[Archive] BFL trolling museum

[DILLIGAF]

This is why i posted over a week ago that this BFL ASIC thing is going to kill everyone. Yes, ASIC's are good for bitcoin, but they have to be implemented properly as it looks like they have come to market too quickly and cause a double leap. This is NOT CPU to GPU, this is GPU to ASIC, since they have come to market before FPGA's have had any chance to be implemented and mature.

The ASIUC is a different beast because once it is programmed, there is NO secondary market. High initial development cost, then extremely low production cost. Considering that mining is based on difficulty, this causes a HUGE monetary conflict.

Jesus this has been so ridiculous to see people not understand this and fall on half truths and past bullshit to frame their retorts.

THIS IS A NEW BEAST AND IS UNLIKE ANYTHING THAT HAS EVER HIT MINING BEFORE.

It requires a new type of analysis in order to preserve any sense of decentralization in mining.

If miners actually gave a shit about bitcoin they would all stop buying BFL's bullshit and tell them to screw.

Let's all get behind a legit openASIC program and do this OURSELVES in the right way.

Let everyone in the community have a chance to invest on the front end and distribute the mining appliances evenly so people can assess their prospective investment properly and only have to speculate on how much the coins might be worth. Rather than wondering if they will be left in the dust in the blink of an eye.

Get behind companies like enterpoint, nzhang, modminer quad, ztek, and the rest who have shown professionalism and consistency.

With kind respect sir socialism doesn't work.  If bitcoin fails because of BFL then so be it! It was not designed properly and a new design will emerge from the ashes.  Do I want this to happen?  Of course not, no one wants to see something they built or help build be destroyed by harshness of a dog eat dog world (aka, the choices of FREE men), however this is the way of real world.  I don't expect you to agree as I was once a socialist like yourself but I have seen the light thanks to people like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff.   Heck they even converted my brother who was the worst kind of socialist... a teacher.  

Bitcoin is a tool that must be good for the individual because that's all that matters, a tool works for us not the other way around.  If bitcoin does not work for us then we must find another tool, it's that simple.

Cheers

Davinci

So, you're equating community projects with socialism?

 

Community projects can mean a community of individuals or business interests asserting their interests.

It happens all the time in the business world.  No need to bash small scale, individual miner oriented community projects.

After all.  Mining is decentralized and can be compared, currently at least, to a communal sharing of profit.

Scary, huh.

And just what about them socialists running the pools another co-op sharing of profit effort.

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[BitMinerN8]

News?

http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

[Gladamas]

News?

http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

Well, that answers a lot of our questions.

[01BTC10]

I've read every posts and I'm wondering if I wasted my time again. I'm feeling sick.

[BinaryMage]

I've read every posts and I'm wondering if I wasted my time again. I'm feeling sick.

Take a break. Read a book. Watch a movie. (Blade Runner's always a good choice)

It helps, trust me.

[cuz0882]

GPU meets ASIC?

[seriouscoin]

Of course if the bfl Asic became too much of a problem one could modify bitcoin protocol just enough so that the ASIC doesn't work or is severely hampered. They are very specific. A fpga can be reprogrammed. An ASIC would be nothing more than a coffee warmer then, literally.

Why are some people seemingly under the impression that ASICs are 'evil' or 'a problem'? ASICs are not the boogeyman. They will be used for mining, just like FPGAs are this year, just like GPUs were last year, and just like CPUs were 2 years ago.

They are a natural evolution of an efficient solution for the proof-of-work problem that the bitcoin protocol presents. The fact that someone has the cajones to dump serious capital into development of something like this is evidence that bitcoin is thriving, in fact, growing. This is a good thing for all of us.

Yes, the large-scale deployment of ASICs will make GPU (and to a lesser extent, FPGA) mining obsolete. It will drive difficulty up to levels never seen before. That is, mining with GPUs and FPGAs will no longer be profitable. So what? Just like the arrival of GPU mining en-mass heralded the demise of CPU miners. So what? We either chose to embrace ASICs as miners, or we take our profits and GTFO of the mining scene.

What may happen is that when ASICs are deployed en-mass, the 'average miner' will have a farm that has 20x the hashrate of what they currently have. So instead of a 5Ghps miner being the 'average', it will be a 100Ghps miner. If that miner has $4k worth of GPU/FPGAs now, he can choose to 'upgrade' and buy $4k worth of ASICs. The difficulty will be 20x what it is now, so 30M instead of 1.5M. Bitcoins will still be $6 (they will still be generated at the same rate so supply remains the same).

And this all means that mining profits for the previously mentioned 'average miner' with $4k worth of 100Ghps ASICs will remain the same as they are now. If he is making 3BTC a day with his $4k 5Ghps rig now, he will continue to make 3BTC a day with his $4k 100Ghps ASIC rig. Nothing changes.

This is 'evil' or 'a problem' how? It is only a problem for those who are currently invested in GPUs and FPGAs and who don't want to change. Change or die. That's how it's always been. It was the case with the CPU-to-GPU transition, and we are seeing the beginnings of it now with the GPU-to-FPGA transistion, and we have already been warned that an FPGA-to-ASIC transition is looming. No one is forcing us to continue mining, but many of us will.

+1

Preach!

Comparison

GPU is independent with bitcoin market. You can get GPU from many sources. Bitcoin market is so small to AMD (manufracture) that you dont have problem with the supply. Its the same with FPGA. This isnt like CPU - GPU transition, or the GPU - FPGA transition.


However with ASIC, BFL is the ONLY one has the technology available (timing is the key here). You must be blind to not see how powerful that is. They will dictate the bitcoin's future. Bitcoin is based on open and decentralized community.

[SgtSpike]

Have any power estimates been released?

I'm specifically interested in the expected wattage of the SC Singles, as I'm currently changing the layout of my wiring and would hate to be left with sparsely filled racks if I've underestimated the power required.

Jalepeno's will be 2-3 watts.  Considering it mines at 3.5 GH/s, you have about 0.75 watt per GH/s.  40 GH/s for a single means it should consume around 30 watts.  1TH/s for a minirig should consume around 750 watts.

Just guessing.

[kano]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vnp6he.jpg

GPU meets ASIC?

who saved the day in that movie ............

[imsaguy]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vnp6he.jpg

GPU meets ASIC?

who saved the day in that movie ............

+1

[ice_chill]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vnp6he.jpg

GPU meets ASIC?

who saved the day in that movie ............

Only in Bitcoin it's the ASIC that will save from Governmental and Institutional attacks 

[DavinciJ15]

So, you're equating community projects with socialism?

Nope.

I'm equating calling a community to stop buying from one business as a useless socialistic tactic.

if we work together for the good of the community and capitalistic activity destroys our efforts we are not doing it right not the other way around.

[BitMinerN8]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing. 

[Garr255]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing.  

Ohh and I have the lowest order number

[Sant001]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing.  

Ohh and I have the lowest order number

I have PMed and sent an e-mail to BFL, no answer in both cases.  

If they're assembling this here in China, why not sell locally as well?

[1l1l11ll1l]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing.  

Ohh and I have the lowest order number

I have PMed and sent an e-mail to BFL, no answer in both cases.  

If they're assembling this here in China, why not sell locally as well?

The board I believe is what's assembled in China, the rest is done at their office

[allinvain]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing.  

Ohh and I have the lowest order number

Dammit Garr you're making me jelly

But wasn't OgNasty claiming first spot ?

[the joint]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing.  

Ohh and I have the lowest order number

Dammit Garr you're making me jelly

But wasn't OgNasty claiming first spot ?

First jalapeno vs. first single I believe.

[Sant001]

Are they ignoring others is it just me?

A company that doesn't answers even pre-sales messages is really hard to trust and we're talking thousands of dollars.

[Garr255]

Pre-order options for ASICs went live on the BFL site. If you're into that sort of thing.  

Ohh and I have the lowest order number

Dammit Garr you're making me jelly

But wasn't OgNasty claiming first spot ?

First jalapeno vs. first single I believe.

Yup.