Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[coinlocket$]

I hope it doesn't turn out that way, the 2023 Ducati will probably be even faster than the Yamaha and Honda models, but I hope that KTM and Aprilia will be at least as fast or faster than the 2023 Ducati models.

I don't trust Aprilia at all.
I think it will be a Ducati dominance with some KTM sometimes at the top.

[1715111741]

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[Koal-84]

It is natural that the manufacturers are starting to be confident in what they have developed so far, because the three manufacturers are really working very well and really want to compete with each other in the 2024 competition. So their confidence in what they have done so far will be greater and more complete for their riders to use and for now I am starting to look forward to seeing the pre-season tests at Sepang and also at several other circuits.

Ducati has worked very hard in recent years and is leading the way in aerodynamics and engine management, so the other teams have more work to do to catch up. But it's a good thing, that's why there are the consession points, otherwise it would probably be impossible.

I don't trust Aprilia at all.
I think it will be a Ducati dominance with some KTM sometimes at the top.

Aprilia has worked very well over the last two years and also has two good riders in the works team, so a podium or victory or two should be possible.

[Davian144]

Ducati has worked very hard in recent years and is leading the way in aerodynamics and engine management, so the other teams have more work to do to catch up. But it's a good thing, that's why there are the consession points, otherwise it would probably be impossible.

The concessions for next season provided by Dorna will only apply to Asian manufacturers such as Honda and Yamaha. Meanwhile, other European manufacturers are not given any, so what makes it even more difficult next season is that manufacturers such as Aprilia and KTM both have no concessions. However, both of them are still competitive enough to fight Ducati next season with a level of success that may not be too great, because Ducati not only has a powerful engine, but also has quite talented riders.

[emrecemsan]

It doesn't look like we will see big changes in driver positions in Formula 1 before 2024 season. I mean even Sargeant is said to be keeping his seat at Williams.    This season was like he was continuing from where Latifi left.    Williams have a new GOAT now!

Joking aside the damage he gave to the car and the cost of it was really heavy for Williams. Albon had a much better season than him. Albon is of course a more talented driver than him but Sargeant is also not a bad driver normally. I don't know maybe he couldn't adapt to Formula 1 cars quickly. If he doesn't improve next season then I don't feel like he will be able to keep his seat any longer.

[coinlocket$]

Aprilia has worked very well over the last two years and also has two good riders in the works team, so a podium or victory or two should be possible.

Oh yeah, a win can happen for sure.
I was thinking about racing for the title, I think they will never able to fight Ducati in long run.

[Davian144]

Aprilia has worked very well over the last two years and also has two good riders in the works team, so a podium or victory or two should be possible.

Oh yeah, a win can happen for sure.
I was thinking about racing for the title, I think they will never able to fight Ducati in long run.

Aprilia itself is actually quite confident about the motorbike package they will use next season, but getting the title will clearly be very difficult for them because there are still too many Ducatis and Aprilia's development is still not on par with that of Ducati so it could be quite possible if Aprilia still have not been able to fight for the title, except only for wins in a few series. Meanwhile, Ducati can still challenge for the title next season with several of their flagship riders.

[coinlocket$]

there are still too many Ducatis and Aprilia's development is still not on par with that of Ducati

My personal prediction is that the ducats of 2023 will end ahead of the Aprilia of 2024 in the final leaderboard.

[Spack17]

It doesn't look like we will see big changes in driver positions in Formula 1 before 2024 season. I mean even Sargeant is said to be keeping his seat at Williams.    This season was like he was continuing from where Latifi left.    Williams have a new GOAT now!

Joking aside the damage he gave to the car and the cost of it was really heavy for Williams. Albon had a much better season than him. Albon is of course a more talented driver than him but Sargeant is also not a bad driver normally. I don't know maybe he couldn't adapt to Formula 1 cars quickly. If he doesn't improve next season then I don't feel like he will be able to keep his seat any longer.

I also think the same as you. There were rumours about Perez to be replaced by Ricciardo like everywhere. But now it looks like Red Bull have made up their mind about continuing with Verstappen and Perez next season as well. After making a lot of mistakes - and really unbelievable ones also - I thought Perez's seat would be at risk. But he has a second chance seemingly. He had better use it very well too. Because I don't think there would be another chance to be given to him.

Helmut Marko can be really adamant on such topics. Perez looked really assertive by making a statement like he would be competitive for the championship next time. But I don't think so honestly. 

[Koal-84]

The concessions for next season provided by Dorna will only apply to Asian manufacturers such as Honda and Yamaha. Meanwhile, other European manufacturers are not given any, so what makes it even more difficult next season is that manufacturers such as Aprilia and KTM both have no concessions. However, both of them are still competitive enough to fight Ducati next season with a level of success that may not be too great, because Ducati not only has a powerful engine, but also has quite talented riders.

That's not quite true, next season there will be a total of four groups, Group A, B, C and Group D.

Ducati is in Group A, KTM and Aprilia in Group C and the Japanese manufacturers in Group D.

Group A

A manufacturer in rank A will have to have scored at least 85% of possible maximum constructors' points to be classed as such, and will then have 170 test tyres, private testing with test riders only at only three GP circuits, no wildcards, a maximum of eight engines per year and a freeze on development as well as only one aero update per year.

Group B and C

For a B rank, the points percentage must be less than 85% but greater than 60%, while for C it must be less than 60% and greater than 35%. For D rank, it's less than 35%.


B and C-ranked marques will be subject to the same testing limits, engine number, development freeze and aero updates as A rank, but can have three and six wildcards respectively.

They will also have 190 and 220 test tyres.

Group D

For D-ranked manufacturers, they will be permitted to 260 test tyres, testing at any GP circuit, six wildcards, testing with race riders and a maximum of 10 engines which can be freely developed and two aero updates per year.

If a manufacturer changes rank during the second window mentioned above, the concessions will be adjusted accordingly to reflect this.

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/motogp-confirms-concession-plans-for-the-2024-season/10552831/

[FanEagle]

Red Bull has decided to push Perez to the end of the contract, he will be racing until 2026 apparently, or at least that is the decision they have taken this season, don't know if they will continue to do that next season as well, but for 2024 he stays.

It is bot ha great news but also a terrible news for Daniel Ricciardo as well, because it's terrible since he will not be going to Red Bull and going there would have been better for him, and yet it also means that he will not be on Max's shadow, and he doesn't have pressure on him and he got used to his car at AT for a while, so he could do very well this season. The fact is, if he does better than his teammate, he will be fine there, he is getting older anyway, so it would be fine to have a few more decent seasons, that's it.

[coinlocket$]

Red Bull has decided to push Perez to the end of the contract, he will be racing until 2026 apparently, or at least that is the decision they have taken this season, don't know if they will continue to do that next season as well, but for 2024 he stays.

It is bot ha great news but also a terrible news for Daniel Ricciardo as well, because it's terrible since he will not be going to Red Bull and going there would have been better for him, and yet it also means that he will not be on Max's shadow, and he doesn't have pressure on him and he got used to his car at AT for a while, so he could do very well this season. The fact is, if he does better than his teammate, he will be fine there, he is getting older anyway, so it would be fine to have a few more decent seasons, that's it.

I think that the only possible way for him to stay until 2026 is to have RBR dominate for the other 2 years.

If someone will catch them, he will be benched.

[alegotardo]

Red Bull has decided to push Perez to the end of the contract, he will be racing until 2026 apparently, or at least that is the decision they have taken this season, don't know if they will continue to do that next season as well, but for 2024 he stays.

It is bot ha great news but also a terrible news for Daniel Ricciardo as well, because it's terrible since he will not be going to Red Bull and going there would have been better for him, and yet it also means that he will not be on Max's shadow, and he doesn't have pressure on him and he got used to his car at AT for a while, so he could do very well this season. The fact is, if he does better than his teammate, he will be fine there, he is getting older anyway, so it would be fine to have a few more decent seasons, that's it.

This 2023 season saw an unexpected return in Daniel Ricciardo.... after he left McLaren at the end of 2022, the Australian seemed destined to spend the year as a reserve, but gained an opportunity at AlphaTauri after the team replaced Nyck de Vries on account of the poor results in the first half of the championship.

The problem is that Sergio Pérez's poor performance at Red Bull, the most powerful team in the group, meant that Ricciardo's name was also speculated about a possible promotion for 2024 or even 2025, even though the Mexican is still under contract and honestly I believed that this would happen, I still don't understand why they actually decided to go with Perez.

Anyway, this must be an "ultimatum" for Sergio Pérez and I hope Ricciardo doesn't lose hope of racing for Red Bull again.

[Juggy777]

Red Bull has decided to push Perez to the end of the contract, he will be racing until 2026 apparently, or at least that is the decision they have taken this season, don't know if they will continue to do that next season as well, but for 2024 he stays.

It is bot ha great news but also a terrible news for Daniel Ricciardo as well, because it's terrible since he will not be going to Red Bull and going there would have been better for him, and yet it also means that he will not be on Max's shadow, and he doesn't have pressure on him and he got used to his car at AT for a while, so he could do very well this season. The fact is, if he does better than his teammate, he will be fine there, he is getting older anyway, so it would be fine to have a few more decent seasons, that's it.

I think that the only possible way for him to stay until 2026 is to have RBR dominate for the other 2 years.

If someone will catch them, he will be benched.

@coinlocket$ it makes sense that they’re retaining him for now because his presence will ensure that Max will always know he has to step up or he’ll be beaten by him. Furthermore I also liked the dynamics between these two last season and I feel that Red Bull doesn’t want to change the winning combination so it’ll be interesting to see if they both can continue to dominate like they did in the last season.

[Koal-84]

My personal prediction is that the ducats of 2023 will end ahead of the Aprilia of 2024 in the final leaderboard.

I also assume that the 2023 Ducatis will probably be just as fast as the 2024 models from KTM and Aprilia, the 2023 models also have the advantage that they already have available data from the track set-up, so they clearly have an advantage, but I hope KTM and Aprilia are currently doing a good job and can keep the 2023 Ducatis mostly behind them, but that won't be easy.

[swogerino]

My personal prediction is that the ducats of 2023 will end ahead of the Aprilia of 2024 in the final leaderboard.

I also assume that the 2023 Ducatis will probably be just as fast as the 2024 models from KTM and Aprilia, the 2023 models also have the advantage that they already have available data from the track set-up, so they clearly have an advantage, but I hope KTM and Aprilia are currently doing a good job and can keep the 2023 Ducatis mostly behind them, but that won't be easy.

That should be the case most likely as Aprilia has always been a weak bike in the premier class of MotoGp something I have never understood well as they make some pretty awesome bikes in the lower classes of 125 and 250 cc.Ducati on the other side has been a good bike in the premier class and that is why I also think that Aprilia will be behind even against a 2023 Ducati in this upcoming 2024 MotoGp season.

[Velvet78]

Red Bull has decided to push Perez to the end of the contract, he will be racing until 2026 apparently, or at least that is the decision they have taken this season, don't know if they will continue to do that next season as well, but for 2024 he stays.

It is bot ha great news but also a terrible news for Daniel Ricciardo as well, because it's terrible since he will not be going to Red Bull and going there would have been better for him, and yet it also means that he will not be on Max's shadow, and he doesn't have pressure on him and he got used to his car at AT for a while, so he could do very well this season. The fact is, if he does better than his teammate, he will be fine there, he is getting older anyway, so it would be fine to have a few more decent seasons, that's it.

It doesn't make big difference whether Red Bull have Sergio Perez or another driver at the moment honestly. Because they have a beast like Verstappen who can win nearly all of the races in a calendar. This is just an insane domination. Verstappen literally carried the team to the constructors title very easily by himself.

Even if Perez didn't collect any points in the whole season Red Bull were going to become the champions anyway.    I expect pretty much the same performance from Verstappen next season as well.

[coinlocket$]

Side news.

Alonso asked to Max Verstappen to run with him the 24 hours of LeMans.

I don't think it will be next year, even if the 2 races should not overlap.

[Koal-84]

Side news.

Alonso asked to Max Verstappen to run with him the 24 hours of LeMans.

I don't think it will be next year, even if the 2 races should not overlap.

Why not? I think that would be a really good duo and with a proper team behind them and a good third driver, for example Raikkonen, that would even be a team with very good chances of winning. Why not if the Formula 1 calendar allows it?

[coinlocket$]

Why not? I think that would be a really good duo and with a proper team behind them and a good third driver, for example Raikkonen, that would even be a team with very good chances of winning. Why not if the Formula 1 calendar allows it?

Considering an accident can happen in a race I doubt RBR is okay with paying 40mil yearly to Max and taking the risk with his high salary.

[Davian144]

My personal prediction is that the ducats of 2023 will end ahead of the Aprilia of 2024 in the final leaderboard.

Your prediction might be correct because Aprilia has also been moving frequently in development and is no longer standing still like Asian manufacturers. So it could be quite possible for Aprilia to again create fiercer competition next season, but on the one hand I also see that KTM can sometimes be an obstacle for other manufacturers like last season.

That's not quite true, next season there will be a total of four groups, Group A, B, C and Group D.

Ducati is in Group A, KTM and Aprilia in Group C and the Japanese manufacturers in Group D.

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/motogp-confirms-concession-plans-for-the-2024-season/10552831/

I haven't had time to read the news in the past few days so I still haven't separated all the manufacturers with their respective rankings based on their respective performance percentages. And I think what you said through the news is also more appropriate to use as a basic reference in making predictions for next season, because next season perhaps all manufacturers will make more changes in official test sessions.