[ANN] Firo (FIRO) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup

[cebb]

Zcash futures trading at 1 BTC per Zcash on bitmex. The second best thing in anonymity zcoin is trading at $3.5?? Something is not right. either ZCASH should be at $35 ot zcoin should be at $70.

it's a faked price, it will be lower on a proper exchange, mostly because there is no volume there

It is not a fake price. it is an indication of how high will be price be once zcash is on exchange. Daily volume is more than 500 BTC on bitmex. I think zcoin is way better to go long at this price. than zcash.

I guess investors are banking on the fomo when zcash is listed in exchange.

[1715246039]

1715246039

[tokyopotato]

Zcash will probably be overpriced out the gate.  I wonder if XZC price will rise as the inflation % rate slows.  Hard to say

[doktor83]

Nobody is optimizing their miners for this coin ? 

[bolehvpn]

One of the reasons is that the devs are working on MTP algo change to replace it so little incentive to spend work and time on an algo that is about to change.

[bolehvpn]

Looks like a lot of people mistakenly think that Zcoin is a "Zcash" fork which can't be further from the truth. I posted this elsewhere but thought it would be good to have it here as well:

Zcoin is NOT a fork of Zcash in anyway.

First of all Zerocoin is the tech, Zcoin is the coin, similarly to how Zerocash is the tech and, Zcash the coin.

Zcoin uses Zerocoin technology from the Zerocoin paper. http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf
This is a very well peer reviewed paper.

Zcash uses Zerocash. http://zerocash-project.org/media/pdf/zerocash-extended-20140518.pdf

Although Zerocash is a development from Zerocoin meant to address certain perceived shortcomings of Zerocoin, they are not simple forks of each other and rely on different protocols.

Zerocash was meant to improve on Zerocoin on these issues:
a) Zerocoin still requires a basecoin to convert back before being allowed to spend. Zerocash has no more basecoin
b) Zerocash's proofs are much more efficient and smaller than Zerocoin's
c) Zerocoin uses fixed denominations to mint (1, 25, 50, 100) while Zerocash is not subject to such limitations
d) Greater anonymity with Zerocash since sender/receiver/amount are all obscured.

However Zerocoin's advantage over Zerocash are as follows:
a) While still retaining the basecoin and a lot of the Bitcoin core code, it is a lot easier to integrate to existing Bitcoin merchants/etc.
b) Although Zerocoin's proofs are larger and occupies more storage space, the computational requirements to generate a private transaction are many times faster. Zcash requires large amounts of RAM and minutes of computational time. Zerocoin requires seconds to use and is not memory intensive. Basically Zerocoin uses more storage space but is computationally much less intensive.
c) Parameter generation for both Zcoin and Zcash requires a trusted setup but Zcoin's parameters are arguably less controversial. (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)
d) Most importantly is that in Zcoin, total supply is still visible so if there's a flaw and someone is secretly creating coins for themselves, this can be much more easily detected. With Zcash, because everything is hidden, if a flaw is exploited, it may be almost impossible to detect!
e) Zerocoin's tech is more peer reviewed and better understood than Zcash's. Zcash's use of zero knowledge proofs uses ZK-Snarks which very few people understand. Even Zooko himself admits he doesn't understand it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6RLjcGVUnw&feature=youtu.be&t=17m30s). Note that Zerocoin's paper was only like 15 pages. Zcash's paper is more than 50 pages so Zcash's is considerably more complex which means more things that can go wrong. This is why Zcash had to spend so much money on multiple security companies auditing on its critical components and bugs (including some serious ones have been found). A security audit is also not fool proof as the DAO exposed and which is why Zcash also uses multiple companies to audit.

Zcash is pretty neat technology and I think is a very amazing innovation but I do think that Zerocoin has a role to play. Its anonymity is still amazingly good with a much larger traceability set than previous anonymity implementations (basically all the previous Zcoins minted), it can be much more readily used today with existing vendors/merchants and can be used in a wide variety of devices today.

Calling Zcoin a 'Zcash fork' is ignorant and shows a lack of understanding behind the large amount of work put into both these projects.

[Xtar]

Is any countdown on ZCash mainnet launch?

[doktor83]

don't ask ZCASH questions here

[traspy]

Is any countdown on ZCash mainnet launch?

Buy it here:
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-XZC
 

[bolehvpn]

Is it zcoin.tech or dot org? little bit confused here.
On github says org but here only see tech.

zcoin.tech is the correct one

zerocoin.org is the original academic paper.

Zcoin is the coin that implements Zerocoin

[solid12345]

Looks like a lot of people mistakenly think that Zcoin is a "Zcash" fork which can't be further from the truth. I posted this elsewhere but thought it would be good to have it here as well:

If someone asks you about Zcoin or thinks it's a Zcash clone, just tell them it's Zerocoin.

I know the devs had to name it Zcoin for obvious reasons but it basically IS Zerocoin.

People in crypto have short attention spans, if they start challenging you on it then you can explain the details of the history and relation/non-relations to the protocol but for now i'd just be ballsy and call it Zerocoin to someone's face.

Personally if it was up to me i'd change the coin name to Zerocoin and be done with it, afaik the name wasn't copyrighted and if the Zcash team raises a stink, it's free advertising :p

[ZenFr]

Hi all,

2 questions please about ZCoin mining :

1) Is there others optimized miners than the CPUMiner from OCMiner (SuprNova) ? Windows ? Ubuntu ?

2) Is there some project(s) of GPUs Miners ? Windows ? Ubuntu ? AMD ? NVidia ?

Thank you :-)

[szafa]

With this zcoin,zcash and zhashrate the best is zhashrate.Price is other way.Roger Ver invest in zhashrate.

[BrainShutdown]

With this zcoin,zcash and zhashrate the best is zhashrate.Price is other way.Roger Ver invest in zhashrate.

wut? 

[doktor83]

he is drunk , it's friday and work is over 

[bolehvpn]

Hi all,

2 questions please about ZCoin mining :

1) Is there others optimized miners than the CPUMiner from OCMiner (SuprNova) ? Windows ? Ubuntu ?

2) Is there some project(s) of GPUs Miners ? Windows ? Ubuntu ? AMD ? NVidia ?

Thank you :-)

You can try this one which has slight improvements to it:
https://github.com/Optiminer/cpuminer-xzc

No GPUminers.

I've also spoke to the core devs on this and they confirm that they're working on MTP algorithm.

[bolehvpn]

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Roadmap

Note that English isn't Poramin's first language and the roadmap is still a work in progress (only a few minutes old)

This is getting me excited:

Implement MTP: Merkle-tree based Proof-of-Work

Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.03588v1.pdf

We believe MTP is the way to prevent botnets from mining while allowing normal legitimate CPUs to perform proof of work. On the verification end, it will take less time to process compared with finding proof. It is better than Equihash in term of speed following the below table, excerpt from https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity16/sec16_paper_biryukov.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/wIOdIF1.png
Update Code Base to Bitcoin Core Latest Version 1 - 2 months

Implementing TOR and i2p on wallet clients 1 - 2 months

Further optimization of Zerocoin performance 2 - 4 months

Currently, our implementation doesn't do parallel verification on spending Zerocoin transaction. Once implemented, Zerocoin spend transactionss can be sped fast and there can be more than one spending tx per block.

Implementing trustless setup in Zerocoin Protocol 6 - 12 months

Based on the academic paper, it may be possible to implement the Zerocoin protocol without a trusted setup phase. We will do further research into this, and will implement it, if it is possible.

[ZenFr]

Thank you guys for your replies : my CPUs are very low and I'm affraid that with the grow of the difficulty they become obsoletes.

I will try Optiminer : is it working with SuprNova ?

[Sam123]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8QA6Nvg8RI&feature=youtu.be

LIVE ZCASH LAUNCH

[bolehvpn]

Yeah it works with Suprnova

[ZenFr]

Yeah it works with Suprnova

Thanks : compilation ended, test in progress, but it seems slower than the OCMiner...