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rupy
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April 19, 2013, 11:07:43 PM |
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Ok, one last attempt to describe how this works:
Imagine you had all the serial numbers of every stolen fiat bill in a database.
Would you check the bills you receive in change; if you could do it with 1 keypress, and the next one to receive those bills could throw you in jail, if they pressed 1 key and discovered your bills where stolen?
Let it sink in, sleep on it, and then post your argument.
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BANKBOOK GWT Wallet & no-FIAT Billing API
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Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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ewibit
Legendary
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Activity: 2955
Merit: 1049
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April 19, 2013, 11:09:16 PM |
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OzcoinWidget no more working?
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iCEBREAKER
Legendary
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Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
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April 19, 2013, 11:14:56 PM |
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@all that don't understand
All addresses that receive coins from this address will ALWAYS be tainted with the "stolen" red ink. If the proxy (mixing service / Mt.Gox / private person paying cash / what the !@#$ ever) is prepared to take that risk that's ok, but in the future the services that use bitcoin WILL check the origin of EVERY satochi out there and trace it back to it's origin.
For example I'm writing bitcoin bank system right now, it will trace all stolen coins. If you as a user in my bank receive coins that originate from a stolen address, MY BANK WILL BLOCK YOUR SAVINGS until you send in the information about who owns that address.
END OF THIS DISCUSSION
-1 for ASSuming all that disagree with you have no basis for their opinions besides lack of understanding -1 FOR SCREAMING IN ALL CAPS -1 for loudly declaring "END OF THIS DISCUSSION" and then continuing that discussion Sorry rupy, you just failed out of the Bitcoin Police Academy. Please clean out your locker and make way for a more attractive, less ragey candidate!  |
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Monero
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| "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014
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rupy
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April 19, 2013, 11:17:14 PM |
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Hahaha! I agree about my CAPS and attitude problem, you should see what I wrote before I edited my posts.
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os2sam
Legendary
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Activity: 3578
Merit: 1090
Think for yourself
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April 19, 2013, 11:23:13 PM |
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OzcoinWidget no more working?
Probably because Ozcoin isn't working at the moment.  |
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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twmz
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April 19, 2013, 11:35:07 PM |
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The point is nobody will use that service because... [snip]
You seem to be under the impression that this service (or other services like it, e.g. bitcoin fog) is not actively being used by people as we speak. There are plenty of non-criminal paranoid people who value anonymity enough to use and pay for these services. |
Was I helpful? 1 TwmzX1wBxNF2qtAJRhdKmi2WyLZ5VHRs WoT, GPGBitrated user: ewal. |
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deepceleron
Legendary
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1025
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April 19, 2013, 11:40:10 PM
Last edit: April 19, 2013, 11:50:58 PM by deepceleron |
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I'm mining right now (using DGM as it was set before the website went down). I can't change to a donation of 100%, but I can donate the coins to a fund to do forensic analysis, track down the true identity of said hacker through vps, proxies, logged Tor exit nodes and other such methods as might have been employed, and spread his human digits around the globe as far as the Bitcoin digits travel. If the hacker is in the Ukraine or Turkey or such, the only way to dispense justice is to take the lawless into your own hands.
I encourage Graet to reset the automatic payouts or their addresses, and give miners the ability to forgive any obligation or donate their balance owed or a portion to the pool before continued payouts. The money stolen was intended to be paid to miners, miners can say "it was stolen from us, too". I will personally shame anyone who calls such a thing a cash grab by the pool.
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LazyOtto
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April 20, 2013, 12:01:44 AM |
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I will personally shame anyone who calls such a thing a cash grab by the pool.
You are entitled to set your pool options any way you desire, of course. Forcing your desires upon others is tyranny. |
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deepceleron
Legendary
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1025
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April 20, 2013, 12:10:51 AM |
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I will personally shame anyone who calls such a thing a cash grab by the pool.
You are entitled to set your pool options any way you desire, of course. Forcing your desires upon others is tyranny. Whatever, I desire you to push the logout button. Without the work done by pool admins, you could have earned 0 BTC mining. If the pool said "we got hacked, would you like forgive some of our obligation to pay you", instead of just pushing out the payments with even more borrowed money, some may call it begging. I want to make it clear that at least one pool miner would want to do this and thinks that others should know what's going on before their mined BTC keeps rolling in like normal. |
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LazyOtto
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April 20, 2013, 12:18:31 AM |
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I will personally shame anyone who calls such a thing a cash grab by the pool.
You are entitled to set your pool options any way you desire, of course. Forcing your desires upon others is tyranny. Whatever, I desire you to push the logout button. Not gonna happen. Suggest you get over it since you have no coercive means available to enforce your desired oppression. Without the work done by pool admins, you could have earned 0 BTC mining. A false statement. If the pool said "we got hacked, would you like forgive some of our obligation to pay you", instead of just pushing out the payments with even more borrowed money, some may call it begging. I want to make it clear that at least one pool miner would want to do this and thinks that others should know what's going on before their mined BTC keeps rolling in like normal.
Fair enough. That was not your original statement. |
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rupy
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April 20, 2013, 12:23:02 AM
Last edit: April 20, 2013, 12:35:19 AM by rupy |
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The point is nobody will use that service because... [snip]
You seem to be under the impression that this service (or other services like it, e.g. bitcoin fog) is not actively being used by people as we speak. There are plenty of non-criminal paranoid people who value anonymity enough to use and pay for these services. I don't think you understand, if you pay for something real you cannot be anonymous, because real stuff needs an address. And if you are paranoid and honest, you will probably not use a service that most likely will send stolen coins in your name. Please take some time to think this through, so we can have a bit more constructive discussion around this. |
BANKBOOK GWT Wallet & no-FIAT Billing API
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rupy
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April 20, 2013, 12:27:56 AM |
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I will personally shame anyone who calls such a thing a cash grab by the pool.
Nobody except 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd knows who took that money. That's why we have to track where the money flows, let's follow the trail. |
BANKBOOK GWT Wallet & no-FIAT Billing API
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deepceleron
Legendary
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1025
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April 20, 2013, 12:46:25 AM |
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Without the work done by pool admins, you could have earned 0 BTC mining. A false statement. "work done by pool admins" = creating pools "you" = someone who can't properly parse English "could have" = a probability of an event taking place was present "earned" = past participle: to receive payment for work. 0 BTC = zip, bupkis, nada mining = a process with high variance where the only real "work" is finding a 25 BTC block, any other hashes actually earn nothing. |
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LazyOtto
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April 20, 2013, 12:50:42 AM |
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"you" = someone who can't properly parse English
My, my. You get touchy when your errors are pointed out, eh? solo p2pool |
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kano
Legendary
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Activity: 4466
Merit: 1800
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
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April 20, 2013, 01:20:02 AM |
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I will personally shame anyone who calls such a thing a cash grab by the pool.
Nobody except 16cDeEFn6sraUEJrDCt2Yg3r7j2oazSYEd knows who took that money. That's why we have to track where the money flows, let's follow the trail. Following the BTC trail and trying to work out who did it - yes that is good. Claiming anyone who receives any of that BTC, a few, dozens or hundreds of transactions down the chain, and thus is a criminal unless they hand over details of who they got the BTC from (that they clearly will not know in most cases and also in many cases that is against the law in most countries that consider the rights of people above the rights of the state) is not only a knee-jerk ridiculous idea, it is also incorrect, oppressive and a step in the direction of giving away control of BTC (to morons) Fortunately you have no such power. |
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jubalix
Legendary
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Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
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April 20, 2013, 02:12:19 AM |
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This really really #%$#blows...Graet is tops, and puts his all in to be fair and offer great service....one of the beacons in the bitcoin community....and now this.....!
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synapse
Member
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Activity: 79
Merit: 10
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April 20, 2013, 02:31:23 AM |
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This really really #%$#blows...Graet is tops, and puts his all in to be fair and offer great service....one of the beacons in the bitcoin community....and now this.....!
Yep, Graeme is probably only one of the few people in the bitcoin world I would trust for anything. I trust he will find a solution, but man it must be a huge blow. Financially and emotionally. |
Part-time Computer Systems Engineering student - Full time Service Assurance (faults) for a large Telco.
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Justin00
Legendary
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Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
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April 20, 2013, 02:33:09 AM |
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I live in that area. If you folks confirm its him and provide an address... I can go...... collect EDIT: It's looking like this is a frame. Please disregard.
Toil, Runescape hacker, real name J A Rogers, previously lived with parents in Stonnington Council. Approximate age is 23/24. Regular on or possible owner of BugAbuse.net
*edit* oh I see you guys don't think its that fellow anymore..... well if it turns out to be him let know and I'll go retrieve funds... free of charge for Graet :] |
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freshzive
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April 20, 2013, 03:21:13 AM |
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Graet don't leave us! You've always run the best pool  |
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Marrs
Member
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Activity: 112
Merit: 10
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April 20, 2013, 03:22:15 AM |
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If you as a user in my bank receive coins that originate from a stolen address, MY BANK WILL BLOCK YOUR SAVINGS until you send in the information about who owns that address.
Why would anyone use your bank, if they could suffer the same sort of account freezing that is driving so many people away from fiat banks? And you're not even saying you would do it only if ordered by a court. You're saying you'll do it to further your own vigilantist agenda. |
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