🔄🔄🔄🔄 ――――― ▲ MOIN ――――― It's not dead. It's resting ―――― 🔄🔄🔄🔄

[Nobitcoin]

How come I recently updated my block chain in the Moin wallet having not updated since 19/05 it gave me a stake of 1.378. When usually I receive around 270 a day. That means I'm out of pocket around 15000 Moon 

[Jookly]

How come I recently updated my block chain in the Moin wallet having not updated since 19/05 it gave me a stake of 1.378. When usually I receive around 270 a day. That means I'm out of pocket around 15000 Moon 

Because v1.1.0.0 updates the chain to POSv3 with 10% yearly interest and even rewards to block finders.  This change, and the specific value of 10% was discussed at length and voted on by the community.

[mObLOBScHAr]

thanks for pm.

with the new PosV3, is it better to hold more MOIN on a single address or split into multiple smaller ones?

[Jookly]

thanks for pm.

with the new PosV3, is it better to hold more MOIN on a single address or split into multiple smaller ones?

My understanding is that overtime it really should not matter what size your inputs are, you should still receive 10% annually.  Having an incredibly small input however could cause it to take a long time to stake.  I would try to keep inputs to at least a few hundred, and maybe preferably a few thousand MOIN per input to stake.

[KingCaper]

Sorry I missed the meeting guys, I too had a bit of trouble with altvr as they don't have a Linux client and the Windows one wouldn't work in my vm. I like the idea of having a scheduled meet-up where we can all kick around ideas though so we'll have to try again soon.

thanks for pm.

with the new PosV3, is it better to hold more MOIN on a single address or split into multiple smaller ones?

My understanding is that overtime it really should not matter what size your inputs are, you should still receive 10% annually.  Having an incredibly small input however could cause it to take a long time to stake.  I would try to keep inputs to at least a few hundred, and maybe preferably a few thousand MOIN per input to stake.

Actually this isn't quite how it works with PoS v3, the static rewards equate to roughly 10% of the supply (minus the coins we've burned) over the entire year.

Current usable supply       6424582.96 MOIN
Current block reward        1.30964224 MOIN
Approx blocks per year          492750 Blocks

Block reward * blocks per year = 645326.2138 MOIN (~ 10% of supply)
So roughly 645326 MOIN to be divided between active stakers over the next year (it'll be slightly more because the rewards will continue to increase relative to the supply).


Here's a quote from the Blackcoin subreddit which further explains the implications of PoS v3:

The latest commit on the POS v3 branch contains a change of the block reward. The coming block reward will not depend on coinage anymore. Instead there will be a constant reward of 1.5 BLK + fees.

A static block reward will have following implications:

  

• The staking reward will be time dependent. The more you time stake the higher the totall reward. The expected reward will be will proportional to the total balance and the time of staking.
• A static reward leads to a decreasing inflation rate and a decreasing reward rate. (The decline of the inflation and the reward rate is very slow for the chosen parameters. In a previous post I’ve derived a formula for the modification of the block reward as a function of the block height to keep the inflation and the reward rate stable. The correction term was very small such that it differs from the implementation of Rat4 only on the long-term.)
• At the current stage the block reward of 1.5 BLK results in an inflation rate of about 0.95%.
• The change is very good for those who support the blockchain through continuous staking and bad for exchanges with millions of coins who can at the current stage receive rewards of 10,000 BLK and above for 5 minutes of staking.
• The staking rate is at the moment at about 20%. Since in the coming protocol the nearly 1% inflation will be distributed only to the fraction of the shareholders the reward rate will be above 1%. At the current staking rate this means up to nearly 5% expected reward/interest rate for continuous staking! This is a large increase in the incentive of staking.
• It has to be considered now that the total reward depends on the number of UTXOs. For example: Someone with 1,000,000 BLK kept in only 1 UTXO will get not more than 4 blocks per day, since the coins have to mature nearly 9 hours. The wallet will by default split the staking transaction into 2 outputs if the UTXO is younger than 8 days and the number will increase over time. But it can take maybe weeks until it is close to the full potential. In general, the more UTXOs one has the more reward one can get since the relative weight consumption is small. On the other hand there is an upper limit which depends on the total balance and the converges to that limit is fast. So one doesn’t have to create unnecessary many UTXOs and overload the staking device. I’ve done the calculation and came up with a formula which tells how many UTXO one need to get arbitrarily close to the optimum (infinity many UTXOs case) given the balance weight. I can write more about that if anyone is interested.

The wallet automatically splits inputs over a certain value and combines others under a certain value. It's possible there's a slightly more optimal strategy, it's something we can research. Certainly anyone staking 24/7 should see healthy returns. Like mObLOBScHAr (thank you!), I ran a test with 5000 MOIN. By the end of the week I had a balance of 5020.838. To keep it simple we won't factor in the increase in rewards as the supply increases, but at that rate the balance would be roughly 6083 MOIN after 1 year, so 21% interest on the initial 5000. You won't get that from many banks.   Obviously it also depends on the network weight over time, but it should still give people a rough idea of what to expect.

Also, I pm'd Yuriy from C-Cex to make sure there wasn't a problem after seeing the trouble vella85 had been having withdrawing from C-Cex. He assured me everything was fine, but I've since had someone else mention it so I'll contact them again to ask them to look into it.

[mObLOBScHAr]

thanks for the detailed answer.

Good for active participants

[Jookly]

Thanks for the explanation kingcaper. 

And thanks for contacting c-cex as well.  I just tested a withdrawal again with same error result.

[vella85]

Thanks for contacting C-cex KingCaper about the issue with withdrawing MOIN. I did find that if you withdraw a small amount of coins you will receive them but as soon as I withdraw anything over 100 coins it fails to send.

I wish I could of attended the meeting but because of the timezone I was asleep  Is there anyway they can be recorded?

[scaryvirus]

I can confirm there are no issues with transferring from cryptopia to my 1.1.0.0 wallet in case anyone was wondering.

[Jookly]

I can confirm there are no issues with transferring from cryptopia to my 1.1.0.0 wallet in case anyone was wondering.

yeah the wallets on cryptopia and livecoin seem to be working fine.

[vella85]

I can confirm there are no issues with transferring from cryptopia to my 1.1.0.0 wallet in case anyone was wondering.

Thanks for letting us know and is that a large amount of coins say over 100 coins? Because from what C-cex said to me was that it was the MOIN wallet so if all is fine with Cryptopia then it must be C-cex.

[scaryvirus]

I can confirm there are no issues with transferring from cryptopia to my 1.1.0.0 wallet in case anyone was wondering.

Thanks for letting us know and is that a large amount of coins say over 100 coins? Because from what C-cex said to me was that it was the MOIN wallet so if all is fine with Cryptopia then it must be C-cex.

A lot more than 100. Hope it helps.

[scaryvirus]

This is my first venture into stake coins so if someone has time maybe they can answer a few questions:

1. I just mined 1.309 moin, all good. before it said my weight was my # of coins and estimate for next reward is 15 minutes. now my weight is 0 and expected time to earn reward is ~500 days. Why is it 0? Why so long? (options are minimum stake interval = 0, reserve = 0)

2. What do "Minimum ring size" = 3 and "Maximum Ring size" = 200 and "Automatically select ring size" = false stand for. Reminds me of ring signatures in cryptonote but I'm guessing not?

Thanks ahead of time!


---

Update, just checked, looks like I got 2 more block rewards even though the estimate said 500+ days and weight said zero and everything said available for spending so appeared not staking, which is I think not supposed to happen? Screen shot: https://i.imgur.com/ctvP4yB.png

[Jookly]

This is my first venture into stake coins so if someone has time maybe they can answer a few questions:

1. I just mined 1.309 moin, all good. before it said my weight was my # of coins and estimate for next reward is 15 minutes. now my weight is 0 and expected time to earn reward is ~500 days. Why is it 0? Why so long? (options are minimum stake interval = 0, reserve = 0)

2. What do "Minimum ring size" = 3 and "Maximum Ring size" = 200 and "Automatically select ring size" = false stand for. Reminds me of ring signatures in cryptonote but I'm guessing not?

Thanks ahead of time!


---

Update, just checked, looks like I got 2 more block rewards even though the estimate said 500+ days and weight said zero and everything said available for spending so appeared not staking, which is I think not supposed to happen? Screen shot: https://i.imgur.com/ctvP4yB.png

I am afraid of being wrong on this but I think that those "days to stake" measurements simply cannot be trusted.  What probably happened is you got the first stake and the wallet split your original input in two, so now you have two inputs of similar size that are gaining coinage at a similar rate.  Both those inputs staked around the same time so that is why your second two stakes are close together in time.  That measurement is on just about every POS coin and it is inaccurate on every one I have tried out.   One thing that I adjusted on my own wallet is you can set the minimum amount of time between stakes.  Setting that value to something like a few minutes will prevent your inputs from all maturing and staking so close to each other.  It seemed to cut down on orphans for me.

I do not know the answer to the maximum ring size.  Maybe KingCaper can weigh in on that and correct me on my days to stake comment if it is inaccurate as well.

[vella85]

I can confirm there are no issues with transferring from cryptopia to my 1.1.0.0 wallet in case anyone was wondering.

Thanks for letting us know and is that a large amount of coins say over 100 coins? Because from what C-cex said to me was that it was the MOIN wallet so if all is fine with Cryptopia then it must be C-cex.

A lot more than 100. Hope it helps.

Okay thanks and yes it does help.

The MOIN wallet on the C-cex exchange is now in maintenance so hopefully once it's back up and going again fixes the issues with withdrawing MOIN. 

[Jookly]

Okay thanks and yes it does help.

The MOIN wallet on the C-cex exchange is now in maintenance so hopefully once it's back up and going again fixes the issues with withdrawing MOIN. 

cool that is actually encouraging to me because as you said it might mean they are in the process of updating or fixing it.

[scaryvirus]

The suggestion to set 180 sec delay between succeful stakes worked and it's working well.

Just as Bytecoin, Monero, Bulberry & co. form the CryptoNote family, we consider Shadow, MOIN, OKCash & co. to be part of the Satoshi/CryptoNote/PoS-hybrid family (we may need a catchier name), and hope we can contribute to the collective strength of this group of projects.

I was just excited about superblocks before, but I just realized that this coin is in fact trying to use cryptonote. That's very cool. This was very hard to see in the announcement. People either are or will be desperate for anonymity. I'm curious what the stances of coin will be in future:

1. will transactions be hidden by default to hide known actors, something often considered a necessity.

2. will amount transmitted be hidden like with RingCT on Monero?

3. will the use of Moin be hidden from ISP like with i2p

4. will there be instant send feature? I'm not sure if this requires a multi-tier system of stakers. Vcash has a nice benefit of being quite secure with a single transaction.

5. how will it address nothing at stake issue? Ethereum's casper implementation comes to mind.

6. how will scalability be achieved to VISA levels? projects like vcash, bitshares, nxt 2 stand out with some solutions to this, and I guess there's always the centralized lightning network type of solution.

7. you mentioned shadowcash, I'm guessing this is known now: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/45in03/proof_of_deanonymization_shadowcash_does_not/ . Any ideas about comments here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1140006.msg12020037#msg12020037 and how to mitigate them?

Thank you for your hard work!!!

I guess these are the questions many groups are asking themselves about their own coins and what's worth it.

[vella85]

Any news on when the MOIN wallet on C-cex will be ready? as it's still in maintenance and I really want to withdraw my coins so I can stake them.

[Jookly]

The suggestion to set 180 sec delay between succeful stakes worked and it's working well.

Just as Bytecoin, Monero, Bulberry & co. form the CryptoNote family, we consider Shadow, MOIN, OKCash & co. to be part of the Satoshi/CryptoNote/PoS-hybrid family (we may need a catchier name), and hope we can contribute to the collective strength of this group of projects.

I was just excited about superblocks before, but I just realized that this coin is in fact trying to use cryptonote. That's very cool. This was very hard to see in the announcement. People either are or will be desperate for anonymity. I'm curious what the stances of coin will be in future:

1. will transactions be hidden by default to hide known actors, something often considered a necessity.

2. will amount transmitted be hidden like with RingCT on Monero?

3. will the use of Moin be hidden from ISP like with i2p

4. will there be instant send feature? I'm not sure if this requires a multi-tier system of stakers. Vcash has a nice benefit of being quite secure with a single transaction.

5. how will it address nothing at stake issue? Ethereum's casper implementation comes to mind.

6. how will scalability be achieved to VISA levels? projects like vcash, bitshares, nxt 2 stand out with some solutions to this, and I guess there's always the centralized lightning network type of solution.

7. you mentioned shadowcash, I'm guessing this is known now: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/45in03/proof_of_deanonymization_shadowcash_does_not/ . Any ideas about comments here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1140006.msg12020037#msg12020037 and how to mitigate them?

Thank you for your hard work!!!

I guess these are the questions many groups are asking themselves about their own coins and what's worth it.

These are great questions!  I think we need KingCaper to weigh in on them.  I am not sure of the answers myself.  I do know that MOIN has some sort of anonymity feature it inherited from Shadow.  If you look in the wallet on the send tab you will notice a button that says by defualy "MOIN to MOIN".  There are a few options under that showing that "MOINX" is an option to convert from and to "MOIN".  Although I cannot speak from a technical standpoint on this I can say that it is necessary to convert MOIN to MOINX in order to use the feature inherited from Shadow.

Any news on when the MOIN wallet on C-cex will be ready? as it's still in maintenance and I really want to withdraw my coins so I can stake them.

I feel the same!  What is taking them so long?

[vella85]

The MOIN wallet is now out of maintenance on C-cex exchange however I'm still having the same issues withdrawing my MOIN coins. I thought it would of been fixed since the wallet went into maintenance but it's not