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Bitcoinorama
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April 28, 2013, 06:48:05 PM |
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Isn't the Mars supposed to be available in "days"? Then now is the time to speculate.
I registered my interest in the Mars, and had they taken my money last week, I would have snapped it up. But looking at all those orders for Avalon ASICs by the DIYers, the landscape looks different. The genie is out of the bottle, and I'm reluctant to invest in anything beyond a 2 month ROI now.
Even at today's difficulty Mars would be a 2 month ROI. That's not happening if Butterfly arrive in that duration of time, let alone more Avalon and DIYers Sorry Pizza, I catch your drift, but FlappySock's comment was concurrent with today's sp. |
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HjerterEss
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April 28, 2013, 06:57:25 PM |
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All of the comments are based on flawed logic. They all assume higher difficulty at the same bitcoin price which is retarded.
The price of bitcoin could very well increase to $500,$750,$1000,$1000+ so arguing anything about profitability is just insane as there are so many variables.
Since when was Bitcoin price based on difficulty? You really think that $500 let alone $1000 range is plausible? Isn't the Mars supposed to be available in "days"? Then now is the time to speculate.
I registered my interest in the Mars, and had they taken my money last week, I would have snapped it up. But looking at all those orders for Avalon ASICs by the DIYers, the landscape looks different. The genie is out of the bottle, and I'm reluctant to invest in anything beyond a 2 month ROI now.
Even at today's difficulty Mars would be a 2 month ROI. That's not happening if Butterfly arrive in that duration of time, let alone more Avalon and DIYers Sorry Pizza, I catch your drift, but FlappySock's comment was concurrent with today's sp. Yup thats what I fear the most. All those who have ordered so many Avalon chips and make their own devices. We see news about Jalapenos reaching customers each day now. BFL already showcased the finished 50GH/s miner, ready to be built and shipped to customers kncminer got nothing, other than some simple drawing on their website. |
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Bitcoinorama
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April 28, 2013, 06:59:06 PM |
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All of the comments are based on flawed logic. They all assume higher difficulty at the same bitcoin price which is retarded.
The price of bitcoin could very well increase to $500,$750,$1000,$1000+ so arguing anything about profitability is just insane as there are so many variables.
Since when was Bitcoin price based on difficulty? You really think that $500 let alone $1000 range is plausible? I think Spain, France and Italy all have enough upcoming news to accelerate the value of bitcoin and that's without taking the US into account. Although I'm not suggesting in the realms mentioned, although I'm not dismissing that fact either. Bitcoin needs to become a little less volatile and a lot more merchant focused and adopted. |
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HjerterEss
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April 28, 2013, 07:00:51 PM |
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All of the comments are based on flawed logic. They all assume higher difficulty at the same bitcoin price which is retarded.
The price of bitcoin could very well increase to $500,$750,$1000,$1000+ so arguing anything about profitability is just insane as there are so many variables.
Since when was Bitcoin price based on difficulty? You really think that $500 let alone $1000 range is plausible? I think Spain, France and Italy all have enough upcoming news to accelerate the value of bitcoin and that's without taking the US into account. More PR for Bitcoin means price skyrocketing? How does that work out? Ditch real money, mine Bitcoins and get 10x as much value? |
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Bitcoinorama
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April 28, 2013, 07:03:41 PM |
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More PR for Bitcoin means price skyrocketing? How does that work out? Ditch real money, mine Bitcoins and get 10x as much value?
[/quote]
Not PR for bitcoins, negative press for the Euro and the Dollar. Bernanke's claim he won't qunatitive ease again is an outright lie, and France and Spain pose massive problems in Europe. France hasn't even entered discussion yet.
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FlappySocks
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April 28, 2013, 07:06:56 PM |
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available for actual pre order in days with a little over 2 month actual delivery date.
Oh ok, I must have misread that then. I thought the first 500 was to be delivered sooner than that. I'm definitely out then. I will wait for my DIY order to arrive. |
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pizza
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April 28, 2013, 07:07:37 PM |
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Well if you take history as a guiding stone. The difficulty is much higher today than it was a year ago and the price is 2000%+ higher, if the same trend continues it would put bitcoin at $1,000 a coin. All of a sudden everyone could lose confidence in bitcoin and the price can plunge to where it becomes unprofitable or it can increase and stay highly profitable. The point is predicting profitability is retarded and you never will.
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Bitcoinorama
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April 28, 2013, 07:13:30 PM |
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Well if you take history as a guiding stone. The difficulty is much higher today than it was a year ago and the price is 2000%+ higher, if the same trend continues it would put bitcoin at $1,000 a coin. All of a sudden everyone could lose confidence in bitcoin and the price can plunge to where it becomes unprofitable or it can increase and stay highly profitable. The point is predicting profitability is retarded and you never will.
Pizza with all due respect, the price is significantly higher now because of the sudden mainstream media attention bringing Bitcoin into the public domain. Predominantly the last 2-3months. The recent 'bubble' was due to feverous new speculators getting burned. I'm still not confident bitcoin has settled pricewise. I doubt the 'trend' will continue as exponentially unless there are significant milestones or news that bitcoin can react positively to and justifies an increase in value aside speculation. What is guaranteed to increase exponentially is difficulty. |
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pizza
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April 28, 2013, 07:17:30 PM |
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More PR for Bitcoin means price skyrocketing? How does that work out? Ditch real money, mine Bitcoins and get 10x as much value?
Not PR for bitcoins, negative press for the Euro and the Dollar. Bernanke's claim he won't qunatitive ease again is an outright lie, and France and Spain pose massive problems in Europe. France hasn't even entered discussion yet. [/quote] Speaking in terms of price. Bitcoin is designed to be a deflationary currency, where it's price always increases as there is a limited supply. Then you have all the turmoil with fiat currently going on which adds to price appreciation. Lastly, this doesn't mean anything, but when you have the founders of Facebook the Winklevoss twins seriously backing bitcoin also, it is just good for bitcoin. If these guys were smart enough to create the idea of facebook a billion dollar company, then they must see something in bitcoin also, and this is the smallest thing that bitcoin has going for itself. The biggest are it's own price appreciating deflationary design and world marco economic issues. The world's financial system is on the brink of financial collapse, people will wish it was only like 2007. Have people buy a currency which they know in the long term it's future value is only up, this will turn into a feeding frenzy for bitcoin, and you have a perfect recipe for massive price appreciation. The bubble hasn't even begun yet. |
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pizza
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April 28, 2013, 07:20:20 PM |
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Well if you take history as a guiding stone. The difficulty is much higher today than it was a year ago and the price is 2000%+ higher, if the same trend continues it would put bitcoin at $1,000 a coin. All of a sudden everyone could lose confidence in bitcoin and the price can plunge to where it becomes unprofitable or it can increase and stay highly profitable. The point is predicting profitability is retarded and you never will.
Pizza with all due respect, the price is significantly higher now because of the sudden mainstream media attention bringing Bitcoin into the public domain. Predominantly the last 2-3months. The recent 'bubble' was due to feverous new speculators getting burned. I'm still not confident bitcoin has settled pricewise. I doubt the 'trend' will continue as exponentially unless there are significant milestones or news that bitcoin can react positively to and justifies an increase in value aside speculation. What is guaranteed to increase exponentially is difficulty. I'm not saying that "pure" difficulty in itself is the cause of higher prices. I'm saying the rise in difficulty means more people are getting involved in bitcoin. Higher difficulty encompasses media attention, and many other factors. It just seems that the correlation is higher difficulty which includes all the many factors discussed = a higher bitcoin price. |
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FlappySocks
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April 28, 2013, 07:30:39 PM |
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I agree with pizza that price could well go much much higher, based on big names getting involved. Paypal, Weston Union, Amazon. I wouldn't bet my house on it mind.
Mining for profit however is going to be changed forever once the DIYers are up and running. The only way to make money in selling mining hardware will now be in developing the next generation of ASICs that are on an order of magnitude better than the existing ASICs.
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Bitcoinorama
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April 28, 2013, 07:55:45 PM |
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I'm not saying that "pure" difficulty in itself is the cause of higher prices. I'm saying the rise in difficulty means more people are getting involved in bitcoin. Higher difficulty encompasses media attention, and many other factors. It just seems that the correlation is higher difficulty which includes all the many factors discussed = a higher bitcoin price.
Agreed, but for all intensive purposes, KNCminer have to assume today's price is likely to be a determining factor for future consideration when purchasing their products, and they absolutely cannot ignore the effect of BFL and Avalon getting their products to market, including the effect 10's if not 100's of thousands of bulk Avalon chips in the hands of technically savvy and very motivated DIYers. I believe in Bitcoin and alternative cryptocurrencies and what they stand for. I don't deny their FPGA is yet another technological achievement, but believe there are other avenues they could and should adapt that FPGA design as opposed to solely Bitcoin to enable a proportionately better return on investment to their customers, especially any early adopters that support them in this endeavour. Such as Litecoin. I agree with FlappySocks' penultimate post with the above taken into account, realistically with the proposed volitality of new tech entering the market and the disruptive influence that will have on Bitcoin's difficulty any devices have to at the very least aim to return ROI within a two month timeframe, that won't happen with 6 Gh/s FPGA now. This as much as secures the network, has to be focused upon being a profitable venture as we are investors as well as enthusiasts! |
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pizza
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April 29, 2013, 01:15:13 AM |
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I'm not saying that "pure" difficulty in itself is the cause of higher prices. I'm saying the rise in difficulty means more people are getting involved in bitcoin. Higher difficulty encompasses media attention, and many other factors. It just seems that the correlation is higher difficulty which includes all the many factors discussed = a higher bitcoin price.
Agreed, but for all intensive purposes, KNCminer have to assume today's price is likely to be a determining factor for future consideration when purchasing their products, and they absolutely cannot ignore the effect of BFL and Avalon getting their products to market, including the effect 10's if not 100's of thousands of bulk Avalon chips in the hands of technically savvy and very motivated DIYers. I believe in Bitcoin and alternative cryptocurrencies and what they stand for. I don't deny their FPGA is yet another technological achievement, but believe there are other avenues they could and should adapt that FPGA design as opposed to solely Bitcoin to enable a proportionately better return on investment to their customers, especially any early adopters that support them in this endeavour. Such as Litecoin. I agree with FlappySocks' penultimate post with the above taken into account, realistically with the proposed volitality of new tech entering the market and the disruptive influence that will have on Bitcoin's difficulty any devices have to at the very least aim to return ROI within a two month timeframe, that won't happen with 6 Gh/s FPGA now. This as much as secures the network, has to be focused upon being a profitable venture as we are investors as well as enthusiasts! ohh yeah you can forget about the 6gh FPGA providing a 2 month ROI. I was speaking of their Jupiter Unit I think it will still be extremely profitable when it hits the market assuming an August the latest ship date. A lot of the DIY Avalon chips will probably take that long If not longer to ship also anyway. Avalon still hasn't shipped batch #2. I'm sure there will probably be delays in ordering thousands of chips, having people receive their share of chips, having DIYers built boards, shipping those boards back to people. And even if all those things happen and KNC does ship along side with them, I think the Jupiter will provide a nice 2mo ROI worst case given it's massive 250gh power if not more by the time they tweak it. Only thing to do is wait and see what KNC announces. Then go from there. |
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Bitcoinorama
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April 29, 2013, 01:28:09 AM |
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The FPGA would break even if KNC asked ORSoC to create an FPGA with DDR3 memory and have it mine Litecoin scrypt.
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dan99
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April 29, 2013, 04:33:45 AM |
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well, waiting for them to lower down their price, nothing interest us other than the price and their delivery schedule..
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sickpig
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April 29, 2013, 02:36:36 PM
Last edit: April 29, 2013, 04:15:57 PM by sickpig |
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I'm not saying that "pure" difficulty in itself is the cause of higher prices. I'm saying the rise in difficulty means more people are getting involved in bitcoin. Higher difficulty encompasses media attention, and many other factors. It just seems that the correlation is higher difficulty which includes all the many factors discussed = a higher bitcoin price.
Agreed, but for all intensive purposes, KNCminer have to assume today's price is likely to be a determining factor for future consideration when purchasing their products, and they absolutely cannot ignore the effect of BFL and Avalon getting their products to market, including the effect 10's if not 100's of thousands of bulk Avalon chips in the hands of technically savvy and very motivated DIYers. I believe in Bitcoin and alternative cryptocurrencies and what they stand for. I don't deny their FPGA is yet another technological achievement, but believe there are other avenues they could and should adapt that FPGA design as opposed to solely Bitcoin to enable a proportionately better return on investment to their customers, especially any early adopters that support them in this endeavour. Such as Litecoin. I agree with FlappySocks' penultimate post with the above taken into account, realistically with the proposed volitality of new tech entering the market and the disruptive influence that will have on Bitcoin's difficulty any devices have to at the very least aim to return ROI within a two month timeframe, that won't happen with 6 Gh/s FPGA now. This as much as secures the network, has to be focused upon being a profitable venture as we are investors as well as enthusiasts! ohh yeah you can forget about the 6gh FPGA providing a 2 month ROI. I was speaking of their Jupiter Unit I think it will still be extremely profitable when it hits the market assuming an August the latest ship date. A lot of the DIY Avalon chips will probably take that long If not longer to ship also anyway. Avalon still hasn't shipped batch #2. I'm sure there will probably be delays in ordering thousands of chips, having people receive their share of chips, having DIYers built boards, shipping those boards back to people. And even if all those things happen and KNC does ship along side with them, I think the Jupiter will provide a nice 2mo ROI worst case given it's massive 250gh power if not more by the time they tweak it. Only thing to do is wait and see what KNC announces. Then go from there. They replied to my email they said at LEAST $2000 off of Jupiter.
lucky you. I sent a message with a few questions through their contact form almost 2 hours ago, still no answer. what email address did you use? anyway if true that means that we're going to pay mars only 795$. it seems a fair price as long as jupiter will be delivered in a reasonable time frame. Use the sales one. Sam replied to me directly. His direct email is sam@kncminer.com sent an email to sam@ on the 26th of April... still no answer |
Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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sickpig
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April 29, 2013, 04:29:59 PM |
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Just got a reply from Sam now
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Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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newfrozzen
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April 29, 2013, 04:31:24 PM |
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Just got a reply from Sam now
andddd..... ? |
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sickpig
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April 29, 2013, 04:55:03 PM |
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Just got a reply from Sam now
andddd..... ? Nothing really interesting i was just asking the way they determine queue placement in case a customer (me) place pre-order for "KNC Bitcoin miner numbers 1-500", a mars and jupiter. And this Is his response: We will put all of your orders together and make sure you get the place in the queue with the lowest number.
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Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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Phinnaeus Gage
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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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April 29, 2013, 06:16:21 PM |
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Just got a reply from Sam now
andddd..... ? Nothing really interesting i was just asking the way they determine queue placement in case a customer (me) place pre-order for "KNC Bitcoin miner numbers 1-500", a mars and jupiter. And this Is his response: We will put all of your orders together and make sure you get the place in the queue with the lowest number.
Been decades since I took math, but isn't 1 the lowest number? Somebody check my work. |
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