[ANN] Firo (FIRO) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup

[doktor83]

i'm mining on pool.mn, and i found a block, so i guess i should get a reward which is 40 xzc ?
Block found 10/31/2016 02:55:40 but still no coins for me, is that normal ?

[1715127806]

1715127806

[zcoinofficial]

zcoin is so underpriced, and that zcrash so overpriced...
Zcoin wallet and everything is stable from day one.

There was the reindex issue but that had been fixed very quickly.

[doktor83]

true, i forgot about that. But that really wasn't a problem for me because i mine directly to bittrex

[traspy]

Dunno what is happening.

Zcash: +300% from 0.6 to 3 btc each
Zcoin: -50% from 0.008 to 0.003

Why this massive dump last 48 hours for zcoin?

Zcash is goint to the moon and zcoin to the hell.

[bolehvpn]

@trapsy

many ways you can interpret it. But there's a lot of FUD out there about Zcoin being a fork of Zcash even from people who should know better. I think this has been dealt with in the OP and many times in this thread too.

There's also a lot of AWS miners who are using cheap AWS credits to mine these and it's still profitable to sell for them thus creating negative price pressure in the short term though there are indications that many of their AWS instances are being terminated (yet to be confirmed).

You have to also realize that Zcash also massively dumped from the beginning .

I think we have yet to determine the price correlation of Zcash vs Zcoin but i think the simple fact is that there's still not enough exposure of what Zcoin represents and how it offers benefits over Zcash. Zcash is indeed the hot item right now with huge volatility and with BTC's price rise, it's not beyond the realm of imagination that XZC's price will suffer.

[jeremy grol]

Thanks for answer.
I heard on slack, dev are going to talk with coinpayment gateway and poramin is goin to meet a professor about mtp tomorrow.
ready for pump?

[kryptopojken]

Waiting for polo, and more news....This could be a real competitor for zec

[adhitthana]

Dunno what is happening.

Zcash: +300% from 0.6 to 3 btc each
Zcoin: -50% from 0.008 to 0.003

Why this massive dump last 48 hours for zcoin?

Zcash is goint to the moon and zcoin to the hell.

I think you just have to give it time. thousands of new coins are being mined every day. It seems that a lot of these are being sold in the market.

It's a simple matter of supply and demand. At the moment there are more sellers than buyers so the price is going down.
In the short term this has little to do with whether the tech is good or bad.

We need to find a price where there are enough buyers to soak up the supply.

The technology may be amazing but it is impossible for Zcoin to go up until there are more buyers than sellers.

[trollercoaster]

Dunno what is happening.

Zcash: +300% from 0.6 to 3 btc each
Zcoin: -50% from 0.008 to 0.003

Why this massive dump last 48 hours for zcoin?

Zcash is goint to the moon and zcoin to the hell.

No reason for this coin to be so highly priced, set some buys between 10 - 30K, don't hold all the way down.
Start buying when the early bag holders dump out of desperation.

[solid12345]

No reason for this coin to be so highly priced, set some buys between 10 - 30K, don't hold all the way down.
Start buying when the early bag holders dump out of desperation.

Highly priced? Snakeoil Navcoin with Soopy the photoshop "cryptographer" is worth 5x more than working zerocoin tech, it's crazy really. This is why we need to get on Polo, even the scam coins prosper over there with its daily volume.

[Arvydas77]

No reason for this coin to be so highly priced, set some buys between 10 - 30K, don't hold all the way down.
Start buying when the early bag holders dump out of desperation.

Highly priced? Snakeoil Navcoin with Soopy the photoshop "cryptographer" is worth 5x more than working zerocoin tech, it's crazy really. This is why we need to get on Polo, even the scam coins prosper over there with its daily volume.

I think that you cannot understand the nature of the things. If you are talking about anonymity and privacy from the point of you of academic, it is right - ZCoin and ZCash are the best. But do you think that bulk of ordinary people do need snobbish papers on cryptography they can understand zero? You can say that your paper is the most cited in academia world and it is very good if you are in the territory of university. But if you enter the market the rules are changing. I have experience in academia and, believe me, the best university papers are not the most cited ones in media. Stephen Hawking with his backward theories are the most popular publisher for ordinary people. That's weird.

My position is like this: XMR, SDC and NAV have strong communities they built over the years. Who cares about the code, if you are not a cryptographer? Even for less advanced specialist in cryptography it is not easy to understand full technological aspects of ZCash and Zcoin, not to mention pizza seller or drug dealer, for example. So, what is left to us? Only media and marketing pushing huge hype. Believe me, most of the buyers of ZCash cannot explain how it works but they are buying like crazy because of media hype. Do the same with XZC and you could expect similar results, especially, if you have only ~3000 coins supply on the market. 

Finally, could you trace XMR, SDC and NAV transactions if they are not anonymous?   

[zcoinofficial]

Just to keep you updated on what's going on behind the scenes:

The current mining algorithm is Lyra2 with T=2, R=Block_Height_Number and C=256. This was meant to be a stop gap solution to make the coin ASIC resistant until a better mining hashing algorithm is found.

We believe we have found that in the form of MTP (Merkle tree based proof of work): https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.03588v1.pdf

MTP was devised by the same guys who came up with Equihash (used in Zcash) but offers some benefits over Equihash.

First if solves the 'progress-free' issue on Equihash:

Extract from the paper:

The scheme [11] (Equihash) is quite promising, but the reference implementation reported is quite slow, as it takes about 30 seconds to get a proof that certifies the memory allocation of 500 MB. As a result, the algorithm is not truly progress-free: the probability that the solution is found within the first few seconds is actually zero. It can be argued that this would stimulate centralization among the miners. In addition, the memory parameter does not have sufficient granularity and there is no correlation between the allocated memory and the minimal time needed to find the proof.

Secondly, we believe it has a faster verification than Equihash based on this paper
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity16/sec16_paper_biryukov.pdf

This is of the utmost importance now especially for pool operators which require a lot of memory to run it successfully hence the frequent crashes on mining pools. This doesn't affect exchanges or users.

Today we overcame a technical difficulty that was holding development back a bit on MTP but are now back in full swing in implementing this and hope to complete before our estimated time of 4-5 months barring unforseen difficulties.

For further details, visit our Roadmap which will be updated from time to time.

[activemind]

Hi

[zcoinofficial]

No reason for this coin to be so highly priced, set some buys between 10 - 30K, don't hold all the way down.
Start buying when the early bag holders dump out of desperation.

Highly priced? Snakeoil Navcoin with Soopy the photoshop "cryptographer" is worth 5x more than working zerocoin tech, it's crazy really. This is why we need to get on Polo, even the scam coins prosper over there with its daily volume.

I think that you cannot understand the nature of the things. If you are talking about anonymity and privacy from the point of you of academic, it is right - ZCoin and ZCash are the best. But do you think that bulk of ordinary people do need snobbish papers on cryptography they can understand zero? You can say that your paper is the most cited in academia world and it is very good if you are in the territory of university. But if you enter the market the rules are changing. I have experience in academia and, believe me, the best university papers are not the most cited ones in media. Stephen Hawking with his backward theories are the most popular publisher for ordinary people. That's weird.

My position is like this: XMR, SDC and NAV have strong communities they built over the years. Who cares about the code, if you are not a cryptographer? Even for less advanced specialist in cryptography it is not easy to understand full technological aspects of ZCash and Zcoin, not to mention pizza seller or drug dealer, for example. So, what is left to us? Only media and marketing pushing huge hype. Believe me, most of the buyers of ZCash cannot explain how it works but they are buying like crazy because of media hype. Do the same with XZC and you could expect similar results, especially, if you have only ~3000 coins supply on the market. 

Finally, could you trace XMR, SDC and NAV transactions if they are not anonymous?   

For a layman's explanation of how it works. Taken from our Wiki.

Most cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin rely on public ledgers. This means that all transactions are public, and the history of a coin can be traced from its inception, and all the transactions that it has been involved in.

Although the ownership of addresses are not known, through advances in statistical analysis and other meta-data (such as IP, time, use of exchanges), researchers have managed to reasonably accurately tie ownership of addresses to a real life identity.

As the blockchain forms a permanent record, they can be endlessly analyzed and once the identity is revealed, all the history of the coin is also tied to the identity.

This can be problematic for example if someone used Bitcoin to do some illegal activity and that particular Bitcoin somehow ended up in your hands, you may be implicated just by virtue of being in possession of that Bitcoin. Furthermore, if you are business or merchant, you may not want competitors to have knowledge of your transactions. With a public and transparent blockchain like Bitcoin's, this may be problematic to achieve.

Some have tried to make it harder to do this by using coin mixers/tumblers. However, this involves trusting that the mixer/tumbler will not steal your money and also is not secretly recording how the coins are being mixed.

Zerocoin technology, which Zcoin uses allows the anonymization of coins that doesn't require you to put your trust in a mixer.

The easiest way to visualize Zerocoin tech is a black box, where everyone who wants to anonymize their coins places their coins in it. When they are ready to spend the coin, they produce a proof that they did place coins in the box, but the proof does not state which coin they placed. The proof could refer to any of the millions of coins in the box, and nobody knows which coin the proof is referring to. The proof simply states that the creator of the proof has placed a coin in the box, without giving any specific information about which coin it is. When other people see this proof, they have no idea who created this proof but are mathematically convinced that it is a valid proof. If the proof is valid, the proof entitles the proof creator to create a new coin with no transaction history and not related to any of the coins in the box, provided that it is of the same value. This means there is no linkage between the deposit transaction into the box and the redemption transaction whereby a coin is taken from the box.

The innovative part of Zerocoin is how this proof is generated where although you deposited the money into the box (and this transaction is recorded in the blockchain), you are somehow able to prove that you deposited into the box, without revealing which 'deposit' transaction was originally yours, hence the term 'zero knowledge proof'.

[magaura]

buying back here..

[Arvydas77]

No reason for this coin to be so highly priced, set some buys between 10 - 30K, don't hold all the way down.
Start buying when the early bag holders dump out of desperation.

Highly priced? Snakeoil Navcoin with Soopy the photoshop "cryptographer" is worth 5x more than working zerocoin tech, it's crazy really. This is why we need to get on Polo, even the scam coins prosper over there with its daily volume.

I think that you cannot understand the nature of the things. If you are talking about anonymity and privacy from the point of you of academic, it is right - ZCoin and ZCash are the best. But do you think that bulk of ordinary people do need snobbish papers on cryptography they can understand zero? You can say that your paper is the most cited in academia world and it is very good if you are in the territory of university. But if you enter the market the rules are changing. I have experience in academia and, believe me, the best university papers are not the most cited ones in media. Stephen Hawking with his backward theories are the most popular publisher for ordinary people. That's weird.

My position is like this: XMR, SDC and NAV have strong communities they built over the years. Who cares about the code, if you are not a cryptographer? Even for less advanced specialist in cryptography it is not easy to understand full technological aspects of ZCash and Zcoin, not to mention pizza seller or drug dealer, for example. So, what is left to us? Only media and marketing pushing huge hype. Believe me, most of the buyers of ZCash cannot explain how it works but they are buying like crazy because of media hype. Do the same with XZC and you could expect similar results, especially, if you have only ~3000 coins supply on the market. 

Finally, could you trace XMR, SDC and NAV transactions if they are not anonymous?   

For a layman's explanation of how it works. Taken from our Wiki.

Most cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin rely on public ledgers. This means that all transactions are public, and the history of a coin can be traced from its inception, and all the transactions that it has been involved in.

Although the ownership of addresses are not known, through advances in statistical analysis and other meta-data (such as IP, time, use of exchanges), researchers have managed to reasonably accurately tie ownership of addresses to a real life identity.

As the blockchain forms a permanent record, they can be endlessly analyzed and once the identity is revealed, all the history of the coin is also tied to the identity.

This can be problematic for example if someone used Bitcoin to do some illegal activity and that particular Bitcoin somehow ended up in your hands, you may be implicated just by virtue of being in possession of that Bitcoin. Furthermore, if you are business or merchant, you may not want competitors to have knowledge of your transactions. With a public and transparent blockchain like Bitcoin's, this may be problematic to achieve.

Some have tried to make it harder to do this by using coin mixers/tumblers. However, this involves trusting that the mixer/tumbler will not steal your money and also is not secretly recording how the coins are being mixed.

Zerocoin technology, which Zcoin uses allows the anonymization of coins that doesn't require you to put your trust in a mixer.

The easiest way to visualize Zerocoin tech is a black box, where everyone who wants to anonymize their coins places their coins in it. When they are ready to spend the coin, they produce a proof that they did place coins in the box, but the proof does not state which coin they placed. The proof could refer to any of the millions of coins in the box, and nobody knows which coin the proof is referring to. The proof simply states that the creator of the proof has placed a coin in the box, without giving any specific information about which coin it is. When other people see this proof, they have no idea who created this proof but are mathematically convinced that it is a valid proof. If the proof is valid, the proof entitles the proof creator to create a new coin with no transaction history and not related to any of the coins in the box, provided that it is of the same value. This means there is no linkage between the deposit transaction into the box and the redemption transaction whereby a coin is taken from the box.

The innovative part of Zerocoin is how this proof is generated where although you deposited the money into the box (and this transaction is recorded in the blockchain), you are somehow able to prove that you deposited into the box, without revealing which 'deposit' transaction was originally yours, hence the term 'zero knowledge proof'.

Thank you, for me it is not a question that ZCoin is very solid project.

[luckygenough56]

block time ? 10 min like btc ?

max block size ?

[magaura]

stupid miners dumping this sweet coin at this price.. what will be above 0.01 soon.. but let them.. so you can buy more..

[cryptodove]

Hi Guys

Zcoin price is currently down due to BTC price rise, this is the same as many other alts who have dumped due to BTC pump.

Zcoin is currently around 260k sats on Bittrex https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-XZC

This is a great time to buy low and sell high as there are several developments happening you may not be aware of.

1) The Zcoin website is getting a complete redesign
2) Devs are currently working on upgrading BTC codebase to 0.13.1
3) Zcoin algorithm is being changed form Lyra2 to MTP
4) Talks are underway by the team so that Zcoin can get added to Poloniex
5) Talks are ongoing with Zcoin Team and Coinpayments.net to get this web payments function added

So as you can see there is a a lot of development happening and at this low price of around 270k sats it is a great time to buy and hold.

I am also updating my thread on reddit with all the new developments and new links. Check it out as well:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZCoinProject/comments/5aceal/zcoin_xzc_news_updates_and_links_updated_regularly/


Cheers
CryptoDove
BTC TIPS 1GrQvuMiyRbGXGUja6SCShrcrbC8uNdjpD
https://twitter.com/CryptoDove
https://CryptoDove.weebly.com

[jeremy grol]

lest chance to buy now at bottom price.