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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007310 times)
rizzman
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September 19, 2013, 09:28:44 PM
 #10001

Actually, I make a great deal more mining on Slush than I do on BTC guild with my 83 Gh/s ....

I'm sure of it, its PPS... The only problem with it, is like I said, you get paid even if no blocks are found. Risk for reward

A) Slush is NOT PPS

B) You do NOT get paid more on a PPS pool.  You just get less variance.  The miner is assuming NO extra risk on a PPS pool, so why would he make more?  It's the pool operator that is taking a risk.




That is a half truth. IF the pool has enough BTC in reserve, it will pay you out regardless of whether the shares you contributed amounted to solving a block or not. now, IF the pool DOES NOT have enough BTC in reserve, and you contribute X amount of shares towards a block which amounts to nothing, then the pool has an obligation (and I use the term obligation loosely) to pay you out for each share even if the pool did not solve a block. Then the owner of the pool has to make a decision. A. Pay out of his own pocket the BTC owed to you, OR B. Bankrupt the Pool and leave you high and dry....It has happened. research Bitclockers.com - the pool tried pay PPS at a less than 3% rake and the pool went bankrupt. alot of people lost alot of coin because of this. I personally lost .29 BTC but it was enough to make me pay attention to how a pool operates much more acutely.

PPLNS is different as it will never pay out more than the pool brings in. Ultimately, its up to you, if you wanna risk it with PPS, and you feel comfortable with it, go ballz deep.. no problem. Just know what your getting into.

On a side note, One lesson learned by a lot of people over at bitclockers is that anyone who is mining large amounts of coin should not leave it inside the pool. Set your auto payout triggers to something low so that you will know IF and/or a pool is having a problem paying its miners.
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rizzman
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September 19, 2013, 09:33:03 PM
 #10002

Actually, I make a great deal more mining on Slush than I do on BTC guild with my 83 Gh/s ....

I'm sure of it, its PPS... The only problem with it, is like I said, you get paid even if no blocks are found. Risk for reward

No slush is not PPS, it uses an an odd exponential function that severely penalizes pool hoppers.  If you leave a round before a block is found, your reward very quickly declines to zero.  Shares found closest to the block are worth more than shares at the beginning of the round, unless it happens to be a very short round.

Slush pretty consistently finds an average of 18-24 blocks per day, and i make about 0.030 per round with 83 Ghs.  That gets me 0.4 per day most other places - especially on PPS pools like 50 BTC.  On a good day on Slush I can make twice that, and on a bad day, a little less than that.

I completely agree with you that it is better for the miner when it works / the pool is well funded and reputable. The thing to lookout for is when everyone starts piling into the pool and the luck doesn't adjust to the newly recruited miners... with the amount of interest/hashpower that its being brought online, the risk increases.

How sure are you that they are not using PPS? I originally created an account with them until I read some wheres they were a PPS pool then the buck stopped there.
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September 19, 2013, 09:36:52 PM
 #10003

There was a question about the feasability of solo mining.
Go here: www.bitcoinx.com/profit/
Punch in your hashrate and expected difficulty and read out your chances.

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September 19, 2013, 10:21:14 PM
 #10004

I apologize profusely to those who have been waiting for delivery from BFL, in some cases for over a year, and I realize this may be adding salt to the wound but in the interest of full disclosure they appear to be sending our bulk chip orders on schedule. I received my chips exactly 100 days after paying my deposit. I bought from KnCminer and Metabank at the same time and have received nothing so far from them. Not sure whether this is because it's much simpler to send just chips (Avalon chip buyers might disagree) or because BFL was motivated to collect the balance due on delivery. However this might be a better pre-order model going forward: Collect half upfront and half on delivery...

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September 19, 2013, 10:27:04 PM
 #10005

I apologize profusely to those who have been waiting for delivery from BFL, in some cases for over a year, and I realize this may be adding salt to the wound but in the interest of full disclosure they appear to be sending our bulk chip orders on schedule. I received my chips exactly 100 days after paying my deposit. I bought from KnCminer and Metabank at the same time and have received nothing so far from them. Not sure whether this is because it's much simpler to send just chips (Avalon chip buyers might disagree) or because BFL was motivated to collect the balance due on delivery. However this might be a better pre-order model going forward: Collect half upfront and half on delivery...


you missed the part where bfl had the chips pretty much paid for in preorder money when they started to produce them and where they decided to part with the old chips and try out their "next gen" miner...
That is pretty much the difference, KNC needed the preorder money to fund the masks, BFL had them already. Maybe you will see another payment mode on the gen 2 models...

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September 19, 2013, 10:57:18 PM
 #10006

Ignored.  Asshat who thinks he's a know-it-all.  Joins such illustrious members on that ignore list as Kuroth, Vigil, Eve, bbxx, and atomichaos....

+1

ignored, asshat!

w2go LOL.

I didn't even say a word against KNC and these silly fanboys still start their play.
I should've listened to the guys who said BCT is these days filled with these kind of people, people who bring no value to the community.

FWIW, I think KNC will deliver but it'll be late.

Anduck,

The reaction you're receiving here is due to your question about anyone seeing a "working chip". Had you spent a few minutes reading KnC's website or this thread, you'd know that there will not be a working chip shown until they're ready to ship the finalized unit to customers (~12 days from now). Furthermore, you're probably the 20th person to ask that question in recent history. I think the participants of this thread are simply tired of the lack of effort put into research.

To make things worse, people like to use the "working chips" question as a way to troll everyone else. You may not have intended to act like a troll, but that's how others will perceive you.

They will need to have atleast few chips to test the chip itself. They must get a lot data from the actual chip - how can they ship a product to end-user that includes a chip that has only been simulated?
If they don't have chips to test yet, they will be late. Just like Bitfurys chip differed from the simulations kinda lot. Same with BFL. How would it be different with KNC? Really?

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September 19, 2013, 11:03:13 PM
 #10007

Ignored.  Asshat who thinks he's a know-it-all.  Joins such illustrious members on that ignore list as Kuroth, Vigil, Eve, bbxx, and atomichaos....

+1

ignored, asshat!

w2go LOL.

I didn't even say a word against KNC and these silly fanboys still start their play.
I should've listened to the guys who said BCT is these days filled with these kind of people, people who bring no value to the community.

FWIW, I think KNC will deliver but it'll be late.

Anduck,

The reaction you're receiving here is due to your question about anyone seeing a "working chip". Had you spent a few minutes reading KnC's website or this thread, you'd know that there will not be a working chip shown until they're ready to ship the finalized unit to customers (~12 days from now). Furthermore, you're probably the 20th person to ask that question in recent history. I think the participants of this thread are simply tired of the lack of effort put into research.

To make things worse, people like to use the "working chips" question as a way to troll everyone else. You may not have intended to act like a troll, but that's how others will perceive you.

They will need to have atleast few chips to test the chip itself. They must get a lot data from the actual chip - how can they ship a product to end-user that includes a chip that has only been simulated?
If they don't have chips to test yet, they will be late. Just like Bitfurys chip differed from the simulations kinda lot. Same with BFL. How would it be different with KNC? Really?

We of course don't know. However, their recent announcement that the chips do indeed hash faster than advertised would tend to indicate that they had sample chips to work with.

Also, both BFL and Bitfury (regardless of their morals, which seem to be on opposite poles) are essentially amateurs, whereas the KnC/OrSOC team are ASIC engineers. The only thing new to them on this, aside from the venture itself, is the Application that is Specific to the Integrated Circuit. Seasoned professionals generally get better results for the effort involved than amateurs. No offense intended toward Bitfury, as that is one TALENTED amateur.

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September 19, 2013, 11:07:06 PM
 #10008

Amateur...pro who cares. The bitfury chip is better than anything else out there at this time. This fact is not likely to change next month btw.

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September 20, 2013, 12:23:34 AM
 #10009

guess we shall see about that soon enough... 


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joae1975
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September 20, 2013, 12:40:56 AM
 #10010

KNC mentioned in Life On Bitcoin's latest video.

http://www.youtube.com/v/GMsHpaHP9f0

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September 20, 2013, 01:21:29 AM
 #10011

Amateur...pro who cares. The bitfury chip is better than anything else out there at this time. This fact is not likely to change next month btw.

But the price makes it prohibitive unfortunately!

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September 20, 2013, 01:33:18 AM
 #10012

But the price makes it prohibitive unfortunately!

How so?

I'd like it cheaper obviously, but it's actually confirmed working and therefore a better bet to ship on time next month. The cost difference between a bitfury 400Gh rig ordered today and a knc jupiter ordered months ago is negligible, though I realize EU & US prices may differ. 

I'm looking at a possible knc order for November delivery depending on how they handle shipping. If they knock it out the park like bitfury did then it'll be a viable alternative.

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September 20, 2013, 02:36:31 AM
 #10013

Seems to me to be the first truly reliably ASIC rig manufacturer. Gonna be busy aren't they? Smiley
Yeah,it seems it's gonna be an interesting few months and this is the first company to offer some real ASIC competition.

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September 20, 2013, 03:58:00 AM
 #10014

They will need to have atleast few chips to test the chip itself. They must get a lot data from the actual chip - how can they ship a product to end-user that includes a chip that has only been simulated?
If they don't have chips to test yet, they will be late. Just like Bitfurys chip differed from the simulations kinda lot. Same with BFL. How would it be different with KNC? Really?
Valid point, bad comparison. Bitfury is playing in it's own league, being full custom ASIC. And we all know BFL didn't have realistic expectations for their chips.

Existing standard cell designs:
110nm = 8W/Gh (AM)
65nm = 4W/Gh (BFL)
28nm = ??

KnC sits on the right spot with their estimate of 1.8W/Gh so if only their chips work they should be good Smiley

Calling Bitfury an amateur is pretty rude IMO. Because their 65nm = 0.9W/Gh. Grin
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September 20, 2013, 04:04:57 AM
 #10015

Seems to me to be the first truly reliably ASIC rig manufacturer. Gonna be busy aren't they? Smiley
Yeah,it seems it's gonna be an interesting few months and this is the first company to offer some real ASIC competition.

Right, because Bitfury have done nothing?.. except deliver ASICs, on time, that worked as promised and at a reasonable price.

I'm starting to get a Ford/Chevy rivalry vibe coming from the KnC fanclub (of which I'm a proud member).  It's surprising to me how few of the posters in this thread even acknowledge the Bitfury Group.  Is 55nm so beneath everyone?

If nothing else, Bitfury and (hopefully) KnC are head-and-shoulders above what we've been used to dealing with.  And I feel sorry for the late-comers such as Cointerra, HashFast, etc.  They're going to have a very difficult time finding a spot on the mountain next to the new gods of ASIC.
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September 20, 2013, 04:07:31 AM
 #10016

They will need to have atleast few chips to test the chip itself. They must get a lot data from the actual chip - how can they ship a product to end-user that includes a chip that has only been simulated?
If they don't have chips to test yet, they will be late. Just like Bitfurys chip differed from the simulations kinda lot. Same with BFL. How would it be different with KNC? Really?
Valid point, bad comparison. Bitfury is playing in it's own league, being full custom ASIC. And we all know BFL didn't have realisting expectations for their chips.

Existing standard cell designs:
110nm = 8Gh/W (AM)
65nm = 4Gh/W (BFL)
28nm = ??

KnC sits on the right spot with their estimate of 1.8Gh/W so if only their chips work they should be good Smiley

Calling Bitfury an amateur is pretty rude IMO.
BFL was a custom ASIC, and all your figures are wrong.

Avalon/AM 0.133GHs/W
BFL  0.157 GHs/Watt
KNC 0.8GHs/Watt
Bitfury 1GHs/Watt

Obviously if you overclock the figures will drop, and KNC say they have understated their performance, so it should be closer to Bitfury performance.



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September 20, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
 #10017

They will need to have atleast few chips to test the chip itself. They must get a lot data from the actual chip - how can they ship a product to end-user that includes a chip that has only been simulated?
If they don't have chips to test yet, they will be late. Just like Bitfurys chip differed from the simulations kinda lot. Same with BFL. How would it be different with KNC? Really?
Valid point, bad comparison. Bitfury is playing in it's own league, being full custom ASIC. And we all know BFL didn't have realistic expectations for their chips.

Existing standard cell designs:
110nm = 8W/Gh (AM)
65nm = 4W/Gh (BFL)
28nm = ??

KnC sits on the right spot with their estimate of 1.8W/Gh so if only their chips work they should be good Smiley

Calling Bitfury an amateur is pretty rude IMO. Because their 65nm = 0.9W/Gh. Grin

Bitfury 55nm = .9W/GH

How can KnC not be less than that with a process size 50% of Bitfury's chip?  Hopefully the simulations are wrong and KnC will over-deliver.

But I guess this bodes well for Bitfury ver.2.0.  Wink

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September 20, 2013, 04:18:52 AM
 #10018

They will need to have atleast few chips to test the chip itself. They must get a lot data from the actual chip - how can they ship a product to end-user that includes a chip that has only been simulated?
If they don't have chips to test yet, they will be late. Just like Bitfurys chip differed from the simulations kinda lot. Same with BFL. How would it be different with KNC? Really?
Valid point, bad comparison. Bitfury is playing in it's own league, being full custom ASIC. And we all know BFL didn't have realistic expectations for their chips.

Existing standard cell designs:
110nm = 8W/Gh (AM)
65nm = 4W/Gh (BFL)
28nm = ??

KnC sits on the right spot with their estimate of 1.8W/Gh so if only their chips work they should be good Smiley

Calling Bitfury an amateur is pretty rude IMO. Because their 65nm = 0.9W/Gh. Grin

Wasn't intended to be rude, he said it himself that he had never designed an ASIC before.

I think that says a lot about the talent and dedication of the man, actually.

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September 20, 2013, 04:22:28 AM
 #10019

So a question to the resident experts: If they are right on schedule and everything goes without a hitch, how long is it going to take them to slice/dice/package 10,000 or 20,000 quad-core processors?
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September 20, 2013, 04:31:08 AM
 #10020

Using ultrasonic soldering, assembly of flip-chip packages can hit 20,000 per hour.  20K chips hardly warms up the machines - it's a very short order to be running...
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