, I, on the other hand, am confined to what science can discover and validate.

^^ Has science validated that you exist? If it hasn't, you may not be able to choose anything, scientifically validated or not... especially that someone else has some choices.

In a way, I envy you, you are an ignorant simpleton who is only limited by his imagination.  

^^ Has that been scientifically validated, or are you contradicting yourself by choosing to suggest such without scientific validation?

I wish I was dumber, life would have been a lot simpler.  Instead, I see a very complex world and I am sad that other people are dumb as rocks.  Where is the natural selection when you need her?

^^ If you continue on your course in life, you will probably become dumber. Perhaps you should have yourself checked out by several psychiatrists and psychologists. Particularly, show them you points in your post that I am quoting here, so that they understand what they are dealing with in you.

Besides, natural selection has not been scientifically validated. The closest it has come are the few jokers who suggest that it might have been scientifically validated.

You have to stand up to evil, otherwise, the evil will run amok.

The existence of evil and the moral obligation to oppose it also cannot be validated by science af_newbie. BADecker has done you a great service in deconstructing and highlighting the flaws in your logic. It is my recommendation that you spend some time pondering his comments.

It means a lot coming from a person who believes the evolution is a hoax.  He exposed his own lunacy, that is about it.

See you guys in the movies.

PS. All three of you, notbatman, BADecker and you should get together to iron out the details of your individual delusions. Clinically, you are all the same.  Failure to perceive reality.

[Astargath]

^^^ Actually, the moral code written in the Koran and Hadiths has no place in the world now, or ever in the past. It was something perpetrated by Satan to destroy the work of the real God. The god of Islam is Satan.

Well, god himself killed a ton of people, satan? Not so many, it almost seems like Satan is better than a God who creates people to simply wipe them out eventually, knowing beforehand he would do so, pointless, an all powerful and knowing being would simply not do that, it's illogical.

[BADecker]

^^^ God makes people alive. God lets people die. God does everything. When people come to life or die, God does it, just like He rolls the stars around, runs the electric-plasma engines that make the stars shine, makes the earthquakes and the peace that follows. The whole thing is His, He makes it all happen in every way, and understanding how and why He does things is what counts.

Satan can't do anything. Rather, (in this universe, at least) Satan requests from God, and God is the Mover Who does it. Why? Because nothing in this universe happens without God doing it.

Why does God answer requests to do bad things? Because when He set up this universe, He set it up on a request basis, that He would answer requests. There wasn't any idea of death or evil with God. But even though Satan - and to a lesser extent, people - brought evil into being, God doesn't change His answering of requests.

The interesting part about this is, God has His own plan that will get rid of all the evil. He will do it by creating the Lake of Fire, and dissolving the whole universe in it... including Satan, his angel followers, and all his human followers, as well. Why will He do this to those people and fallen angels? Because they are asking for God to not be in their presence. The LoF crash will be the result of God leaving this universe at their request.

God owns it; He has the right and duty. He, also, offers everyone a way out... Jesus salvation. Even believers die in this life. And God does it for them, so that they can put off the evil, and take up their places in heavenly joy... with a new body that doesn't have any of the weakness of this one.

So sad that you are going to miss it by asking God not to be in your life. But, God does it for you, whatever it is that you ask. You just don't realize all the things that you are really asking when you ask something. For example. If you are like af_newbie, and ask God to write something in this forum, you are really saying down deep that you want God to NOT write anything in this forum, especially when you request Him to, because you don't want to be forced into accepting the reality of God. (Why do I waste my time on you?)


You are like the quadriplegic who feels so helpless that he wants to die. But he is so weak that he can't take his own life. So he says, "Let me die; I can't take any more of this," not knowing that it is God he is requesting his death from. For a long time God withholds death, trying to get the guy to ask to be saved. And it actually stresses God to stretch His "disobedience" of His own law of giving what was asked for (The stretching is what pained the soul of Jesus, to death, on the cross).

But finally God gives the quadriplegic joker what he asks for. Too bad the QJ didn't realize that there was a lot more to the rejection of God than the simple "blankness" he was asking for. God tried to warn him over and over... even prepared a way (Jesus salvation) to get him out of his illness and into a new body in joy and happiness, forever.

But even the blankness of complete reduction to nothingness will be accomplished in the QJ. It will all be done at the end of eternity.

[Astargath]

^^^ God makes people alive. God lets people die. God does everything. When people come to life or die, God does it, just like He rolls the stars around, runs the electric-plasma engines that make the stars shine, makes the earthquakes and the peace that follows. The whole thing is His, He makes it all happen in every way, and understanding how and why He does things is what counts.

Satan can't do anything. Rather, (in this universe, at least) Satan requests from God, and God is the Mover Who does it. Why? Because nothing in this universe happens without God doing it.

Why does God answer requests to do bad things? Because when He set up this universe, He set it up on a request basis, that He would answer requests. There wasn't any idea of death or evil with God. But even though Satan - and to a lesser extent, people - brought evil into being, God doesn't change His answering of requests.

The interesting part about this is, God has His own plan that will get rid of all the evil. He will do it by creating the Lake of Fire, and dissolving the whole universe in it... including Satan, his angel followers, and all his human followers, as well. Why will He do this to those people and fallen angels? Because they are asking for God to not be in their presence. The LoF crash will be the result of God leaving this universe at their request.

God owns it; He has the right and duty. He, also, offers everyone a way out... Jesus salvation. Even believers die in this life. And God does it for them, so that they can put off the evil, and take up their places in heavenly joy... with a new body that doesn't have any of the weakness of this one.

So sad that you are going to miss it by asking God not to be in your life. But, God does it for you, whatever it is that you ask. You just don't realize all the things that you are really asking when you ask something. For example. If you are like af_newbie, and ask God to write something in this forum, you are really saying down deep that you want God to NOT write anything in this forum, especially when you request Him to, because you don't want to be forced into accepting the reality of God. (Why do I waste my time on you?)


You are like the quadriplegic who feels so helpless that he wants to die. But he is so weak that he can't take his own life. So he says, "Let me die; I can't take any more of this," not knowing that it is God he is requesting his death from. For a long time God withholds death, trying to get the guy to ask to be saved. And it actually stresses God to stretch His "disobedience" of His own law of giving what was asked for (The stretching is what pained the soul of Jesus, to death, on the cross).

But finally God gives the quadriplegic joker what he asks for. Too bad the QJ didn't realize that there was a lot more to the rejection of God than the simple "blankness" he was asking for. God tried to warn him over and over... even prepared a way (Jesus salvation) to get him out of his illness and into a new body in joy and happiness, forever.

But even the blankness of complete reduction to nothingness will be accomplished in the QJ. It will all be done at the end of eternity.

''Why does God answer requests to do bad things? Because when He set up this universe, He set it up on a request basis, that He would answer requests.'' Damn you are falling in a deeper hole every time you type anything, so god answers requests even if those requests are about killing other people which essentially gets rid of their free will which you always defend, at this point my brain is exploding of how ILLOGICAL what you said is, it's quite remarkable.

[BADecker]

^^^ I'm kinda sad for you that you can't seem to absorb but one idea at a time, and even then not the whole thing. There's gotta be classes out there that you could attend so that your IQ could go up just a little.

Most people who ask things of God are asking many things at the same time. Some of them are contradictory. The way God answers is a perfect way.

As I said in another post, if you asked for death, you know full well that you probably wouldn't really be asking for death. What you would really be asking for is the solution to some problem that you are dumb enough that you can't see any other answer than death. But you don't really want to die. If you did, you wouldn't formulate the question. You'd simply go out and suicide yourself.

Same with Eve in the Garden. She didn't want the death that God promised her for eating the fruit. Rather, she wanted wisdom in such a way that she would be like God. But by listening to the serpent, she was really asking for death at the same time she was asking for better life. God gave her both. We don't know how long she lived, but it was probably in the order of 800 or 900 years. And then she died. Odds are very great that she is with God, right now, alive, in Paradise.

So, you see? You need to realize that your simplistic questions are not as simple as you think. Go to IQ school so that you can figure out how to formulate slightly more complex questions.

[BADecker]

It means a lot coming from a person who believes the evolution is a hoax.  He exposed his own lunacy, that is about it.

See you guys in the movies.

PS. All three of you, notbatman, BADecker and you should get together to iron out the details of your individual delusions. Clinically, you are all the same.  Failure to perceive reality.

So, now that evolution has been shown to be a hoax, you are turning it into a religion for yourself.

Are you going to the movies to watch "Alita: Battle Angel?"

Did you get over to the psychiatric ward yet, to see what the shrinks think about you?

[CoinCube]

You clearly do not understand my position.  I do not have a choice.

My brain does not allow me to accept things that cannot be validated by science.  My epistemology is based on that.

^^ How does anyone know if all of the things that science has not validated can be scientifically validated? Do you have scientific validation that you do not have a choice without scientific validation?

The things that science cannot explain, I am ok with simply not knowing.

^^ If you don't have scientific validation for the idea that you only have choice with scientific validation, you don't really know if you only have scientifically validated choice. But you said that you only have scientifically validated choice, above.

You think I have made this choice but I am telling you I do not make choices to know what is true and what is not.

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

^^ Has it been scientifically validated that things are true or false without you choosing them? Quantum Entanglement suggests otherwise.

You have a choice, actually infinite number of them, you are limited only by your imagination, I, on the other hand, am confined to what science can discover and validate.

^^ Has science validated that you exist? If it hasn't, you may not be able to choose anything, scientifically validated or not... especially that someone else has some choices.

In a way, I envy you, you are an ignorant simpleton who is only limited by his imagination.  

^^ Has that been scientifically validated, or are you contradicting yourself by choosing to suggest such without scientific validation?

I wish I was dumber, life would have been a lot simpler.  Instead, I see a very complex world and I am sad that other people are dumb as rocks.  Where is the natural selection when you need her?

^^ If you continue on your course in life, you will probably become dumber. Perhaps you should have yourself checked out by several psychiatrists and psychologists. Particularly, show them you points in your post that I am quoting here, so that they understand what they are dealing with in you.

Besides, natural selection has not been scientifically validated. The closest it has come are the few jokers who suggest that it might have been scientifically validated.

You have to stand up to evil, otherwise, the evil will run amok.

The existence of evil and the moral obligation to oppose it also cannot be validated by science af_newbie. BADecker has done you a great service in deconstructing and highlighting the flaws in your logic. It is my recommendation that you spend some time pondering his comments.

It means a lot coming from a person who believes the evolution is a hoax.  He exposed his own lunacy, that is about it.

See you guys in the movies.

PS. All three of you, notbatman, BADecker and you should get together to iron out the details of your individual delusions. Clinically, you are all the same. Failure to perceive reality.

You should be aware you have diagnosed yourself here af_newbie. If you truly cannot see the glaring logical contradictions in your thoughts highlighted immediately above it can only be described as willful blindness.

You seem to care deeply about stopping evil and the advancement of society. You fail to understand that your incorrect perception of reality prevents the achievement of those ends. You are actively working at cross purposes to your stated goal and cannot see it.

The Three Parts of Morality by C.S. Lewis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTeCyrgjIQ

[Astargath]

^^^ I'm kinda sad for you that you can't seem to absorb but one idea at a time, and even then not the whole thing. There's gotta be classes out there that you could attend so that your IQ could go up just a little.

Most people who ask things of God are asking many things at the same time. Some of them are contradictory. The way God answers is a perfect way.

As I said in another post, if you asked for death, you know full well that you probably wouldn't really be asking for death. What you would really be asking for is the solution to some problem that you are dumb enough that you can't see any other answer than death. But you don't really want to die. If you did, you wouldn't formulate the question. You'd simply go out and suicide yourself.

Same with Eve in the Garden. She didn't want the death that God promised her for eating the fruit. Rather, she wanted wisdom in such a way that she would be like God. But by listening to the serpent, she was really asking for death at the same time she was asking for better life. God gave her both. We don't know how long she lived, but it was probably in the order of 800 or 900 years. And then she died. Odds are very great that she is with God, right now, alive, in Paradise.

So, you see? You need to realize that your simplistic questions are not as simple as you think. Go to IQ school so that you can figure out how to formulate slightly more complex questions.

You literally said god answers Satan's requests which is simply stupid. Why would god answer Satan's requests? Were you drunk when you typed that?

[af_newbie]

You clearly do not understand my position.  I do not have a choice.

My brain does not allow me to accept things that cannot be validated by science.  My epistemology is based on that.

^^ How does anyone know if all of the things that science has not validated can be scientifically validated? Do you have scientific validation that you do not have a choice without scientific validation?

The things that science cannot explain, I am ok with simply not knowing.

^^ If you don't have scientific validation for the idea that you only have choice with scientific validation, you don't really know if you only have scientifically validated choice. But you said that you only have scientifically validated choice, above.

You think I have made this choice but I am telling you I do not make choices to know what is true and what is not.

Things are true or false without me choosing them.

^^ Has it been scientifically validated that things are true or false without you choosing them? Quantum Entanglement suggests otherwise.

You have a choice, actually infinite number of them, you are limited only by your imagination, I, on the other hand, am confined to what science can discover and validate.

^^ Has science validated that you exist? If it hasn't, you may not be able to choose anything, scientifically validated or not... especially that someone else has some choices.

In a way, I envy you, you are an ignorant simpleton who is only limited by his imagination.  

^^ Has that been scientifically validated, or are you contradicting yourself by choosing to suggest such without scientific validation?

I wish I was dumber, life would have been a lot simpler.  Instead, I see a very complex world and I am sad that other people are dumb as rocks.  Where is the natural selection when you need her?

^^ If you continue on your course in life, you will probably become dumber. Perhaps you should have yourself checked out by several psychiatrists and psychologists. Particularly, show them you points in your post that I am quoting here, so that they understand what they are dealing with in you.

Besides, natural selection has not been scientifically validated. The closest it has come are the few jokers who suggest that it might have been scientifically validated.

You have to stand up to evil, otherwise, the evil will run amok.

The existence of evil and the moral obligation to oppose it also cannot be validated by science af_newbie. BADecker has done you a great service in deconstructing and highlighting the flaws in your logic. It is my recommendation that you spend some time pondering his comments.

It means a lot coming from a person who believes the evolution is a hoax.  He exposed his own lunacy, that is about it.

See you guys in the movies.

PS. All three of you, notbatman, BADecker and you should get together to iron out the details of your individual delusions. Clinically, you are all the same. Failure to perceive reality.

You should be aware you have diagnosed yourself here af_newbie. If you truly cannot see the glaring logical contradictions in your thoughts highlighted immediately above it can only be described as willful blindness.

You seem to care deeply about stopping evil and the advancement of society. You fail to understand that your incorrect perception of reality prevents the achievement of those ends. You are actively working at cross purposes to your stated goal and cannot see it.

The Three Parts of Morality by C.S. Lewis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTeCyrgjIQ

Yes, I fail to perceive your delusional 'reality'.

My senses are failing me in detecting your "unknown and undefined agent who is outside of this universe and influences everything in this universe, an agent who decided to inspire people to write some books but not others, etc."  I am paraphrasing as I don't remember all the details of your delusion.

I suspect you are not only delusional but also paranoid.  You see evil in any progressive thought, people who criticize the Bible, or people who believe in some other religions.  I suspect you view Atheists are the evilest of all people.  I think you have more in common with Islamists than you are willing to admit.

Yet, you admit that you are against slavery.  At least you are better than your God on that point, LOL.

You are an enigma, but I am not an expert in Psychiatry so I cannot help you further.

I suspect your delusion is not as severe as BADecker's or notbatman's, but I cannot be sure.  You could be masking it well because you are brighter than most people who suffer from these religious delusions.

[af_newbie]

...
I care about others that is why I am criticizing religions when religions are calling for a genocide of the whole group of people.

The moral code you have in the Quran was written for the 7th-century culture.  It has no place in the 21st century.

You have to stand up to evil, otherwise, the evil will run amok.

PS. Allah 'said' that wine is the work of the devil and one should not consume it, then he 'created' the heaven with rivers full of wine for you to enjoy.  Obviously, two different guys wrote the verses without knowing what the other wrote.

You believe in nonsense.  The nonsense that can lead you to kill people.  Just think about it for a second, if you can.  How in the world do you think you are going to establish the Sharia Law in the whole world?  By genocide that is how.

This ideology is as evil as they come.  Sickens me to even think about it.
 
Hitler's Mein Kampf is nothing compared to the Quran.

and you were born in 20th century so better kill yourself because you are getting old and can not implement your old thinking in 21st century of latest science and technology .

No wonder you believe in the Islamic horseshit.  You make no sense, other than the part where you want me dead.

Let me guess, you are against modern technology and any social progress but don't mind using an app to see which way is Mecca when you pray, LOL.  Do you also keep the Quran on your latest, greatest iPhone?

You must be hit with cognitive dissonance every fucking day.  

You present no arguments to support your position because you have none.

PS. It is as if in the 1950s some guy had a dream that he talked to an angel and told his friend, who told his friends.  Then in the year 2005, some other guy (working in the nursing home talked to some residents who told him about the guy from the 1950s and his dream about the angel) wrote a manifesto based on it and called it the Quran.  Makes perfect sense.