[ANN] Firo (FIRO) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup

[J_A_Bankster]

Woow great rising of zcoin, any news about MTP?

apparently testing is going well and nearing the implementation

[go6ooo1212]

..it's nothing seen yet , just watch

[cyberspacemonkey]

I think we'll remain consolidating for a while until MTP is released, there's little reason to doubt this coin will be successful with such dedicated Devs behind it.

[Rogerdale]

I think we'll remain consolidating for a while until MTP is released, there's little reason to doubt this coin will be successful with such dedicated Devs behind it.

What is MTP?

[LuckyKey]

I think we'll remain consolidating for a while until MTP is released, there's little reason to doubt this coin will be successful with such dedicated Devs behind it.

+1. I'm consolidating, and excited about this coin.

I'm looking forward to the growth and progress moving forward. Well done!

[Shiroslullaby]

I think we'll remain consolidating for a while until MTP is released, there's little reason to doubt this coin will be successful with such dedicated Devs behind it.

What is MTP?

https://zcoin.io/ufaqs/what-is-mtp/

"The MTP (Merkle Tree Proof) algorithm was devised by Alex Biryukov and Dmitry Khovratovich from the University of Luxembourg in their paper published on the 11 June 2016 titled Egalitarian Computing. These are the same researchers who came up with Equihash that is currently used in ZCash and the Argon2 key derivation function."

I don't know much about the algorithm other than its based on Merkle Tree hashing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree

https://zcoin.io/what-is-mtp-merkle-tree-proof-and-why-it-is-important-to-zcoin/
says it should mean the coin is ASIC resistant, able to be mined on CPU/GPU, and provide quick verification for devices like smartphones.
Sound interesting and would be great to see this as the first coin to implement this.

[playingpoodles]

Zcoin has massively underperformed last few months. It does seem to me the problem is the inflation rate and lack of demand. Actually, MTP we'll believe it when we see it. The claims of Eth integration mixing integration - any privacy coin can say hey, we're exploring Eth mixing, we're going to cash in on its rise too without any evidence or explanation as to how they're doing it, who's doing it, and a timeline for doing it. To me that's meaningless.

Again with the incentivised nodes, do we even know how many coins per node will be required? All this stuff about it being to secure the network - what nauseous lies. Master node systems - as Dash showed so clearly - are really about pumping the price by locking up demand. In that sense, I think it is a good idea.

To me the real concrete step of value this month has been the Coinomi wallet. That's great. The Zcoin wallet was a joke, and it shouldn't have taken as long as it has to fix (if it even is fixed, I was lucky to get me coin off the old one and would be scared to use the new one).

Let's see if the devs told the truth when they said Zcoin would list on new exchanges soon, or if that's just another attempt to mislead to raise the coin price to increase their dev cut.

All in all, worth holding some given 10x upside if things work out within next 12 months, whereas downside is probably $4 minimum I would have thought.

[Cyndonald]

I think we'll remain consolidating for a while until MTP is released, there's little reason to doubt this coin will be successful with such dedicated Devs behind it.

+1. I'm consolidating, and excited about this coin.

I'm looking forward to the growth and progress moving forward. Well done!

if somebody hasn't not yet got onboard. Please buy one ticket and get onboard quickly. This is the last chance for you.

[zcoinofficial]

Zcoin has massively underperformed last few months. It does seem to me the problem is the inflation rate and lack of demand. Actually, MTP we'll believe it when we see it. The claims of Eth integration mixing integration - any privacy coin can say hey, we're exploring Eth mixing, we're going to cash in on its rise too without any evidence or explanation as to how they're doing it, who's doing it, and a timeline for doing it. To me that's meaningless.

Again with the incentivised nodes, do we even know how many coins per node will be required? All this stuff about it being to secure the network - what nauseous lies. Master node systems - as Dash showed so clearly - are really about pumping the price by locking up demand. In that sense, I think it is a good idea.

To me the real concrete step of value this month has been the Coinomi wallet. That's great. The Zcoin wallet was a joke, and it shouldn't have taken as long as it has to fix (if it even is fixed, I was lucky to get me coin off the old one and would be scared to use the new one).

Let's see if the devs told the truth when they said Zcoin would list on new exchanges soon, or if that's just another attempt to mislead to raise the coin price to increase their dev cut.

All in all, worth holding some given 10x upside if things work out within next 12 months, whereas downside is probably $4 minimum I would have thought.

For the Ethereum integration mixing. We will show the work in progress soon. You probably missed that we got ourselves a Solidity developer, Tadhg Riordan (@riordant) that has worked on something similar for zk-SNARKs before https://zcoin.io/tadhg-riordan-joins-the-zcoin-team-as-solidity-developer-for-ethereum-mixer/. This isn't an immediate priority but it is something we are definitely working on and have dedicated some resources to it.

You are right that indeed the Zcoin wallet experience is not where we want to be. The Zcoin wallet issues on syncing we have identified stemmed from three main issues. The first is the old Bitcoin core which we are upgrading right after MTP as our push towards Znodes but to solve the immediate issue we ported some code over from 0.13 You can see the original Bitcoin core issue listed here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4353. The second issue is the Zerocoin verification which we believe we have identified the bug and pushed a fix but it's still a WIP. The third is that multi threaded verification is not in just yet so only one core is being pushed so there's a lot of room of optimization here. This can be focused on a lot more after MTP release since it's a prereq for Znodes.

Previously with only Poramin, Saran and Aizensou busy working on MTP which is an immense undertaking since it was coded from the ground up, we didn't have the necessary resources to focus on everything we wanted to. Even djm34 helped us out a lot since his work is dependent on MTP being launched. However with more developers coming on board and Leandro (leoreinaux) joining the team we are rapidly expanding our dev team so that we can deal with several issues at once. The guys who have been following the code on our github on the MTPTest branch can see how much work  has been done where whole sections were totally reworked. We understand the frustration but you'll see it soon enough. The team thinks it's pretty soon . Original development takes a lot more resources and we had to make a decision as to whether to focus on MTP which many people are waiting for or fix the wallet experience so it was a tough call then. We've learned from this especially when trying to estimate time needed for original development as compared to when porting code over from other projects. With more devs on board and people willing to work for us, this should sort itself out soon. Our cryptography advisor Tim Ruffing is also working on looking at libzerocoin.

For the incentivized nodes, it's more about the Zerocoin verification part and providing a layer to build on to work on things like a decentralized market place. Zerocoin verification currently is quite resource intensive and we wanted to offload that to incentivized nodes. This may become more important when we move to Sigma as despite the proof sizes we have yet to see the performance impact it has. The difference between our incentivized nodes scheme and other masternode like systems is that you don't have to trust any single masternode to maintain your privacy due to the cryptography we use. A Znode cannot 'spy' on your mixes due to the zk-proof unlike in coinjoin. We don't deny that it will help to provide price stability but it isn't the sole reason but that will be the easiest part to implement. Why we cannot provide exact figures as to how many coins you need for a Znode is simply because as you have seen, the price is so fluid and we need to cut a balance between keeping the bar high-ish without making it inaccessible. It will only be clearer once we get closer to release then we can make a more educated decision then. There have been some figures thrown around but yeah that's just speculation at the moment.

[playingpoodles]

@zcoinofficial

1. I'm on your side because I have a financial motive to see Zcoin prosper, and because fundamentally I believe it has a compelling case becaues, A. Monero can't scale, and B. Risk of un-auditable inflation from an unknown bug makes Zcash crazy, once revealed its price can drop from whatever may be to zero.

2. You thought you would prioritise implementing a new egalitarian mining algorithm over having a working wallet? WTF? Having a new better algorithm rather than an old and perfectly working one was more important than having a wallet that works and syncs? I have no doubt people have lost coin from that wallet of yours, I know I nearly did. But that was a lower priority for you? I think Zcoin devs made an enormous mistake in this regard, although if the Coinomi wallet works - I haven't tested yet - Coinomi seem to have solved it for you.

[zcoinofficial]

Yes the Coinomi wallet works awesome because it's a light wallet implementation which we would also have again with the Bitcoin core upgrade. A Bitcoin core upgrade would have costed us another 1-2 months and have MTP branded as vaporware so yeah I know it may seem strange on the decision and if investors were not hounding us for MTP, it would have definitely been our preference to work on the core and wallet upgrade as it is our immediate priority right after this.

However Leoreinaux's work was quite substantial and has helped a lot. The latest pushes also fix a lot of things. Also aizensou's work on znode.io also helped people in getting it synced. I'm not denying that logically, it makes sense for core upgrade before MTP and again, immediate priority after this over all else. Also for those of you asking for Znodes, the core upgrade is also a prereq for that ;P.

If anything, the mistake was made many months ago in committing to a release date for an undertaking as big and complex as this and I can say safely EVERY SINGLE DAY, we get bombarded with when is MTP coming. Some of our internal release targets when we were communicating with some of the community to keep them informed were instead spread as deadlines so it put a lot of pressure on us. Lessons learnt:P

[godda04]

I think we'll remain consolidating for a while until MTP is released, there's little reason to doubt this coin will be successful with such dedicated Devs behind it.

What is MTP?

This video explains it very well. I also believe there will be an animated video on the subject soon aswell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BKFGSpHwBs

[yaooke]

Ok so I am gonna hold this coin for over a year if Roger Ver and Tim Lee are invested in it and think it can be bigger then Monero, Zcash, Dash
https://zcoin.io/a-message-from-our-new-investor-in-zcoin-tim-lee/

[playingpoodles]

I'm a highly suspicious person, a useful quality in the crypto space. I do not think it would be productive to call anyone a liar. But has anyone seen any statement out of the mouth of Ver that he's invested in Zcoin? I haven't. And I've looked.

[zcoinofficial]

I'm a highly suspicious person, a useful quality in the crypto space. I do not think it would be productive to call anyone a liar. But has anyone seen any statement out of the mouth of Ver that he's invested in Zcoin? I haven't. And I've looked.

https://news.bitcoin.com/zero-knowledge-zcoin-launching-soon/



Check the disclaimer on his own site bitcoin.com. Also before u ask, Moneta was never launched. Moneta was rebranded as Zcoin before launch to reflect that we're the first implementation of Zerocoin. Also, we have his quote on our main website as a Zcoin investor so I don't think we would have the balls to say it if it wasn't true.

As to why Roger has been apparently silent, he's been mentioning us at talks, social media and also Youtube videos (there's a few about) and we have been working with him to launch something but yeah I don't want to say too much for fear of saying that we are saying things to hype price ;P. So don't look too deeply into this . He also created a sub forum for us on bitcoin.com. Note that Roger is also an investor of Zcash. His involvement will be more apparent once the time is right but Roger is a polarizing figure in the crypto space as you are all aware but has always been a big supporter of financial privacy.

You can see his Reddit post on his memorydealers account here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/zcoin/comments/5xzc8b/roger_vers_list_of_bitcoin_competitors_zcoin/

[playingpoodles]

@zcoinofficial

If the price goes up - and it certainly looks like it will - finally - I think a good deal of that will be owed to you. Professional marketing and communications is absolutely worth many times its weight. Salute

[harvw]

@zcoinofficial

If the price goes up - and it certainly looks like it will - finally - I think a good deal of that will be owed to you. Professional marketing and communications is absolutely worth many times its weight. Salute

Couldn't agree more with this statement.

[patriziobtc]

hold your coin i think in 4 or 5 month we can see xzc at 0.01

[J_A_Bankster]

I just tried a test withdraw from Bittrex to Icoinomi and the status in Bittrex is listed as ''invalid''

I have triple checked the address and wrote it exactly as provided in my icoinomi wallet... So now im dealing with a crashing IOS wallet and an Icoinomi wallet that seems to not accept the withdraw from Bittrex... Guys...please....

For this being my favorite investment it sucks that i have no way to safely store my zcoin away from Bittrex... GRRRRRR

I trust your abilities so please lets get our act in order...

[J_A_Bankster]

I just tried a test withdraw from Bittrex to Icoinomi and the status in Bittrex is listed as ''invalid''

I have triple checked the address and wrote it exactly as provided in my icoinomi wallet... So now im dealing with a crashing IOS wallet and an Icoinomi wallet that seems to not accept the withdraw from Bittrex... Guys...please....

For this being my favorite investment it sucks that i have no way to safely store my zcoin away from Bittrex... GRRRRRR

I trust your abilities so please lets get our act in order...

Ok just generated a new Icoinomi wallet and now the withdraw is authorized... Thank the lord we are heading in a good direction, Good luck people...

Still, please get this wallet thing in order, the world is ready to get onboard with Zcoin

Thanks