Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[FanEagle]

I dont think we are gonna see rain in the track, or even in the race weekend, the percetage of possibilities its low.

I think Sebastian Vettel its gonna see the race for sure, his record its in danger, but knowing him i know he its gonna be happy to see someone broken it. What do you think?

It looks like Max will be able to break the record given the performance he put in, and I'm pretty sure he'll be able to get a P1 even if the weather turns rainy. Moreover, Vettel does not feel that Max is a threat to his record and instead he really respects Max because what he did to reach his current position was not easy and really deserves appreciation.
And not only that record, Red Bull will also break the record in "biggest points lead ever in the world championship" if Mercedes has a poor performance in this race.

We are talking about a guy who could have raced for at least another 5 years if he wanted to (look at Alonso) and still retired. Vettel is obviously not caring about any of that, he was the last of engineer drivers that came long line and one of the most known ones was Niki Lauda. I think it's important to realize that Vettel gave up himself, he wasn't forced or had to or anything like that, he gave it all up himself and that's the important thing.

I think he will not care about Max breaking his record at all, I mean he will be happy of course but I meant it like he will not be upset, dude doesn't care anymore obviously which is why he retired. I wish we could have seen him with a better car a few more seasons before he retired.

[1715206061]

1715206061

[koang]

it's still 50/50 for Marquez to be able to join Pramac Racing, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he does join Pramac Racing seeing that he is quite disappointed with Honda not providing significant improvements to their bikes. if Honda didn't react well to what Marquez asked, it was certain that he would leave Honda and that was the beginning of Honda's downfall because they didn't have a good rider anymore.

Yep. Honda will lose a lot if Marquez leaves.
The only thing that can keep Marquez at Honda is the emergence of a revolutionary project undertaken by Honda.
All possibilities can happen, but I think Marquez will stay at Honda.

[retreat]

I can't say Verstappen dominated FP2 honestly. Because Norris managed to take the first place from him. But the time gap was a really slight one of course.

The qualifying session is the important one from now on. Practice sessions can give us some opinion but many things change in qualifying. But one thing doesn't change most of the time - Verstappen's dominance.    We will see him taking pole position most probably. But it is still lovely to see the rise in McLaren's performance. Norris and Piastri have done a pretty good job so far. I expect both of them to shine in this qualifying session as well. I hope to see them preferring a better strategy this time. Because the last one in Spa didn't work.

That's right, the changes from FP1 and FP2 are quite significant, where it seems that teams are really taking advantage of data to be able to make their teams more competitive than before. What's most interesting is how Tsunoda and Norris really made a change from their previous practice, hopefully their performance can stay like that to balance the dominance of RBR.

[coinlocket$]

We got rain on FP3 but the result is the same

 2023 F1 Dutch Grand Prix - Free Practice Results (3)
Pos    Driver    Nat.   Team    Time
1   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m21.631s
2   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m22.010s
3   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Bull Racing   1m22.631s
4   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m22.634s
5   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m22.723s
6   Alex Albon   THA   Williams Racing   1m22.750s
7   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m22.892s
8   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   1m22.965s
9   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m23.093s
10   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m23.158s
11   Pierre Gasly   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m23.210s
12   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m23.438s
13   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri    1m23.544s
14   Logan Sargeant   USA   Williams Racing   1m23.570s
15   Nico Hulkenberg   GER   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m23.640s
16   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m23.806s
17   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m24.058s
18   Liam Lawson   NZL   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m26.343s
19   Zhou Guanyu   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   1m28.482s
20   Kevin Magnussen   DEN   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   No Time Set

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1034076/1/f1-dutch-grand-prix-2023-final-practice-results

[Captain Corporate]

Couple things that took my interest from this Saturday run. First of all, Mclaren improved a lot just like we all know, but apparently not on the rain, they are amazing when it comes to slicks and a sunny weather but when its raining, they are not good at all. However, when the sun was out and the track dried up, they became so good that at one point people thought Lando could even take over Max, which obviously Max being Max didn't let him, but Lando will be second place. Secondly, Williams seems to be improving a lot as well, Albon finished fourth, been doing fine, I think they have a chance for some serious points this race as well if nothing happens to their cars. The last thing is Hamilton being out in Q2, whereas Russell being third place, that is not just "Mercedes doesn't have a good car" situation, if your teammate is third, then you shouldn't be 13th place.

[swogerino]

Couple things that took my interest from this Saturday run. First of all, Mclaren improved a lot just like we all know, but apparently not on the rain, they are amazing when it comes to slicks and a sunny weather but when its raining, they are not good at all. However, when the sun was out and the track dried up, they became so good that at one point people thought Lando could even take over Max, which obviously Max being Max didn't let him, but Lando will be second place. Secondly, Williams seems to be improving a lot as well, Albon finished fourth, been doing fine, I think they have a chance for some serious points this race as well if nothing happens to their cars. The last thing is Hamilton being out in Q2, whereas Russell being third place, that is not just "Mercedes doesn't have a good car" situation, if your teammate is third, then you shouldn't be 13th place.

Regarding Mercedes yesterday in qualifying it was the chaotic weather conditions that showed us quite a lot of crashes and as such we cannot see a big difference between the two drivers in Mercedes team,it was only chaotic qualifying session.McLaren has improved a lot and yesterday they did quite well,I had forgotten that they are the second team now in the grid and that Lando has real chances of winning the first race in his career if he manages to keep close to Max and if weather conditions permit this,that Max doesn't create a huge gap like he will most likely will do in a dry race.I think that finally we will not see a boring race in here today.

[coinlocket$]

Another win for Max, this time was not so easy because of the chaos with the weather.

9th win in a row, he will going to beat the all time record.

If I can recall it is 11 wins.

[FanEagle]

Ricciardio broke his wrist because of the crash, and I think it is going to be something big as well, if I am not wrong Albon was the last one that did that and it is going to be pretty similar. You have to understand these guys get a lot of G during crashes and they are mainly holding the wheel (which isn't even wheel shaped lol) during these crashes, and when it happens that means we see them crack their wrist bones due to sudden movement of it during crashes.

That is still an issue, even if their whole body is protected better than anyone else, we have the wheel turning too quickly during crashes that crack the wrist. Instead of Daniel Ricciardo we are going to see Liam Lawson racing this weekend, lets see how he does, I expect a lot from him.

[laurenB7742]

-snip-
You have to understand these guys get a lot of G during crashes and they are mainly holding the wheel (which isn't even wheel shaped lol) during these crashes, and when it happens that means we see them crack their wrist bones due to sudden movement of it during crashes.

It is actually not very hard to understand why they break their wrist so much. They are literally controlling the car with something that has almost like millions of buttons. I also know very well that the racers train their reflexes a lot. But it is still very hard to actually even think when the car is crashing at more than 150 km/h. Of course, the steering wheel actually do not look like a wheel. And I don’t think it ever will. Especially when they are trying to make the car as light as possible.

Couple things that took my interest from this Saturday run. First of all, Mclaren improved a lot just like we all know, but apparently not on the rain, they are amazing when it comes to slicks and a sunny weather but when its raining, they are not good at all. However, when the sun was out and the track dried up, they became so good that at one point people thought Lando could even take over Max, which obviously Max being Max didn't let him, but Lando will be second place. Secondly, Williams seems to be improving a lot as well, Albon finished fourth, been doing fine, I think they have a chance for some serious points this race as well if nothing happens to their cars. The last thing is Hamilton being out in Q2, whereas Russell being third place, that is not just "Mercedes doesn't have a good car" situation, if your teammate is third, then you shouldn't be 13th place.

Regarding Mercedes yesterday in qualifying it was the chaotic weather conditions that showed us quite a lot of crashes and as such we cannot see a big difference between the two drivers in Mercedes team,it was only chaotic qualifying session.McLaren has improved a lot and yesterday they did quite well,I had forgotten that they are the second team now in the grid and that Lando has real chances of winning the first race in his career if he manages to keep close to Max and if weather conditions permit this,that Max doesn't create a huge gap like he will most likely will do in a dry race.I think that finally we will not see a boring race in here today.

The weather conditions can actually cause a lot of problems like we just saw. The cars are moving so fast and it is already a big risk. And on top of that, when the cracks do not have traction with the tire, or have less traction, it is a recipe for disaster and that’s exactly what we saw happening. I also have to say that McLaren did well. The improvement is quite visible from them.

[LTU_btc]

If you ever will feel useless, remember that F1 have full wet tyres... It already looked that fun things will begin, but then they stopped race immediately. There was some chaos in race, but after all, final outcome is same like always - Verstappen win. Feel sorry for Perez - something always should go wrong for him. He goes to pits for wet tyres ands then session get red flagged. It's good for him that he got position back before restart. And then breaking speed limits in pit lane.
Alonso again showed masterclass, especially driving on wet track.

[coinlocket$]

If you ever will feel useless, remember that F1 have full wet tyres... It already looked that fun things will begin, but then they stopped race immediately. There was some chaos in race, but after all, final outcome is same like always - Verstappen win. Feel sorry for Perez - something always should go wrong for him. He goes to pits for wet tyres ands then session get red flagged. It's good for him that he got position back before restart. And then breaking speed limits in pit lane.
Alonso again showed masterclass, especially driving on wet track.

The problem with the fully wet tires is not the tires themself but the spray of water caused by the high speed.
The tires work greatly with high water on the track.

F1 is working on a solution, on a fender to add when the rain its.

Don't ask me how they gonna doing it.

[dothebeats]

Ricciardio broke his wrist because of the crash, and I think it is going to be something big as well, if I am not wrong Albon was the last one that did that and it is going to be pretty similar. You have to understand these guys get a lot of G during crashes and they are mainly holding the wheel (which isn't even wheel shaped lol) during these crashes, and when it happens that means we see them crack their wrist bones due to sudden movement of it during crashes.

It's like getting a whiplash but instead targeted on your wrist because of the sudden, uncontrollable.movement of the steering wheel. The design of F1's steering wheel is actually a lot safer as it actually is easier to remove your hands from it should a crash happens unlike in traditional cars. Also, they can pull the steering wheel if needed though sometimes it's not the best course of action.

Hopefully Ricciardo recovers pretty fast. That man is silently creeping up the ladder albeit being placed in a relatively weaker team this season.

[LTU_btc]

The problem with the fully wet tires is not the tires themself but the spray of water caused by the high speed.
The tires work greatly with high water on the track.

F1 is working on a solution, on a fender to add when the rain its.

Don't ask me how they gonna doing it.

I mean they are taking these tyres to tracks all around the world, but it barely get used even if there is rain, this is what I mean useless. Probably itworks great, though, it wouldn't protect from aquaplaning if there is literally river on the track.
Making tyres that don't spray water - I'm wondering how they are going to make something what goes against physics.

[retreat]

Another win for Max, this time was not so easy because of the chaos with the weather.

9th win in a row, he will going to beat the all time record.

If I can recall it is 11 wins.

It was not easy for Max to be able to win this race, I really admire how he and his team managed the strategy to be able to win this race, good job to Max. And as for Perez I'm pretty sorry to see him because how he really struggled to be able to prove that he deserves to be a champion, but the reality is that Alonso with his experience and Gasly with his luck didn't let him get on the podium. But I really enjoyed this race, how the rain which made the race even more chaotic was a challenge and made this race very fun to watch.

[Pulsar77]

Indeed it wasn't one of the easiest races for Verstappen due to changeable weather conditions. But every time he still stayed focused and managed to open a decent time gap with his closest opponent. This was another deserved win for him. Perez is at fault for his being out of podium I'm afraid. Because he got a 5-second penalty for a really simple reason. It was a simple mistake of him that he was speeding in pit lane. When you do this there is no way you are getting out of this without a time penalty. 

The driver of the day was voted as Alonso but I think Gasly deserved more. Because he started the race from 12th place and finished on podium. The rivalry between him and Sainz was really lovely to watch. 

[püsür]

Another win for Max, this time was not so easy because of the chaos with the weather.

9th win in a row, he will going to beat the all time record.

If I can recall it is 11 wins.

It was not easy for Max to be able to win this race, I really admire how he and his team managed the strategy to be able to win this race, good job to Max. And as for Perez I'm pretty sorry to see him because how he really struggled to be able to prove that he deserves to be a champion, but the reality is that Alonso with his experience and Gasly with his luck didn't let him get on the podium. But I really enjoyed this race, how the rain which made the race even more chaotic was a challenge and made this race very fun to watch.

It doesn't make sense to attribute such a big difference between teammates to pilotage and nobody talks about this situation. It's like their performance on the straight is not the same, let alone the apex. Perez's lap times are not stable. the performance of the car seems to fluctuate. Red bull is very successful, they will go down in history, but the failure of other teams is not on the agenda. Only the alpine team is self-critical. We haven't seen a fight for first place this year. I've never seen such an unexciting season before. Unfortunately, it was a race with an obvious ending. Just like the others. The worst thing is, we know what will happen in the next races. Even my wife - who doesn't watch the races - is asking questions like "how many seconds ahead is verstappen?". Fia needs to find an urgent solution to this. Even if he makes a reverse grid, nothing will change. Verstappen is so in tune with the car that if there were 50 cars and he started the race in the 50th place, he would still finish 1st. It has become really boring.

[Volgastallion]

It was not easy for Max to be able to win this race, I really admire how he and his team managed the strategy to be able to win this race, good job to Max. And as for Perez I'm pretty sorry to see him because how he really struggled to be able to prove that he deserves to be a champion, but the reality is that Alonso with his experience and Gasly with his luck didn't let him get on the podium. But I really enjoyed this race, how the rain which made the race even more chaotic was a challenge and made this race very fun to watch.

It doesn't make sense to attribute such a big difference between teammates to pilotage and nobody talks about this situation. It's like their performance on the straight is not the same, let alone the apex. Perez's lap times are not stable. the performance of the car seems to fluctuate. Red bull is very successful, they will go down in history, but the failure of other teams is not on the agenda. Only the alpine team is self-critical. We haven't seen a fight for first place this year. I've never seen such an unexciting season before. Unfortunately, it was a race with an obvious ending. Just like the others. The worst thing is, we know what will happen in the next races. Even my wife - who doesn't watch the races - is asking questions like "how many seconds ahead is verstappen?". Fia needs to find an urgent solution to this. Even if he makes a reverse grid, nothing will change. Verstappen is so in tune with the car that if there were 50 cars and he started the race in the 50th place, he would still finish 1st. It has become really boring.
[/quote]

Its a fucking joke and nobody talks about that in the media, Max Verstappen its better driver tha Perez? YES, but he cant have that diference in times with """"the same car"""" this clearly show its not the same car, yesterday we see how Verstappen cut 2.5s in only ONE lap after putting the same inters of Perez.... no sense.

Another prove of this? Everyone can fight with Perez car in the midfield, but nobody can be near Max Verstappen car.....

[swogerino]

Of course Verstappen get the parts before Perez,they upgrade Max car first and that is why in certain races we can see a huge difference in drivers with the same car.Did it not happen with Norris and Piastri at McLaren where Norris got the parts first and was racing at a much better pace than Piastri by getting a podium.This though does in no way removes the fact that Perez for me is the most mediocre driver I have ever seen so far in F1,he still has a Redbull and in the times of Vettel and Vebber and in early times of Verstappen together with Ricciardo we have seen quite some crashes between the team mates,something clearly not happening with Perez forcing my view on him as a real mediocre driver.

[Davian144]

it's still 50/50 for Marquez to be able to join Pramac Racing, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he does join Pramac Racing seeing that he is quite disappointed with Honda not providing significant improvements to their bikes. if Honda didn't react well to what Marquez asked, it was certain that he would leave Honda and that was the beginning of Honda's downfall because they didn't have a good rider anymore.

Pramac Racing is a satellite team and very different from regular teams like Honda, so Pramac Racing must also have a bigger budget if they want to redeem Marquez from Honda. This is the first consideration that Pramac Racing has to think about because it can really hurt their budget in buying engines at Ducati in every season. Besides that, if you want to see the destruction of Honda, actually Honda has been destroyed since Marquez suffered an injury in 2020 because since then every change made by Honda has not produced any results.

And one more thing that Honda made a mistake was by removing Dani Pedrosa from their own team so that the development of Honda's own engine became unstable. This can be seen when KTM took Dani Pedrosa and put him in the field of motorbike development and test riders for KTM so that KTM could experience such significant changes in the motorbikes they created. In the past, KTM was never competitive, but now KTM can compete with other big manufacturers such as Ducati and Aprilia through their flagship rider, Brad Binder.

Yep. Honda will lose a lot if Marquez leaves.
The only thing that can keep Marquez at Honda is the emergence of a revolutionary project undertaken by Honda.
All possibilities can happen, but I think Marquez will stay at Honda.

One more loss that has been experienced by Honda is the departure of Alex Rins to another manufacturer, because as has been seen that Alex Rins was a very great rider when he was still at the Suzuki factory and this season Honda still has him even though Alex Rins himself still has to absent due to injury recovery which is still not complete. But next season he will no longer be in Honda's garage because there has been an agreement with Yamaha, so this has forced LCR Honda to recruit Johan Zarco to fill the empty seat left by Alex Rins.

[Juggy777]

Of course Verstappen get the parts before Perez,they upgrade Max car first and that is why in certain races we can see a huge difference in drivers with the same car.Did it not happen with Norris and Piastri at McLaren where Norris got the parts first and was racing at a much better pace than Piastri by getting a podium.This though does in no way removes the fact that Perez for me is the most mediocre driver I have ever seen so far in F1,he still has a Redbull and in the times of Vettel and Vebber and in early times of Verstappen together with Ricciardo we have seen quite some crashes between the team mates,something clearly not happening with Perez forcing my view on him as a real mediocre driver.

@swogerino I wasn’t aware of this because till date I thought that both drivers would get upgraded cars at the same time and now it makes sense why Verstappen can drive faster then his teammate. Also Perez isn’t a bad driver as he’s claimed more points then Hamilton and Leclerc too and who knows if he ever shifts maybe he’ll be able to dominate and even end up occupying the top spot for himself.