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Author Topic: [0Th]Ozcoin Pooled Mining |DGM 1%|Stratum+VarDiff port 80|NEW CN mining|  (Read 368338 times)
organofcorti
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April 19, 2013, 01:44:15 PM
 #2021

Do you really think Mt.Gox would hide the new address?

Can you force them to? And don't forget coin mixers and escrow agents.

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organofcorti
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April 19, 2013, 01:44:45 PM
 #2022


He send the coins to gox, trades them for USD and buys other coins back. Or uses a coin mixing service. Or trades them for virgin coin. Or spends them with someone who doesn't care that they're dealing with a dick.



Pecunia non olet.


Unless it's fiat currency and you're out of toilet paper.

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April 19, 2013, 01:53:26 PM
 #2023

I have set my donation amount to 100% to support this pool.  We cannot let honest pools like this disappear.

Let me know if I can help in any other way!

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April 19, 2013, 01:54:21 PM
 #2024

rupy, you're on. the coins just started to move. Tracking them for a little while might be an interesting exercise.

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April 19, 2013, 01:55:50 PM
 #2025

I'm going to explain this like you where 5 years old:

I, my son, his children, will _personally_ track 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd for all eternity, no matter how many addresses the value is being sent to.

The value originating in 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd is for all future marked in our collective consciousness as stolen money.

Nothing else matters, I could create a service where you can store stolen addresses, but that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

NO ONE will EVER take money from 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd, period.

Case closed.

Let's say for example that the thief uses localbitcoins.com and meets some innocent buyer on the street, transfers those 934 stolen BTC to a fresh address of the buyer (e.g. via smartphones), and in exchange the thief receives dollar bills from the unsuspecting buyer. What do you and your son and his children plan to do in this case?

Unfortunately, in reality the thief doesn't even have to bother that much. He can simply deposit the stolen BTC in MtGox, go through the AML verification procedure, and withdraw USD or whatever currency that he prefers. So even though MtGox will know the identity of the thief, they will not reveal it because of legal considerations, unless Graet could produce a court order (and it's highly unlikey that he could, because the thief is probably in another country, and efforts to involve Interpol for this amount of stolen money will hit a brick wall).
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April 19, 2013, 02:01:28 PM
 #2026

I'm going to explain this like you where 5 years old:

I, my son, his children, will _personally_ track 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd for all eternity, no matter how many addresses the value is being sent to.

The value originating in 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd is for all future marked in our collective consciousness as stolen money.

Nothing else matters, I could create a service where you can store stolen addresses, but that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

NO ONE will EVER take money from 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd, period.

Case closed.

Let's say for example that the thief uses localbitcoins.com and meets some innocent buyer on the street, transfers those 934 stolen BTC to a fresh address of the buyer (e.g. via smartphones), and in exchange the thief receives dollar bills from the unsuspecting buyer. What do you and your son and his children plan to do in this case?

Unfortunately, in reality the thief doesn't even have to bother that much. He can simply deposit the stolen BTC in MtGox, go through the AML verification procedure, and withdraw USD or whatever currency that he prefers. So even though MtGox will know the identity of the thief, they will not reveal it because of legal considerations, unless Graet could produce a court order (and it's highly unlikey that he could, because the thief is probably in another country, and efforts to involve Interpol for this amount of stolen money will hit a brick wall).

So bitcoin really is for hackers, thieves and con-men.
everyone is getting screwed over left right and centre.

Part-time Computer Systems Engineering student - Full time Service Assurance (faults) for a large Telco.
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April 19, 2013, 02:06:42 PM
 #2027

@iddo:
The amount of almost 100k USD will certainly allow to involve law enforcements, but as you stated: if the thief is in another country, you'll have no luck. And: BTC is no legal currency, so there is no real value connected, no one will help you regain it.

@rupy
If you take the law of my country (germany), you as the receiver are responsible to check incoming money for legal problems.
It's fake, your fault. You'll lose it to the police, but nothing more.
In case of BTC, that is not a real value, so even if they see the thief they won't do nothing.
And at least in level two (stolen -> converted, converted -> used) the receiver is totally innocent.

So your "all my further children, and their children, and their grandchildren, follow this mutual adress, find him in real life, kill him and eat his liver, so you will prosper from the thanks of the great Graet" is total bullshit.
It's bad, and this dude is a total asshole, a thief, you're right.
But you can't do anything.

Assume your wallet (not wallet file, your physical wallet) stolen. Do you have the numbers of your bills noted? Even if: will someone help you get them back?
No.
As is with those btc. They're lost, get over it.
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April 19, 2013, 02:14:25 PM
 #2028

I'm going to explain this like you where 5 years old:

I, my son, his children, will _personally_ track 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd for all eternity, no matter how many addresses the value is being sent to.

The value originating in 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd is for all future marked in our collective consciousness as stolen money.

Nothing else matters, I could create a service where you can store stolen addresses, but that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

NO ONE will EVER take money from 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd, period.

Case closed.

Let's say for example that the thief uses localbitcoins.com and meets some innocent buyer on the street, transfers those 934 stolen BTC to a fresh address of the buyer (e.g. via smartphones), and in exchange the thief receives dollar bills from the unsuspecting buyer. What do you and your son and his children plan to do in this case?

Unfortunately, in reality the thief doesn't even have to bother that much. He can simply deposit the stolen BTC in MtGox, go through the AML verification procedure, and withdraw USD or whatever currency that he prefers. So even though MtGox will know the identity of the thief, they will not reveal it because of legal considerations, unless Graet could produce a court order (and it's highly unlikey that he could, because the thief is probably in another country, and efforts to involve Interpol for this amount of stolen money will hit a brick wall).

So bitcoin really is for hackers, thieves and con-men.
everyone is getting screwed over left right and centre.

That's unfair towards Bitcoin, in the scenario with localbitcoins.com the fault is actually with the dollar bills. I suppose that rupy and his son and his son's children could ask that unsuspecting buyer whether he remembers the serial numbers on the dollar bills that he gave to the thief, and continue to track down the thief this way. But obviously the buyer wouldn't have a clue about the serial numbers of his USD, and even if he did, tracking down the places where those dollar bills were spent is a futile exercise.
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April 19, 2013, 02:23:18 PM
 #2029

Quote
NO ONE will EVER take money from 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd, period.

I will... If the new owner of those coins wants to sell at below market price... I will buy them.

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April 19, 2013, 02:25:35 PM
 #2030

OZ site hacked, looks like "Toil" of somesite claiming responsability...

:-(

-Wave
organofcorti
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April 19, 2013, 02:25:50 PM
 #2031

Quote
NO ONE will EVER take money from 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd, period.

I will... If the new owner of those coins wants to sell at below market price... I will buy them.

Out of interest, what would your purchase price be? This is interesting because it would be a nice indicator of how much you think a bad deed should cost the perpetrator.

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organofcorti
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April 19, 2013, 02:26:40 PM
 #2032

OZ site hacked, looks like "Toil" of somesite claiming responsability...

:-(

-Wave

Link? If this idiot has gone public and bragged about it, then it's only a matter of time before he's doxxed.

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donut
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April 19, 2013, 02:27:14 PM
 #2033

Do you really think Mt.Gox would hide the new address, if they know (which they do) that the old contained stolen coins?

AFAIK there is NO WAY to "mix" your coins. It's all in the blockchain.


A mixing service works like this:

Thief sends BTC from address A that he owns to address Y of the mixing service. The mixing service sends him back the BTC less x% from address Z of the mixing service to address B that the thief owns.

That's it.

A and B are not connected in any way.
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April 19, 2013, 02:57:07 PM
 #2034

Just a quick update from OZCOIN.

Graet needed to step away about 5 minutes ago as OZCOIN was hacked. Currently the www/db server is shut down due to defacing of the pool.

No ETA has been given. I know Graet it pretty upset over this. I was asked to post this to give everyone an update.

My suggestion is to move your miners to a new pool at this time.

Mining Both Bitcoin and Litecoin.
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April 19, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
 #2035

damn this is badnews... thanks for the update. all the luck
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April 19, 2013, 03:01:00 PM
 #2036

This is interesting: I just realized, the theif can't spend this money for ANYTHING at ANY point in time!

That address will be tracked by a hundred people for all future, I'm writing a system for this NOW.

Basically, he has BTC but as soon as he spends them, he will get caught!

Edit: Can someone point me to threads about this fact OR prove me wrong!

YOU CANNOT STEAL BITCOINS!

Rupy come on, you've been here since 2011 and you don't know about PPS or how stolen coins can't be tracked? All the thief has to do is collect the coins, use a mixing service or even an exchange and they'll never be tracked again.

I wonder if the developers are making any headway into blacklisting addresses or would that defeat the anonymity of BTC?
As per discussions that have been around (and I've been part of some) black listing addresses is not an option.
The problem is simply that someone is then given the power to decide what addresses are black listed.
Who should be given power to control BTC? No one.
It's even worse when you consider what it means for the average person.
If I have 10BTC stolen can I then go to this 'power' and ask them to blacklist the target address?
Of course not - since we then have the issue of who is right and who is wrong - that again someone will be given the power to decide.
So basically it becomes a power to be used either for those with a lot of BTC and well known, or those who are also considered 'powerful' in the BTC world.
It's called give central control of BTC to a few people - which is of course a very bad thing.

Sorry Kano it was late and night and I couldn't type up a storm without waking up the wife/kids.

What I meant to say or ask was 2 things:
-could an address be added to a central repository (yes, centralization) that could track illegal activity?  You might be able to answer this since - can we track the IP of where the coins are received assuming they're downloaded into a wallet?  I know the coins don't literally exist in the wallet, the wallet is just a bunch of keys that unlock the transactions in the blockchain (or at least as I understand it).  But since the blockchain shows a lot of information such a coin origination and propagation, does it also show if a wallet was being used to receive the coins?
-I know one of the key features of BTC is it's lack of centralization.  No overt governing authority making rules.  But that does not preclude people with a will and conviction to enforce ethical behavior.  Just because there is no law preventing one from doing something bad doesn't mean it should be done.  Just because there is no central Bitcoin police does not mean a group of moral people with skills can't come together to go after thieves and crooks.  Nobody will defend this thief's actions unless it was reveled that OzCoin funded Osama Bin Laden or something insane like that.  Every small squabble shouldn't have to be chased down for lack of due diligence on one's part, but blatant theft in the can't be condoned by saying "oh well, I guess it's our fault for not securing it enough".  Might as blame me for not putting land mines outside my windows when the thief breaks into my house.

organofcorti
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April 19, 2013, 03:03:45 PM
 #2037

Just a quick update from OZCOIN.

Graet needed to step away about 5 minutes ago as OZCOIN was hacked. Currently the www/db server is shut down due to defacing of the pool.

No ETA has been given. I know Graet it pretty upset over this. I was asked to post this to give everyone an update.

My suggestion is to move your miners to a new pool at this time.

Stealing isn't enough, vandalism too? I think I just pegged this cretin's mental age to 15. Maybe. I hope he celebrates by losing his virginity to a hooker and in the excitement forgets to wear a condom, and then freaks out for months thinking he's going to die of a venereal disease.

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amigaman
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April 19, 2013, 03:08:45 PM
 #2038

@DrG:
Every member in the network downloads the whole blockchain.
Wallet.dat contains keys, these keys unlock certain data in the downloaded data files, called the blockchain.
So, no, you can't get any ip where the coins show up.

Also:
My miners still submit to oz. Website seems offline from here, but mining servers seem running. Or am i at risk they mine for someone else???
I'd hate to drive there and redirect them on a friday evening, but if it's necessary.... I hate to lose my small incomes to an asshole more than driving.
organofcorti
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April 19, 2013, 03:18:42 PM
 #2039

[...]
Also:
My miners still submit to oz. Website seems offline from here, but mining servers seem running. Or am i at risk they mine for someone else???
I'd hate to drive there and redirect them on a friday evening, but if it's necessary.... I hate to lose my small incomes to an asshole more than driving.

Website is down due to vandalism, see wknights post:

Just a quick update from OZCOIN.

Graet needed to step away about 5 minutes ago as OZCOIN was hacked. Currently the www/db server is shut down due to defacing of the pool.

No ETA has been given. I know Graet it pretty upset over this. I was asked to post this to give everyone an update.

My suggestion is to move your miners to a new pool at this time.

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April 19, 2013, 03:26:25 PM
 #2040

OZ site hacked, looks like "Toil" of somesite claiming responsability...

:-(

-Wave

Could you please provide more detailed information? There are some of us that are capable of doing something about this.

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