[BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[unclescrooge]

I'm a novice in trading, but you should work on the front-end design + the documentation for sure.

Tell me about that. I've focused mainly on the features, this part is done, and I totally agree that I should now focus on user experience. That is what I'm working on right now.

What I also suggest is to deduct the fees directly under the P/L after we place an order to see when we have to close for a profitable position.

Hey, that's a good idea! I'll implement that shortly.

Thanks for the suggestions
Raphael

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[unclescrooge]

So I updated the displayed profit/loss to include the worst case scanerio fee (mtgox at 0.4%).

But it still an estimation, based on the ticker price. When you close a position, especially if it's a big one, you may and probably will get a less interesting price, depending on the market depth (you can check on the small order books above trading page what the current depth is). And if you go through bitfinex, your fees will be at 0.1% only

Now, let's get the documentation done.

Raphael

[StarenseN]

So I updated the displayed profit/loss to include the worst case scanerio fee (mtgox at 0.4%).

But it still an estimation, based on the ticker price. When you close a position, especially if it's a big one, you may and probably will get a less interesting price, depending on the market depth (you can check on the small order books above trading page what the current depth is). And if you go through bitfinex, your fees will be at 0.1% only

Now, let's get the documentation done.

Raphael

Ok but i was talking about the 0.1% BTC fee on opening position and 0.4% BTC fee on closing position, 0.5% BTC fee sum.

[unclescrooge]

So I updated the displayed profit/loss to include the worst case scanerio fee (mtgox at 0.4%).

But it still an estimation, based on the ticker price. When you close a position, especially if it's a big one, you may and probably will get a less interesting price, depending on the market depth (you can check on the small order books above trading page what the current depth is). And if you go through bitfinex, your fees will be at 0.1% only

Now, let's get the documentation done.

Raphael

Ok but i was talking about the 0.1% BTC fee on opening position and 0.4% BTC fee on closing position, 0.5% BTC fee sum.

Oh I see. There is no fee for opening and closing a position, only fees for order execution (so yes, you have fees at the opening and closing of your position but that not the same thing).

The fees for order execution depends on the exchange on which your order is executed:
-if your order goes through Mtgox, you have 0.4% fee
-if your order is executed on Bitfinex, you have only 0.1% fee.

It's complicated to include the "opening" fees for a position because the size of this position can vary, you can increase it, decrease it, so for now I don't see that coming. I'll get back to you on that.

Cheers
Raphael

[unclescrooge]

Hi,

Our hosting provider is having some issues right now. Bitfinex is down, but the service should be restored shortly.

We'll keep you updated.

Raphael

[myself]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B911s2B50mC1dEk2UU1kcWs1M0E/edit a basic flowchart about the lending and trade on margin (leverage) 

[unclescrooge]

Hi all,

So service has been restore to normal. No explanation from our hosting provider, but we will make sure it won't happen again.

Thanks for your understanding
Raphael

[ninjaboon]

@ninjaboon you have a deposit account is that correct ?

a work around this is go to account settings > account type and select trader instead of depositor it seams the bug happen only for depositor accounts

you are right. the bug only occurs on deposit acconts. thank you.

Hi Ninjaboon,

This javascript bug should be solved for depositor account.

Thanks for reporting it

Raphael

no problem. love your service. keep up the good work.

[ThaddeusB]

Question: why when I enter a limit order and rout it to MtGox does it not actually go into the MtGox order book?  It seems the only way a limit bid will be executed is if the ask drops to the bid price.  That defeats the whole point of a limit order.

[myself]

Question: why when I enter a limit order and rout it to MtGox does it not actually go into the MtGox order book?  

Because posting and cancelling orders for mtgox are not instant, this type of orders are what internally I call them hard orders the discussion about them started on 12/11/2012 and yet we have to find a solution for this, this orders required features like; paying interest for taking credits no matter if you use the credit or not so if you decide to erect walls using credit you pay the interest, the only thing that give problems is execution time.

[ThaddeusB]

Question: why when I enter a limit order and rout it to MtGox does it not actually go into the MtGox order book?  

Because posting and cancelling orders for mtgox are not instant, this type of orders are what internally I call them hard orders the discussion about them started on 12/11/2012 and yet we have to find a solution for this, this orders required features like; paying interest for taking credits no matter if you use the credit or not so if you decide to erect walls using credit you pay the interest, the only thing that give problems is execution time.

It might not be "instant" but it does post within 30 seconds at the most when I place at MtGox.  Even an hour later my order I placed with you wasn't on Mtgox, so basically you offer market orders only.  That makes your service useless to anyone looking to get a decent price instead of just taking what the market offers.  At the very least you should not deceptively allow limit orders that will never be posted.  

Also, you don't post the order if I place it using the "exchange" account either.  In theory I am only trying to sell MY coin in that account, so your excuse about needing to charge interest even if the order is not executed is invalid. 

I won't be using your service any further until you come up with a solution.  The .5-1% I lose from being forced to buy at market is significantly more than anything I might save in fees.

[myself]

Question: why when I enter a limit order and rout it to MtGox does it not actually go into the MtGox order book?  

Because posting and cancelling orders for mtgox are not instant, this type of orders are what internally I call them hard orders the discussion about them started on 12/11/2012 and yet we have to find a solution for this, this orders required features like; paying interest for taking credits no matter if you use the credit or not so if you decide to erect walls using credit you pay the interest, the only thing that give problems is execution time.

It might not be "instant" but it does post within 30 seconds at the most when I place at MtGox.  Even an hour later my order I placed with you wasn't on Mtgox, so basically you offer market orders only.  That makes your service useless to anyone looking to get a decent price instead of just taking what the market offers.  At the very least you should not deceptively allow limit orders that will never be posted.  

I never said that orders are posted on mtgox orderbook ( a nowhere on bfx page say that) i told you WHY we dont put orders on mtgox orderbook

Also, you don't post the order if I place it using the "exchange" account either.  In theory I am only trying to sell MY coin in that account, so your excuse about needing to charge interest even if the order is not executed is invalid.  

same answer like above

In theory I am only trying to sell MY coin in that account, so your excuse about needing to charge interest even if the order is not executed is invalid.

exchange accounts /exchange wallets don't pay any interest because you do the trading with your funds and don't with other users funds

[unclescrooge]

It might not be "instant" but it does post within 30 seconds at the most when I place at MtGox.  Even an hour later my order I placed with you wasn't on Mtgox, so basically you offer market orders only.  That makes your service useless to anyone looking to get a decent price instead of just taking what the market offers.  At the very least you should not deceptively allow limit orders that will never be posted.  

Also, you don't post the order if I place it using the "exchange" account either.  In theory I am only trying to sell MY coin in that account, so your excuse about needing to charge interest even if the order is not executed is invalid. 
I won't be using your service any further until you come up with a solution.  The .5-1% I lose from being forced to buy at market is significantly more than anything I might save in fees.

Hi Thaddeus,

I understand perfectly this issue and am sorry if you thought we placed your orders on mtgox orderbook. It is still a limit order because it won't be executed are less than your set price, but yes it is not on mtgox orderbook and thus you miss some liquidity.

The problem is not so much to place your order on mtgox than to know what happens of it (when and at which prices is is executed). AFAIK mtgox doens't provide order history, only trades history (all the trades that happened no matter the order). We can only know if the order is still open or not.
This is why it is difficult to place your order on mtgox orderbook. We could do some guess work (if your order is no longer open then it is executed), and that's maybe what I'll do but that must be properly done and tested, and I haven't had the time to do it yet.

Now I know you don't care, you just want it to work. Fair enough I understand, and you will know when hard limit orders like that are implemented.

Thank you for your comprehension and best regards,
Raphael

[unclescrooge]

I have updated the FAQ to explain that currently, your orders are not posted on mtgox orderbook no matter the route (but limit orders still work as limit order in that it will only be executed at your set price or better).

By the way, we added a Help page to explain all bitfinex features in an image. This great picture has been made by Myself, a big thank to him for that! https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/help

[ThaddeusB]

Myself, your replies don't actually make sense; or, at minimum, don't address what I actually was saying.  I suppose it is a language problem (you not knowing English very well).

unclescrooge, thanks for the explanation.  If/when you implement a way to route limit orders to MtGox, PM me if you can.  I likely won't be following this thread closely.

Thanks,
Thaddeus

[unclescrooge]

Promotion time:

Until the 23 january 2013, all orders routed on Bitfinex will have 0 fees. Yes, you heard me, 0 fees! Take advantage of it, now!

https://www.bitfinex.com

Raphael

[unclescrooge]

Hello everyone,

I would like to remind traders that they need to look at the daily interests rates when they margin trade. USD lenders are currently asking for very high rates, so make sure you do want to pay as high as over 1% per day before going long!

And happy trading to everyone
Raphael

[Ichthyo]

USD lenders are currently asking for very high rates, so make sure you do want to pay as high as over 1% per day before going long!

Thanks to all the new lending and borrowing features, we're now able to watch a lending market at work    fascinating....

For the BTC economy, you've built something new here!

[myself]

USD lenders are currently asking for very high rates, so make sure you do want to pay as high as over 1% per day before going long!

Thanks to all the new lending and borrowing features, we're now able to watch a lending market at work    fascinating....

For the BTC economy, you've built something new here!

iteration on lending is on the way and there are more things planed for the lending feature

[unclescrooge]

USD lenders are currently asking for very high rates, so make sure you do want to pay as high as over 1% per day before going long!

Thanks to all the new lending and borrowing features, we're now able to watch a lending market at work    fascinating....

For the BTC economy, you've built something new here!

Hey, that's indeed quite fascinating, seeing the rates evolve with the bitcoin price. I love it Thanks man!

Soon to come, variable interests rates. That will be of great interests for traders, because if interests goes up, that easily means their positions are profitable, while if the market goes against them, rates will go down adn they'll pay less in swap.