[ANN] Firo (FIRO) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup

[Prima Primat]

A few pages back on this thread you'll see MTP was exposed as fundamentally not memory hard by disgruntled a miner developer who complained of inexplicable code changes

I think you misunderstood something there, too. mjosephs was frustrated about the existence of the time-memory-tradeoff attack vector in the first place,

I think you misunderstood something there.  The existence of the time-memory tradeoff attack in no way frustrates me; as a matter of fact reading the Dinur+Nadler paper was quite an enjoyable experience.

I should point out to you that literally nothing you do in computing is 'fundamentally memory hard'. You can always exchange memory usage for CPU time (because whatever you save in memory, you could also just re-calculate whenever you need it again). That's one of the basics of computer science.

This is incorrect; you are confused about what "memory-hard" means.  The definition is given on page 3 of  Stronger Key Derivation Via Sequential Memory-Hard Functions by Colin Percival:

Definition 1. A memory-hard algorithm on a Random Access Machine is an algorithm which uses S(n) space and T(n) operations, where S(n) ∈  Ω(T(n)^1−𝜀).

There are plenty of functions in this class.  The fact that you can "exchange memory usage for CPU time" does not mean a function is not memory-hard.

I was replying to playingpoodles, and I was referring to this mythical 'fundamental' memory-hardness (as I think I've highlighted enough), rather than the term 'memory-hard' itself – I'm not confused about that (as you would've realized if you had read 3 more lines, where I gave that exact definition in layman's terms).
The point I was making is that whether or not something, especially a more complex algo like MTP, is memory-hard in practice can obviously depend on all sorts of details of the algorithm. And once such details have been spotted and fixed, I can't see how it would not be 'fundamentally' memory-hard. Can you?

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[mjosephs]

The point I was making is that whether or not something, especially a more complex algo like MTP, is memory-hard in practice can obviously depend on all sorts of details of the algorithm. And once such details have been spotted and fixed, I can't see how it would not be 'fundamentally' memory-hard.

Pretty vague.

[Prima Primat]

The point I was making is that whether or not something, especially a more complex algo like MTP, is memory-hard in practice can obviously depend on all sorts of details of the algorithm. And once such details have been spotted and fixed, I can't see how it would not be 'fundamentally' memory-hard.

Pretty vague.

Well I'm not a Khovratovich or Dinur or Nadler, but if Khovratovich has been in contact with the two and he says the current fix removes the attack vector, then it's reasonable to believe that.

[zcoinofficial]

Well I'm not a Khovratovich or Dinur or Nadler, but if Khovratovich has been in contact with the two and he says the current fix removes the attack vector, then it's reasonable to believe that.

We also spoke to Marc Bevands who had a lengthy exchange with Alexy and Dmitry. There's a lot of academic and good discussions happening in the background.

Note we are not saying that MTP is not going to be improved upon/developed upon. We do definitely forsee upcoming changes. One of the things we are looking at is also the compression of the proof which is quite large.

However at this point in time, we are still going ahead with rolling MTP on the mainnet unless a significant change is required due to new developments. We may push back the competition deadline a little and introduce a separate bounty fund to encourage scrutiny on MTP.

[statdude]

I'lll give it to poodles, he's got a nice writing style, unusual in the parts.

But, warning to readers, he's a either a shill for zencash, or at least unofficially part of that team. At minimum, he's a Zen cheerleader. I also don't dislike Zen, but pretty hillarious he is attempting to FUD Zcash price considering XZC has massively outperformed ZEN since the launch.

The market will ultimately decide which of the two coins is worth more. As of today, it is Zcoin. And poodles has incentive to FUD, unfortunately for him, he's losing his edge.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/596832263302f/

[playingpoodles]

When did I mention a competitor coin on this thread? Never, you did. If FUD = not blindly giving the benefit of the doubt to a dev team when you've been let down and deceived by them at least half a dozen times over six months - yes, what I write is FUD. If you really want to know why I'm telling so many of you what you don't want to hear, then here's why: I feel personally deceived by Zcoin devs, manipulated into investment decisions based on false information they trickle to the market, I lost a bit but not much but frankly I feel personally slighted by it.

My first post on Zcoin was this in early April  https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6379u9/zcoin_bug_a_deliberate_inside_job/  about the Zcoin hack, long before I posted about ZenCash or any other coin. In that I mentioned I thought the hack was an inside job. I still do, but I was willing to overlook it and invest in Zcoin because I thought there's enough common interests between Zcoin devs and investors. But so much shi(p) was pulled between then and now I'm close to all out of overlooking big promises made, and smelly and dead roses delivered.

Very unfair you relate my commenting on Zcoin to anything other than my personal opinion. Look, I want you guys to win, I want Zcoin to pump - I have a small holding, I trimmed it plenty though. I don't want you guys not to make money. But it's not up to me, it's up to devs, and they've short-termed and pulled too many rabbits out of too many hats. That's my view. There's potential value in Zcoin, it could pump, but for me at least there's a massive trust issue, and better altcoins that to me have a better upside/downside balance. And by the way I'm not talking about any coin I've ever posted about, just a couple I've got in my mind.

Please don't be unfair to me.

I'lll give it to poodles, he's got a nice writing style, unusual in the parts.

But, warning to readers, he's a either a shill for zencash, or at least unofficially part of that team. At minimum, he's a Zen cheerleader. I also don't dislike Zen, but pretty hillarious he is attempting to FUD Zcash price considering XZC has massively outperformed ZEN since the launch.

The market will ultimately decide which of the two coins is worth more. As of today, it is Zcoin. And poodles has incentive to FUD, unfortunately for him, he's losing his edge.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/596832263302f/

[awill333]

@ PP -
Are you really serious? Do you think this is your personal thread to explain your frustrations? You post at least twice as much as the most regulars here. I have bee reading this thread for weeks a result of serious investment interest in zcoin. I dont wish to hear your redundant drivel on each and every page and sure i am not the only one.

Isnt this thread about zcoin? I am interested in the content so i show up to read each day. As far as i am c9ncerned   , your continuous blabber is polluting this discussion and preventing any actual intellectual dialouge. You sound like a spoiled rich kid with an attitude problem.  PLZ: STFU .

So we can read about something here relevant to the topic.

[zcoinofficial]

A quick dev update:

Aizensou's Bitcoin Core upgrade to 0.13 is progressing smoothly. Still on track to complete by end of the month. Fingers crossed. Took a bit longer than originally foreseen due to one of the functions used by the Zerocoin code being deprecated in 0.13.

Adapted Bitcoin paper wallet generator for Zcoin. To be released soon.

MTP debate and analysis still ongoing. Poramin to release one more minor patch. Looking into extension of miner bounty competition deadline. For the moment still aiming to go on mainnet at Block 47500.

Reference GPU miner development taking longer than expected. This is because of the proof size being put in the header being large that's causing some issues with adapting existing miner code. djm34 believes he knows how to work around this now.

Tim Ruffing has completed a bunch of fixes to libzerocoin. Will integrate and publish them during core upgrade period. Tim Ruffing beginning benchmark work on Sigma to explore performance times as compared to Zerocoin.

Riordant has commenced work into coding for Ethereum mixer. Previous efforts were into examining/calculating the gas costs for the various functions and optimizations that can be done to reduce gas costs.

[ho3in]

hello, i have waiting for few week yet but zcoin wallet dont downloaded full yet !
now synchronizing is 9 week ! what i doing now ?

[zuluking]

hello, i have waiting for few week yet but zcoin wallet dont downloaded full yet !
now synchronizing is 9 week ! what i doing now ?

It's not your fault, the wallet is broken. You can use znode.io to try to fix it, but it never worked for me (win10).

[Prima Primat]

hello, i have waiting for few week yet but zcoin wallet dont downloaded full yet !
now synchronizing is 9 week ! what i doing now ? :'( :'( :'(

It's not your fault, the wallet is broken. You can use znode.io to try to fix it, but it never worked for me (win10).

Are you both using older wallet versions? Starting a new wallet with the current version (0.8.7.8) took a day for me to synchronize fully (that's without the znode.io download), and has been starting instantly ever since.

@ho3in If nothing else works (if you've already downloaded the newest wallet), try starting with the -reindex flag – if you're using Windows you can do that by making a shortcut to zcoin-qt.exe and then adding " -reindex" to the target path. (Just make sure to remove it again once you've successfully reindexed.)

Well I'm not a Khovratovich or Dinur or Nadler, but if Khovratovich has been in contact with the two and he says the current fix removes the attack vector, then it's reasonable to believe that.

We also spoke to Marc Bevands who had a lengthy exchange with Alexy and Dmitry. There's a lot of academic and good discussions happening in the background.

Note we are not saying that MTP is not going to be improved upon/developed upon. We do definitely forsee upcoming changes. One of the things we are looking at is also the compression of the proof which is quite large.

However at this point in time, we are still going ahead with rolling MTP on the mainnet unless a significant change is required due to new developments. We may push back the competition deadline a little and introduce a separate bounty fund to encourage scrutiny on MTP.

The Marc Bevand? Pretty cool :)
Also, seems like a good idea to go for an open approach and introduce that "scrutiny bounty".

[xs.over]

I can't understand from where are coming these huge amount of hashrate? XZC net hashrate grows very quickly. At the same time, profitability is very low, about 4 times lower than on most other altcoins.
So, this is a botnet, or what is it ??  
77Gh net hashrate it's about 65K pcs gtx 1060 GPUs. Seriously??? and all these miners still mining this coin, while other altcoins offering 3x, 4x higher profit?? smells fishly

Two biggest pools have only ~ 23Gh hashrate! Where the rest net hashrate is sitting? Seems what the resh hashrate is HIGHLY centralised by SOLO miners (botnets)

[windows88]

Looks like zcoin is always hot

[LTCMAXMYR]

I can't understand from where are coming these huge amount of hashrate? XZC net hashrate grows very quickly. At the same time, profitability is very low, about 4 times lower than on most other altcoins.
So, this is a botnet, or what is it ??  
77Gh net hashrate it's about 65K pcs gtx 1060 GPUs. Seriously??? and all these miners still mining this coin, while other altcoins offering 3x, 4x higher profit?? smells fishly

Two biggest pools have only ~ 23Gh hashrate! Where the rest net hashrate is sitting? Seems what the resh hashrate is HIGHLY centralised by SOLO miners (botnets)

it is ASIC miner,like DASH ,ASIC mining,and to da moon,just buy buy buy!!!!

[zcoinofficial]

We are happy to announce that Torphop Korgtadam has been appointed to be a consultant for Zcoin in IT Security matters.

Torphop Korgtadam is Co-Founder of Creden and MHCON (Meet the Hackers). He has experience in the banking industry and has been appointed as Global Subject Matter Experts (GSME) for Cyber Security, End-Point Security, and Web Application Security. He consults and advises on matters in relation to IT audit and control and the management strategy of internal audits.

https://zcoin.io/team/

[FFI2013]

Is anyone mining with 390/290s share your gadgetry thankd

[AND01]

zcoin Wallet too original too antique, please re-design beautiful wallet

[zcoinofficial]

Quick Development Updates

From our testing, Zcoin's updated Bitcoin core 0.13 sync speed from scratch is about 6 hours which is a huge improvement. Testing Zerocoin functions at the moment.

Dev team decided that despite the benefits of 0.13, MTP migration will happen first before core upgrade improvements are deployed. The same goes with our libzerocoin upgrades and fixes. This is because MTP has a totally new block header structure so migration from the old block header structure needs some planning and we want to make sure that happens smoothly first before deploying too many fundamental changes especially one as big as Bitcoin core and libzerocoin. Migration to 0.13 will then open the way for deployment of Znodes.

Final MTP patch is in place. Will announce separate MTP bounty (not the same as a MTP miner dev competition) in the next few days to encourage scrutiny into MTP.

[dasgardo87]

I can't understand from where are coming these huge amount of hashrate? XZC net hashrate grows very quickly. At the same time, profitability is very low, about 4 times lower than on most other altcoins.
So, this is a botnet, or what is it ??  
77Gh net hashrate it's about 65K pcs gtx 1060 GPUs. Seriously??? and all these miners still mining this coin, while other altcoins offering 3x, 4x higher profit?? smells fishly

Two biggest pools have only ~ 23Gh hashrate! Where the rest net hashrate is sitting? Seems what the resh hashrate is HIGHLY centralised by SOLO miners (botnets)

dude who have server with power 65K GPU? I dont believe someone can get that even from google cloud, aws or azure  without not getting attention from them, it's possible if ASIC, but please someone who have knowledge in that subject please enlgihten us whether it can be ASIC or something else

[zuluking]

As long as the devs are actively working and making progress on the project I'm a happy long term investor. Good job and keep it up!