Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[TR4L]

Aahzman wrote:

Maybe you should stand somewhere else.

- The guy "running the company" isn't the guy who was convicted of mail fraud. *BUZZ* try again.
- They never promised ASIC product for August 2012. They predicted they'd be able to ship by October 2012. *BUZZ* try again.
- Ok, this one is accurate. Josh does come off like a humongous douchecanoe. *DING*
- UH, no, press releases are not "always 'great' and exactly what you want to hear". Most press releases are apologizing for yet another delay, production/testing problem, etc, and begging for customer patience and forgiveness. In fact, the vast majority of press releases are pretty much the OPPOSITE of "exactly what you want to hear", since I'm sure the overwhelming majority of pre-order customers want to hear "Hey, we're shipping your unit(s) now!" *BUZZ*

SO, let's see, 3 out of 4 assertions incorrect.  *golfclap*

But yes, please do continue to encourage people to cancel their pre-orders and get refunds. Every cancelled pre-order earlier than mine means I move up the line and get mine sooner.
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I have a question regarding the bolded statement -- The guy "running the company" isn't the guy who was convicted of mail fraud.
Before my question however, I would like to share a story:

There was a newly created school in NY for 5 year olds. This school promised to essentially turn 5 year olds into Einsteins within 30 days. It's promise was that it would increase the IQ of a student by 30-40 points.  The "guy running the school" (the Principal) was a highly qualified individual who was well liked by both the school's staff as well as the parents.  Every parent who enrolled their child into the school believed that the school could indeed significantly increase the IQ of their children. Their wish was that they're child could someday grow up to change the world for the better.  The blogs and reviews for the school were extremely positive.  The school's advertisements could been seen everywhere.  If a Google search of the words increase+IQ were performed, the first paid ad that appeared was for the school. But the clouds began to darken.

A parent, concerned that 30 days had elapsed and her 5 year old son "Johny" still didn't know his ABC's began to dig into the background of the staff and to her surprise discovered that a "high level executive" within the schoold was a Registered Sex Offender (a pedophile), a Level 1 to be precise (the most violent/determined to reoffend again). He was arrested and convicted of raping a 5 year old boy.  This "high level executive" was actually on parole and a condition of his parole was that he not have any contact with children.  His presence in the school as a "high level executive" was therefore a clear violation of the conditions of his parole. 

When the concerned parent began telling the other parents about what she had discovered, they began to surmise that maybe, just maybe, this "high level executive" was actually the one pulling all the strings in the school and that the "guy running the school" (the Principal) was just a front man, after all, you couldn't have a convicted pedophile as the Principal of a school for 5 year olds. More rumors began to spread that maybe, just maybe, the entire school was a scam devised by the convicted pedophile as a means to gain access to hundreds of 5 year olds, where he could have his pick.

As word began to spread, parents began to remove their children from the school.  Many parents however, kept their children enrolled despite the fact that their 5 year olds would be in the same building on a daily basis with this convicted pedophile. They continued to keep their children in the school even after 60 days elapsed and there was no increase in their child's intelligence, then 90 days and no increase, then 120 days and no increase, then 150 days and no increase, then 180 days and no increase.  Eventually, the school year came to an end and the children were no smarter than the day they first entered the school.  But despite this, some parents planned to re-enroll their children the following year. Their rationale was that they believed that the school could deliver even after it failed to deliver month after month for the prior school year.

When asked why they would keep their children in the school after its failure to deliver as promised, they couldn't provide a logical answer. They would always provide a statement that translated into "I still believe in the school because I have hope that they might deliver" and when asked about the convicted pedophile lurking within the school, they responded that he wasn't a teacher nor was he the principal, he was a "high level executive" walking amongst their children on a daily basis.

So my question is as follows:

If you were to initially enroll your child into this school and it continued to fail to deliver (increase his/her IQ by 30-40 points in 30 days) and then you discovered that a "high level executive" working inside of the school was convicted pedophile, would you keep your child in the school?

I understand that this is quite late compared to the post, but this post is pretty ridiculous.  First of all, if you're going to compare teaching kids with delivering ASIC units, you have to add that the ONLY other school does not take any students and your only other option is homeschool (and for arguments sake, let's say they're learning rocket science, you know... because not very many people know how to build an ASIC miner... or rocket science..).  Second of all, you should relate the convict to a principal that stole money from a college that he worked at, rather than a pedophile.  Pedophilia is purely disgusting and is far worse than stealing money, regardless of how you look at it, the 2 shouldn't be connected in any way (unless the Pedo stole money, but that would be another story altogether).

You can hate on BFL all you want, but this is a terrible analogy; not only is it offensive (to people that had their child raped or have been raped themselves as children) but it also made you look like a complete asshole.

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[Aahzman]

You can hate on BFL all you want, but this is a terrible analogy; not only is it offensive (to people that had their child raped or have been raped themselves as children) but it also made you look like a complete asshole.

True dat, yo.  Glad to see I wasn't the only one that thought Pangia came off like a pretentious douchebag.

[charleshoskinson]

Lol, I love the boolean nature of this thread. Everyone is digging in deep on their positions.

[greenie214]

more asics being shipped.
just waiting for my 2 to come through
ok link was removed. just head to the most recent facebook post fro butterfly labs

[jml]

Lol, I love the boolean nature of this thread. Everyone is digging in deep on their positions.

No mamdani or TSK or AnYa Fuzzy Rule Based systems here!

[charleshoskinson]

JML are you a mathematician or a computer scientist?

[jml]

JML are you a mathematician or a computer scientist?

latter

[NargoMargo]

Love how the ads for this thread were for butterflylabs... Backhanded humor.

[GuiltySpark343]

I'm a late-comer to the Bitcoin world, and worried about all ASICs, as I'm sure many are. Especially when (some say IF) the 1500 GH/s miners are shipped.

Currently, I spent $800 to get two 7970s, which are giving me an aggregate of 1.2 GH/s hash rate. This is about 0.001 of the total hash rate of my current pool (Eligius, ~1500 GH/s), and 0.000015 of the total hash rate of the entire network (Blockchain.info, ~76,730 GH/s).

For the same $800, you could be lucky enough to get three 5 GH/s miners from BFL, netting you 15 GH/s or 12.5x my current hash rate. I'm sure there are early adopters out there who can afford the 50 or 1500 GH/s units that BFL is selling.

I wonder what my future hash rate will have to be in order to maintain the status quo (ie. keeping my hash rate 0.001 of my pool, and 0.000015 of the entire network) once ASICs are out in force. Even if you are skeptical of BFL, I'm worried that I have to buy an ASIC just to "maintain the status quo." I'm not trying to get rich, I'm just trying to stay above water!

Or maybe this is like Wargames movie with Matthew Broderick ... the only way to win, is not to play.

[tigerbay]

It is always hard to know who to trust in a market as new as this.... especially with the value going up as much as it did.

[darkmule]

Send in the shills.
There have to be shills.
20 post newbies appear
Descend from the hills. . .

[charleshoskinson]

I'm a number theorist who moved over into crypto because he likes money

[GameKyuubi]

So if these are legit, won't this totally change the face of mining?  I mean, GPU mining did it once, and it's going to happen again.  Mining efficiently will become a serious investment.

[Monsters2r]

As long as there is some profit to be made I will mine...to cover my hardware costs.

[ISAWHIM]

So if these are legit, won't this totally change the face of mining?  I mean, GPU mining did it once, and it's going to happen again.  Mining efficiently will become a serious investment.

That is the whole point of advancement... To advance... and Grow...

Without advancement, you fail to provide what is commonly called, "supply".

Yes, it will alter the market.
 - Faster transactions
 - More stability in value
 - Harder to hack, and disrupt, once again
 - Reduced overhead losses from "electric" expenses, which is the greatest overhead at the moment

Will that kill GPU processing?
 - No, new cards come out all the time
 - They are still profitable as-is
 - They can still make money from "transaction-fees"
 - They can still mine new and emergent "parallel" systems to balance the existing advanced "bitcoin" market
 - They can be re-sold for, um, actually playing games, giving money to those for the "advanced" rigs of tomorrow

It is not a total loss... they have had over a YEAR to prepare for the inevitable, and make provisions for advancement.

It is not like we are just going to wake-up tomorrow, and poof, a million 1000GH/s machines are going to be online. They are slowly rolling out, which continues to add to the stability and lower the "shock", while allowing the market to self-regulate and expand.

You also imply that $120 USD bitcoins are some-how actually justified. That value only exists because of GPU processing. Just as $1000USD per BTC will be the new level of "justified value", once the volume of transactions picks-up.

[fortalyst]

So do we still think there's no truth to butterfly labs honoring their orders & the equipment actually meeting expectations?

[Signus]

website looks cheesy

Not always a justification for a scam. Plus they've had that site for over a good year.

[TR4L]

Even if BFL doesn't ship in time to make $10k a month (the projected income for BTC/USD for the 60Gh/s units),  I will still be able to (at the very least) make a few hundred a month and considering that I only $1400 for the unit, I'll have it paid off in less than six months and make extra money afterwards.  I doubt I'll be making any less than a few thousand a month, but I'm setting my standards very low.

[TR4L]

I will also roll all over my floor laughing at all the people making fun of me because I took a risk with BFL.  Believe me,  I will gladly throw it in your face that I'm at 60gh/s with a wonderful video and a few pictures.   Shit, I'll throw in a pic of my wallet after 24 hours of mining, just to piss you off.   

[FuzzyBanana92]

Honestly, I think I will purchase the little one during the summer.

Most of the time I can feel if something is going to be a scam or not, and for some reason, this seems legit enough.

Yeah it might be a risk, but it would be a risk that would be beneficial if they come through.