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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007986 times)
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September 15, 2013, 11:32:48 AM
 #9361

I imagine we'd be up to Bitcoin V3 or V4 before Intel would get interested.
Current Bitcoin couldn't scale anywhere near the size required.

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September 15, 2013, 11:36:59 AM
 #9362

I heard some stuff about Intel releasing 14nm tech a while back and if things keep on as they have done lately I'd not bet against them coming to a rig near you soon...

Bitcoin market cap: ~1.5 Billion USD
Intel market cap: ~110 Billion USD

I think Bitcoin still has a long way to go to become interesting for the likes of Intel. And should that day ever come their 14nm tech is going to be the least of my worries Wink

the $17 million that HashFast and Cointerra have (supposedly) made in pre-orders isn't nothing. Intel makes lots of chips, not just desktop CPUs but lots of ASICs as well.

Back when SSDs were starting to get popular Intel came out with their own, and it performed way better then anything else on the market - not because the flash memory was any better, but because the ASIC they used to interface the flash to SATA was so much better. Other drives were fast for the most part, but would randomly lag under typical desktop usage (where tons of little files, like dlls and registry keys need to be read and written too constantly)

Turns out, Intel looked at the available controllers, decided they all sucked, and just made their own. Now that SSD controllers are a lot better, Intel doesn't make them any more.

Of course, I doubt that little asic was made at their smallest process node. And from what I understand development costs go up significantly the smaller you go.  However my guess is that for Intel those costs might not be as high, since they'll likely have all the software, test equipment, and so on available right away.

And, of course, they have their own fabs. Which means that, not only do they not need to deal with third party companies to interface with the fabs, as most bitcoin ASIC people have had to do, access to things like spots on multi-project wafers should be easy to get, even on short notice. 

It would depend on what kind of resources they want to spend on it - but given the time sensitive nature Intel could do things like kick existing slots off of wafer runs to get test chips and so on.


Difference being, SSDs were upcoming consumer grade hardware, while specialized Bitcoin mining rigs are still more of a fringe phenomena in a highly speculative market.

It was definitely in Intel's interest to push / improve the PC market, while Bitcoin ASICs might not fit as well in their agenda.

However the market cap argument doesn't hold up entirely, I'll give you that.

Either way, I doubt that Intel will enter the mining rig market before Bitcoin's mainstream adoption significantly improves. It's an interesting thought though.

Missed the point there. I didn't think Intel were interested in ASICs, but ASIC peeps will definitely be interested in 14nm and sooner rather than later they'll appear....and off we'll all go again. Also, it's happened before that guys from these huge corporations involved in the ASIC development have jumped ship into mining manufacturing companies.

If and when this happens and 14nm is the new kid in town...up goes that network hashrate again in a big way.
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September 15, 2013, 12:38:35 PM
 #9363

Cut a small metal paper clip in half ... 2c ?
I always used the 'insulated' metallic twist tie that comes with the power cords. Thats what thats for, right?

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September 15, 2013, 01:13:30 PM
 #9364

If they sell chips alone only, it could be done...

Well, the joke is you still have to supply your own PSU. And not only that, you'll also need to supply your own power supply on switch since the miner won't do it itself, apparently.



Oh please for the love of all that is holy just don't!!!  The alternative:




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September 15, 2013, 01:42:41 PM
 #9365

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 
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September 15, 2013, 02:04:03 PM
 #9366

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.
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September 15, 2013, 02:13:17 PM
 #9367

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.
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September 15, 2013, 02:14:00 PM
 #9368

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

If it's not it'll be only by a day. 2 weeks from Fri 13th is 27th. That touches on a weekend though, unless they can deliver Sat, Mon is the 30th, 1st is the Tues. I hate any mention of two weeks now mind, it evokes a queasy reaction for anyone on this forum now, but then that's where we currently are at this moment in time lol. Lips sealed

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September 15, 2013, 02:15:01 PM
 #9369

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars, and most of the promised network for this period hasn't made it online. They are likely at this point in time to make back most of their money before the Nov shipment, and why would anyone choose to pay the VAT over setting up a small business and offsetting the hardware and electricity cost/hosting as part of that business?

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September 15, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
 #9370

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars, and most of the promised network for this period hasn't made it online.

It is nice to see Bfl Inaba there Smiley

If chips will be ready at next couple of weeks, so 27 sept + 5 days transport/customs + few days production + few days shipping/customs to customer it gives half october...

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/eba06acabb

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=10000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=0.1&btcusd=131.52&dpowcon=650&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.20&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calc#
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September 15, 2013, 02:32:56 PM
 #9371

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars, and most of the promised network for this period hasn't made it online.

It is nice to see Bfl Inaba there Smiley

If chips will be ready at next couple of weeks, so 27 sept + 5 days transport/customs + few days production + few days shipping/customs to customer it gives half october...

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/eba06acabb

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=10000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=0.1&btcusd=131.52&dpowcon=650&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.20&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calc#

Why are you using a price of $10k that no one should be paying? Either they come from a country without a VAT requirement, or they should be able to claim it as well as the VAT in their elec costs back by simply registering as a business. As well as their phone line, broadband and any associated hardware they could deem a necessary business expense.

Secondly why are you using calcs that rely on the network hashrates to infinitely double in size month on month? That scenario cannot feasibly occur.

I'm all for constructive arguments, but please apply some logic.

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September 15, 2013, 02:33:14 PM
 #9372

...
Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars, and most of the promised network for this period hasn't made it online. They are likely at this point in time to make back most of their money before the Nov shipment, and why would anyone choose to pay the VAT over setting up a small business and offsetting the hardware and electricity cost/hosting as part of that business?

Everything's going online just as planned.  Ghash.io *alone* is hashing at just a hair under what the *total network speed* was when Jupiters were ordered.  The network speed is now a bit over 1PH, with difficulty rates being:
30 Day   122 %
60 Day   330 %
90 Day   516 %
This is all happening with *just one* new player shipping -- Bitfury.  

I'm not even going to touch the "but i paid with fiat" argument -- it's been shot down enough.
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September 15, 2013, 02:36:57 PM
 #9373

I don't think difficulty will keep going up, it has to plateau at some point soon.

Many of the hardware mfg are late, or not delivering or turning out to be scams.
Many of the mining companies were relying on this hardware to make money that isn't happening now.

By the time most of them do deliver it will be like delivering usb miners...totally uneconomical.
It doesn't matter who is delivering in Dec/Jan, unless their hardware is 10x more powerful and 1/10 the cost.

All that matters at this point is getting hardware and getting it as early as possible.
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September 15, 2013, 02:46:10 PM
 #9374

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars

no. I paid over 85BTC for Jupiter (with VAT and shipping) via BitPay. I also paid for PSU (220$). so now I have to mine at least 85BTC to get my investment back + pay for electricity (0.25$/kW).

do you think that I will get my BTC back and earn something, if I will start mining last day of September? You have got here answer for every question, so please answer this.) thanks.
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September 15, 2013, 02:53:58 PM
 #9375

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars

no. I paid over 85BTC for Jupiter (with VAT and shipping) via BitPay. I also paid for PSU (220$). so now I have to mine at least 85BTC to get my investment back + pay for electricity (0.25$/kW).

do you think that I will get my BTC back and earn something, if I will start mining last day of September? You have got here answer for every question, so please answer this.) thanks.

Maybe.

It's all a gamble really.
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September 15, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
 #9376

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars, and most of the promised network for this period hasn't made it online.

It is nice to see Bfl Inaba there Smiley

If chips will be ready at next couple of weeks, so 27 sept + 5 days transport/customs + few days production + few days shipping/customs to customer it gives half october...

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/eba06acabb

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=10000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=0.1&btcusd=131.52&dpowcon=650&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.20&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calc#

Why are you using a price of $10k that no one should be paying? Either they come from a country without a VAT requirement, or they should be able to claim it as well as the VAT in their elec costs back by simply registering as a business. As well as their phone line, broadband and any associated hardware they could deem a necessary business expense.

Secondly why are you using calcs that rely on the network hashrates to infinitely double in size month on month? That scenario cannot feasibly occur.

I'm all for constructive arguments, but please apply some logic.

Yap, business deduct VAT (better to say pay it, then later deduct it from future vat obligations) but business has to pay income tax (my country 20%) and carry other expenses.There is room not to declare all the income, although harder in some country. I believe your income is (gross) when you sell minend btc and fiat goes to your bank account. All the expenses linked to that exchanged btc and mining is overall expenses.

Of course, its different when somebody uses company registered on some other things and buy miner as their hardware asset.

edit
I'am acountant and tax expert. I did some inqury with my country tax agency (EU) and found out how mining business should make books legal and to comply with laws and regulations.
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September 15, 2013, 03:07:54 PM
 #9377

I don't think difficulty will keep going up, it has to plateau at some point soon.

LOL."Soon" as in in when difficulty approaches 100 billion, no sooner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286126.msg3143855#msg3143855

As long as difficulty is well below that point, the mining potential/market value of 28nm asics exceeds their variable production cost,  and so one way or another,  more will be produced and added to the network, limited only by how fast they can be produced and shipped.

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September 15, 2013, 03:33:46 PM
 #9378


 Did anyone made the joke about 'swedish' asic miners comes in parts and you have to build them yourself because it is 'cheaper' that way?

If they sell chips alone only, it could be done...

Well, the joke is you still have to supply your own PSU. And not only that, you'll also need to supply your own power supply on switch since the miner won't do it itself, apparently.
Wouldn't a power supply tester with an on/off button be a nice, clean version of this? e.g. http://dx.com/p/pc-computer-atx-power-supply-tester-with-on-off-switch-black-132273


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September 15, 2013, 03:37:57 PM
 #9379

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

To be honest that doesnt sound like september delivery to me.

Come on it is just two weeks...
People paid for jupiters about 100 bitcoins with vat, when network speed was 180TH/s, now 1PH

They will get back around 50% btc in next few months

After knc 1 batch, network will achieve 4PH or more, so people from the end of october will get back 30% or less.

November batch 2 pricing is not profitable at all.

No they didn't they paid for a product priced in dollars, and most of the promised network for this period hasn't made it online. They are likely at this point in time to make back most of their money before the Nov shipment, and why would anyone choose to pay the VAT over setting up a small business and offsetting the hardware and electricity cost/hosting as part of that business?

Not to hijack the thread but the VAT (value added tax is it?), is it applicable to US buyers?  I thought not, but of course there's no reason to think the poster is from the US.



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September 15, 2013, 03:42:15 PM
 #9380

This from KnC forum:


vfxminer commented
13th September 2013, 07:29 AM
I spoke to kncminer yesterday. The chips are in the final stages of production in taiwan. soon as they are ready they will be flown over in the next couple of weeks ready for production end of September. This month cannot go fast enough for me. ..


http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/712-expected-delivery-of-asic-chips/page2
 

If chips will be ready at next couple of weeks, so 27 sept + 5 days transport/customs + few days production + few days shipping/customs to customer it gives half october...

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/eba06acabb

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=10000&diff_mincrease=30&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=400000&diff_mincreasedecrease=0.1&btcusd=131.52&dpowcon=650&btcusd_mincrease=3&pcost=0.20&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calc#

That btcinvest calculator is wrong, it assumes 12 day difficulty cycles when they should be 10.7

This is the best calculator.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=273264.msg3098039#msg3098039
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