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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007125 times)
Nemo1024
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September 26, 2013, 10:10:06 AM
 #10841

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  Wink

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

If your return on your investment is less than what you initially invested, then you have a negative ROI.
If equal, then you reached a break-even point.
If more, then you attained a positive return on your investment.

Next time someone talks or tries to write about "not reaching ROI", stop and think. Think specifically of those yellow long bendy fruit everyone calls apples in your tribe (never mind that the rest of the world calls them bananas).

#101Life
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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September 26, 2013, 10:15:33 AM
 #10842

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  Wink

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

If your return on your investment is less than what you initially invested, then you have a negative ROI.
If equal, then you reached a break-even point.
If more, then you attained a positive return on your investment.

Next time someone talks or tries to write about "not reaching ROI", stop and think. Think specifically of those yellow long bendy fruit everyone calls apples in your tribe (never mind that the rest of the world calls them bananas).

In my tribe, if i ask for bananas, i'm sure to get an apple, therein lies the rub.  Wut do Huh
Edit:  Now that you corrected my tribe, my life is chaos. ~Half of the people started using your "correct," intertribal terminology.  No matter what i ask for, what i get's a total crapshoot.
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September 26, 2013, 10:27:54 AM
 #10843

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  Wink

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

If your return on your investment is less than what you initially invested, then you have a negative ROI.
If equal, then you reached a break-even point.
If more, then you attained a positive return on your investment.

Next time someone talks or tries to write about "not reaching ROI", stop and think. Think specifically of those yellow long bendy fruit everyone calls apples in your tribe (never mind that the rest of the world calls them bananas).

Please reread what I wrote, there was not a word wrong in it and I will keep using ROI the way I want to thank you. I get tired of you people constantly trying to correct everyone supposedly using ROI in the wrong way, when there's actually nothing wrong with it but you're just too anally retentive to see that.

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
btc_uzr
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September 26, 2013, 10:39:59 AM
 #10844

Stop it, please. Don't you read 10 pages back ?
We had this ROI crap now several times over and over.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg3233182#msg3233182

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
nightengale
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September 26, 2013, 10:40:21 AM
 #10845

I don't post very frequently on this thread, but KnC should probably come up with some news pretty quick. The FUD is getting pretty deep here on bitcointalk, and if ROI is becoming more elusive with their machines I don't they'll be able to make it any better than we will.
demonmaestro
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Mining for the hell of it.


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September 26, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
 #10846

Well so far if you want an update.. here you go. Every day there is about 10 pages of crap. everyday.  Shocked Why cant everyone just chill and wait to see what happens?

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AussieHash
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September 26, 2013, 10:43:27 AM
 #10847

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/40083c6e43

jupiter with hosting
90BTC
not looking good...

- 48btc

Could be worse, could be this guy
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292998.msg3143055#msg3143055
thy
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September 26, 2013, 10:48:47 AM
 #10848

Welcome to the world class thinkers, "I can get something for nothing" crowd...


It's not me supporting the guys at the TOP of the PYRAMID! - Not anymore!
So, who is working for the "dark side"? Well, those funding the preorders for the ASIC Companies, who will make THEM Millionaires while making all of you SLAVES, hashing at a fraction of the capacity you bought into, while GIVING ENERGY, (FORCE) to those WHO CONTROL YOU!

For me, No thanks!
I retook my power from the evil dark side of ASIC mining companies.  Cool


My feelings exactly - ASICs opened the doors to the worst scams of them all - this was never possible in the GPU days -
everybody had access to real hardware vendors, not these these wannabe pretenders.  The verdict on KNC is still out,
I did consider them back in May, but decided against it when they pulled the plug on the FPGA Litecoin miner.
Instead I decided to pursue the Avalon group-buy DIY route - with a reputable organizer (Zefir) - well at least I received
a full refund from Zefir - thank you again.

At this time it does not make sense to buy any mining product, especially a pre-order, as all ASIC manufacturers use their
profits to mine, or even worse, use your pre-ordered equipment to mine (Avalon). and then don't even have the decency
to clean them up, before finally shipping them to their customers.

I am not saying that KNC is like Avalon, but their September shipping date is already moved at best to September 30, if
this month at all.
 Remember, every ASIC manufacturer is above all else your competition in this game, and they hold
the upper hand.  Angry
They still got thursday friday and monday to ship, if they work weekends to, two more days so they could still deliver before 30 sept.

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September 26, 2013, 10:54:45 AM
 #10849

pfuuu...seems like most are missing a tiny but very important fact when shouting at each other, which could relax the whole situation dramatically.

Please consider there are several kind of people involved.
Not all are in the same position, we all are individuals keep it in mind before starting the next fight.

1) ppl who do not care that much about ROI, some have fun mining and to be part of the cryptocoin movement....


Some fun paying 5000$ so that drug dealers and gamblers can have a safer payment system. I'm sure most people could find better hobbies than that. Like getting drunk on a weekend and spending what's left on a pair of russian hookers. Both hobbies result in a same financial loss, but one leaves you with memories of awesomeness while the other pretty much sums up to..well..nothing.

[url = https: //bitcointalk.org/index.php? topic = 2159012.0] ⚡ Semux ● Free Airdrop ● NO ICO ● Первый Java-based BFT Blockchain [/ center]
thy
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September 26, 2013, 10:59:31 AM
 #10850

I don't want to be pessimistic, but here are some facts:

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-36
We will update this news site as often as we can with news. - Nothing new last 9 days?
We will even have some videos this week from our Swedish assembly factory - I saw 10 sec long video with PCB without chip this week. Where are "videos from assembly factory" from last week?
The first chips off of the production line we will run at full speed in our launch video - We are 3 working days (5 days) from deadline. Where is launch video of working unit?

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-34
Firstly, our orders for September delivery are now closed - I think, that there is a difference between shipping date and delivery date. Yes, KNC promise delivery of unit until September. - they have to process 1st day of shipping until Saturday and 2nd day of shipping until Sunday.

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-32
Finally we wish to confirm that yes we are still on track for our delivery towards the end of September. - delivery not shipping (again)

@fanclub: there are just facts, you don't need to advocate KNC now.
I think they said they were on a tight schedule, hopefully they will get there ASICs out as scheduled, but one could guess that they will have a video up on the first device running probably the day before first shipping date or maby even the same day just a few hours before they ship, who knows ?

It woulden't be supprising if they are going to work weekends to during the first batches 15-20 days or so shipping windows, but even if they dont they still have thursday, friday and monday to start the delivery on.
Im pretty sure there should be people in Sweden on day 1 that should get there device the same day it's shipped if the first days delivery is sent early in the morning and some people in Sweden(and probably some from other country's to) that bought at least 5-10 machines or so will probably go and pick up there machines in person at KnC's place in Stockholm on there shippmentdate(to earn another 1-2k usd value in extra mined btc's) if there resonably early in the delievery order, so if they send out there first 500 or so day 1 devices even on monday morning there should be people that get there devices up and working in September...

btc_uzr
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September 26, 2013, 11:02:31 AM
 #10851

pfuuu...seems like most are missing a tiny but very important fact when shouting at each other, which could relax the whole situation dramatically.

Please consider there are several kind of people involved.
Not all are in the same position, we all are individuals keep it in mind before starting the next fight.

1) ppl who do not care that much about ROI, some have fun mining and to be part of the cryptocoin movement....


Some fun paying 5000$ so that drug dealers and gamblers can have a safer payment system. I'm sure most people could find better hobbies than that. Like getting drunk on a weekend and spending what's left on a pair of russian hookers. Both hobbies result in a same financial loss, but one leaves you with memories of awesomeness while the other pretty much sums up to..well..nothing.

If you state that btc is about drugs, gambling and other illegal shit only, you have proven not to be well informed, you do not have the tiniest clue about its nature, structure, services in place, acceptance, etc.

Some of my friends work at Porsche and earn good money. They considered spending some hundred euros on an idea which could change the world....just for fun.
In case you do not know, BTC is not anonymous...fiat is anonymous and being used for crimes of all kind...even faked cash exists

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
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September 26, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
 #10852

It also only takes one click to get your browser hit by a fly-by zeroday attack...

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
Nemo1024
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September 26, 2013, 11:28:59 AM
 #10853

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI Wink


#101Life
Save Donbass

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
Rampion
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September 26, 2013, 11:31:29 AM
 #10854

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, an by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



Wink



Let's hope that a simple image make this very simple finance concept to stick in the heads of illiterate bitcoin miners.


tolip_wen
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September 26, 2013, 11:41:01 AM
 #10855

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI Wink



It is quite common within subcultures for the meaning of words to be preverted.

Not much you can do once they take root.


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The Avenger
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September 26, 2013, 11:48:22 AM
 #10856

There should be a specific measure for bitcoin.

Clawing back what you invested on mining equipment = Return on Bitcoin = ROB

If you make your money back, you were not ROB'd  Grin

"I am not The Avenger"
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Miz4r
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September 26, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
 #10857

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI Wink

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'. Get this simple fact through your head please, I'm sure you're smart enough to understand it.

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
Nemo1024
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September 26, 2013, 11:53:35 AM
 #10858

The Avenger, brilliant suggestion!  Grin
It will also make explicit that independent of the exchange rate, you should return all the BTC that you invested before breaking even.

@Miz4r: Ok, I give up. When travelling to work today I covered a distance of 15km/h. See what I did there? Wink The pedantic scientist part of me slowly bleeds when I see people abuse units of measurement...

I invest 15 BTC into a miner. It earns 10 BTC by the end of its life. I've made a ROI! But I have not broken even.

ROI = (10-15)/15 = -0.333

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'.

No, you can't be "making or achieving ROI" in the sense of reaching a certain threshold. What you can do is to "make" or "get" some ROI, which can be any value between -Inf and +Inf.

#101Life
Save Donbass

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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September 26, 2013, 11:57:23 AM
 #10859

Yep, everyone is on tenderhooks, and it's difficult to make people relax a little.

Oh, and by the way, a very good article, highly recommended: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp



In other words, you don't make a ROI in much the same way that you don't make GH/s. ROI is a performance measurement. Now I'm done with the topic of ROI Wink

Look everybody knows this formula already, but your conclusion makes no sense whatsoever. You can absolutely make a Return on your Investment, saying that's incorrect because there's a formula behind those words is just silly. When people talk about 'making or achieving ROI' they obviously mean positive ROI as negative or 0 ROI is not a 'Return on your Investment'. Get this simple fact through your head please, I'm sure you're smart enough to understand it.

+1  We'll use "making ROI" however we choose to use it, thanks...


Ummm.   Tried to change the shipping address for my Jupiters.  Received this response:



As we are very close to the production date, all October orders have been finalized and sent for production.
 
The shipping addresses have been forwarded to UPS and registered in the system for shipping. Therefore, any changes of orders cannot be accepted.
 
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate in contacting us.
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer

www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

AussieHash
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September 26, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
 #10860

Repost - best reddit comment in a long time
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1mgh0s/well_despite_all_the_talk_of_never_seeing_a_roi_i/cc91870
Quote from: historian1111
People need to STOP using fiat exchange rates to calculate mining profitability. Doesn't matter if you use USD/EUR/YEN/POUNDS.
Think about what you're actually doing when you buy a mining device. You are buying a machine that does one thing and one thing ONLY, it makes bitcoins. Infact, for all intents and purposes, it only makes a finite amount of bitcoins.
If you are smart, you can calculate how many bitcoins your miner is likely to ever make. If you buy a miner for 100BTC, and it only mines 90BTC, then you have lost 10BTC.
Now heres the trick that manufacturers do to rip off the uninformed. They have calculated that the miner will only make 90BTC, so instead of plugging it in and running it for a year or so, they try to sell you the miner for 100BTC! Not only do they get 10BTC more, but they get their return right away. (The time value of money is also valuable)
So instead of selling the miner to you at 100BTC, they just say '$10,000' (assuming the exchange rate was $100/btc). This tricks most people into trying to worry about what the future exchange rate is. But its actually irrelevant!
Why? Because with your $10,000 you could buy 100BTC right now on an exchange, instead of buying a miner that will only return 90BTC to you. So, you're effectively paying $10,000/90 = $111 per BTC instead of $100 per BTC. You just got ripped off.
When you buy a miner that does not ROI in BTC terms, you are basically paying a higher exchange rate then you can get today on MTGOX.
Another way to look at is, is imagine that I tell you to send me 100BTC or $10,000, and in return i'll give you 90BTC back. Only an idiot would say "don't worry, even though i got 90BTC back, i'll make up for it when the exchange rate goes up! " You're still missing out on 10BTC that you would have if you just bought on MTGOX!
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