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Question: Closing BTC Price June 28:
$0 - 5 (3.5%)
<$7,000 - 4 (2.8%)
$7,000-$7,499 - 0 (0%)
$7,500-$7,999 - 0 (0%)
$8,000-$8,499 - 1 (0.7%)
$8,500-$8,999 - 3 (2.1%)
$9,000-$9,499 - 4 (2.8%)
$9,500-$9,999 - 26 (18.3%)
$10,000-$10,499 - 23 (16.2%)
$10,500-10,999 - 12 (8.5%)
$11,000-$11,499 - 13 (9.2%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 10 (7%)
>$12,000 - 30 (21.1%)
>$20,000 - 11 (7.7%)
Total Voters: 142

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21240709 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (66 posts by 16 users deleted.)
Last of the V8s
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June 28, 2018, 07:01:08 PM

Well, if we're destined to spend another year together we ought to really try to make something of it this time around. Maybe we should try to solve some longstanding math problems. The Yang–Mills existence and mass gap seems straight-forward enough, and there's a prize. Smiley
Ron says it's impossible https://www.quora.com/profile/Ron-Maimon
https://www.quora.com/What-progress-has-been-made-to-date-on-the-Yang%E2%80%93Mills-existence-and-mass-gap-problem
oh hey btw, shiny https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-geometry-underlying-particle-physics-20130917/
next?
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June 28, 2018, 07:05:26 PM

I've been reading anonymint's writings for the past week or so, which also prompted me to dive into some other rabbit holes.

I'm more convinced now of the dangers of segwit. Don't mistake that for being a promotion of bcash.

Give us thickos some bullet points then.

I'll give it a shot.

- Non-segwit transactions require 51% of the hashpower and a private key to steal. Segwit transactions just require 51% of the hashpower.
- This decreases the security of segwit transactions. However, we assume that it will be in the best interest of the miners to not steal Segwit coins. If one of the miners were to take all the segwit coins, we assume most other miner's wouldn't recognize the theft, and the thieved coins would be on a forked chain that would soon die.

The previous part is basically non-controversial. The rest is speculation and conjecture. Anonymint and some others, such as Mircea Popescu, are of the opinion that it's almost an inevitability the segwit coins will be stolen. Here is their reasoning, as I see it:

- Miners did not want the segwit soft fork. They went along with it just to prevent the UASF
- Bcash was essentially "plan a" to keep most transactions on the main bitcoin layer, so they can protect their fees.
- If bcash doesn't succeed (hint: it won't), plan B is a future fork that will remove segwit. In this case, miners will take all the coins.
 - Plan B seems unlikely, but:
 - As more and more Bitcoins pile into segwit addresses, there is an ever-increasing incentive for miners to steal these.
 - Technically it wouldn't even be theft, as segwit transactions are "anyone can spend". You don't need a private key, as mentioned earlier.
 - Even though the majority of users would be pissed, the super wealthy would support the non-segwit chain. To them, securing their wealth is the single most important thing, and the non-segwit chain offers higher security.
 - Mining is centralized, and even if it becomes more decentralized due to new ASIC manufacturers, etc. miners will operate as a cartel. At the end of the day, they all want to make as much money as possible.
 - As we head toward the future, mining rewards taper down to almost nothing. Miners need to increasingly rely on transaction fees. It would be in the best interest of miners to maximize these fees. Segwit cuts into these fees.
Thank you so much infofront
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June 28, 2018, 07:07:50 PM

I've been reading anonymint's writings for the past week or so, which also prompted me to dive into some other rabbit holes.

I'm more convinced now of the dangers of segwit. Don't mistake that for being a promotion of bcash.

Could you be more verbose about that? What are those dangers?

P.S.: But not as much verbose as a thousands words dissertation. Just a simple explanation of your own thinking about the subject.



it goes against the very idea, that is all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423.msg3819#msg3819

I believe it'll be possible for a payment processing company to provide as a service the rapid distribution of transactions with good-enough checking in something like 10 seconds or less.

The network nodes only accept the first version of a transaction they receive to incorporate into the block they're trying to generate.  When you broadcast a transaction, if someone else broadcasts a double-spend at the same time, it's a race to propagate to the most nodes first.  If one has a slight head start, it'll geometrically spread through the network faster and get most of the nodes.

A rough back-of-the-envelope example:
1         0
4         1
16        4
64        16
80%      20%

So if a double-spend has to wait even a second, it has a huge disadvantage.

The payment processor has connections with many nodes.  When it gets a transaction, it blasts it out, and at the same time monitors the network for double-spends.  If it receives a double-spend on any of its many listening nodes, then it alerts that the transaction is bad.  A double-spent transaction wouldn't get very far without one of the listeners hearing it.  The double-spender would have to wait until the listening phase is over, but by then, the payment processor's broadcast has reached most nodes, or is so far ahead in propagating that the double-spender has no hope of grabbing a significant percentage of the remaining nodes.





I don't follow you.... How do Segwit impairs detecting/blocking double spendings?


allow double spending

The idea was to implement a double spend that would have no way of reaching its intended target

A self imploding virus

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June 28, 2018, 07:12:40 PM

Well, if we're destined to spend another year together we ought to really try to make something of it this time around. Maybe we should try to solve some longstanding math problems. The Yang–Mills existence and mass gap seems straight-forward enough, and there's a prize. Smiley
Ron says it's impossible https://www.quora.com/profile/Ron-Maimon
https://www.quora.com/What-progress-has-been-made-to-date-on-the-Yang%E2%80%93Mills-existence-and-mass-gap-problem
oh hey btw, shiny https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-geometry-underlying-particle-physics-20130917/
next?

Well nuts.
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June 28, 2018, 07:21:43 PM
Merited by bones261 (2)

I'll give it a shot.

No need to be concerned, non issue among developers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LN loves Segwit because one of the features is the malleability fix Segwit provides. So Bitcoin can finally scale properly.

What Satoshi thinks about LN;


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June 28, 2018, 07:22:28 PM

Welp. We know how high level money and power works. When it's financially worthwhile to do so, someone will get together the required processing power and buy off the proper authorities and make an honest attempt to steal segwit coins. Whether it succeeds or fails, it will be a big blow to the faith people have in the system (bitcoin in all its forms, authorities, moneyed people (us, even if simply by association)).

Just the first line in your post sold it for me. What in the actual fuck.

I feel dumb. I've been a segwit cheerleader without knowing all the facts. I see now that some of it is tribalism, as you mentioned earlier.

Anyway, it's what we've got now, and I still support Bitcoin. I won't be keeping my cold storage coins in a segwit address though.
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June 28, 2018, 07:53:44 PM

Welp. We know how high level money and power works. When it's financially worthwhile to do so, someone will get together the required processing power and buy off the proper authorities and make an honest attempt to steal segwit coins. Whether it succeeds or fails, it will be a big blow to the faith people have in the system (bitcoin in all its forms, authorities, moneyed people (us, even if simply by association)).

Just the first line in your post sold it for me. What in the actual fuck.

I feel dumb. I've been a segwit cheerleader without knowing all the facts. I see now that some of it is tribalism, as you mentioned earlier.

Anyway, it's what we've got now, and I still support Bitcoin. I won't be keeping my cold storage coins in a segwit address though.
Group identity is a powerful thing. What's important now is what to do going forward.

I didn't even know why it might be bad, I just had a funny feeling due to the lack of open discussion of its pros and cons. When only one side is being talked about, it's time to be careful.
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June 28, 2018, 08:05:23 PM

https://i.imgur.com/Y7kuS2w.png

same as yesterday.  breakout today / tomorrow?

http://blockchainshowdown.blogspot.com/2018/06/btc-usd-29th-june-2018.html
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June 28, 2018, 08:12:49 PM

Welp. We know how high level money and power works. When it's financially worthwhile to do so, someone will get together the required processing power and buy off the proper authorities and make an honest attempt to steal segwit coins. Whether it succeeds or fails, it will be a big blow to the faith people have in the system (bitcoin in all its forms, authorities, moneyed people (us, even if simply by association)).

Just the first line in your post sold it for me. What in the actual fuck.

I feel dumb. I've been a segwit cheerleader without knowing all the facts. I see now that some of it is tribalism, as you mentioned earlier.

Anyway, it's what we've got now, and I still support Bitcoin. I won't be keeping my cold storage coins in a segwit address though.
Group identity is a powerful thing. What's important now is what to do going forward.

I didn't even know why it might be bad, I just had a funny feeling due to the lack of open discussion of its pros and cons. When only one side is being talked about, it's time to be careful.


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June 28, 2018, 08:13:12 PM

First ever burned merit. Odd

Today at 07:52:35 PM: 1 to fluidjax for (Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored)
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June 28, 2018, 08:21:37 PM

First ever burned merit. Odd

Today at 07:52:35 PM: 1 to fluidjax for (Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored)

Sorry, thanks for the merit but I deleted the post. The thread feels unpleasant when I get trolled but am taking the conversation seriously.
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June 28, 2018, 08:27:41 PM
Merited by Last of the V8s (1)

First ever burned merit. Odd

Today at 07:52:35 PM: 1 to fluidjax for (Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored)

Sorry, thanks for the merit but I deleted the post. The thread feels unpleasant when I get trolled but am taking the conversation seriously.


That's ok. Everybody's merits are worth more now. Smiley
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June 28, 2018, 08:34:20 PM


Nope..this is as good as it gets for awhile from what I see. #dyor

Little exit pump before the daily close...maybe. Seems the algo's are getting smarter and moving opposite indicated market direction. Welcome to the Dungeon of Despair everyone..  Roach..turn off the lights when you leave.
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June 28, 2018, 08:37:45 PM


Nope..this is as good as it gets for awhile from what I see. #dyor

Little exit pump before the daily close...maybe. Seems the algo's are getting smarter and moving opposite indicated market direction. Welcome to the Dungeon of Despair everyone..  Roach..turn off the lights when you leave.


That might be the most ominous post I've seen from you.
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June 28, 2018, 08:48:46 PM

Sidechains in theory are great, but there is an unsolved problem of getting value out of them and back into BTC.
So at the moment they are almost useless.

Utterly preposterous. I can't even begin to rationalize that train of thought.

You get your value out of it by opening / closing channels, acquiring something you desire via micropayment, or becoming an efficient router.

I mean, am I surrounded by fucking BCash morons today ?

Lol, I'm a Lightning fan.... I'm talking about SIDECHAINS you fucking moron Smiley


"unsolved problem of getting value out of them and back into BTC"
this is only a problem for greedy monsters who need to traffic humans around the world


so this "money" is the unsolved problem
Always you central thinkers with your money

sidechains will always be the solution, the developer himself saw it
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June 28, 2018, 08:51:51 PM

Even if so: LN is by design centralized.

This is the big fallacy. Bro, Lightning Network does't make bBitcoin centralized because Lightning Network ISN'T BITCOIN.
So it's not bitcoin being moved around?

Sorry you are right. FTFY
Is that a yes or no?

Well it's a yes to my original statement but once I revised my statement it became a question that doesn't apply to what I'm saying. But uh yes, it does move around small letter b bitcoin. So do I if I hand a funded open dime to my friend, that doesn't make me a force for centralization in the big B Bitcoin network.
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June 28, 2018, 08:54:40 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

That's ok. Everybody's merits are worth more now. Smiley
You'd be surprised the number of merits that have been sent to deleted posts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1762404 (check the received section)

Smiley
When it's financially worthwhile to do so, someone will get together the required processing power and buy off the proper authorities and make an honest attempt to steal segwit coins. Whether it succeeds or fails, it will be a big blow to the faith people have in the system (bitcoin in all its forms, authorities, moneyed people (us, even if simply by association)).
But in what scenario would this be viable? Perhaps, if we're at a situation where Bitcoin is seconded by another coin with the same mining algorithm, it would be a way to 'surpass' it (provided the ones doing the takeover had a large enough investment in the second) but this seems like an unlikely event.
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June 28, 2018, 08:55:52 PM

Even if so: LN is by design centralized.

This is the big fallacy. Bro, Lightning Network does't make bBitcoin centralized because Lightning Network ISN'T BITCOIN.
So it's not bitcoin being moved around?

Sorry you are right. FTFY
Is that a yes or no?

Well it's a yes to my original statement but once I revised my statement it became a question that doesn't apply to what I'm saying.

Lightning network (like a credit card system) is the idea of large nodes inclusive of fees and mining working the chain and little nodes assisting in confirming it all (akin to satoshi's idea)
Analogy - Credit cards/paypal/etc on top of banking chain


The problem with lightning is who has the big nodes

decentralization is the key (the nodes or replace with sidechains instead)
whilst distributed lightning network is designed to centralize and control

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June 28, 2018, 08:58:39 PM

Alright look guys. This whole bcash shill thing needs to stop. It has become an automatic reaction for some of you. Kind of like how SJWs call everyone nazis.

There is a simple test for these things. If you can't say something positive about your opponents, then you are the ideologue. Let's have a group exercise this morning. Say something nice about bcashers.


Get the fuck out of here with that "nice" talk.   Angry Angry

*cough* fag *cough*

Bitcoin headed to $1000, tons of altcoins are going to disappear up their own ass and the next set of altcoins (bitcoin included) will depend on what exchange emerge strong.


Since really every person was talking about Bitcoin during the last Bullrun, I think there is too much weight on it in order to have the crazy and relentless growth we saw the last time.

My guess: And established modern Altcoin could overtake Bitcoin easily with the next crypto bull run.

You must be like the thousandth person to say that

something original could be better

Wasn't this the same point about the last run too?  We had the flippening, the cashening, the rippling, the dashening.. and perhaps some other pump and dump lame shitcoin bitcoin is dead prognostications.
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June 28, 2018, 09:02:22 PM

Alright look guys. This whole bcash shill thing needs to stop. It has become an automatic reaction for some of you. Kind of like how SJWs call everyone nazis.

There is a simple test for these things. If you can't say something positive about your opponents, then you are the ideologue. Let's have a group exercise this morning. Say something nice about bcashers.


Get the fuck out of here with that "nice" talk.   Angry Angry

*cough* fag *cough*

Bitcoin headed to $1000, tons of altcoins are going to disappear up their own ass and the next set of altcoins (bitcoin included) will depend on what exchange emerge strong.


Since really every person was talking about Bitcoin during the last Bullrun, I think there is too much weight on it in order to have the crazy and relentless growth we saw the last time.

My guess: And established modern Altcoin could overtake Bitcoin easily with the next crypto bull run.

You must be like the thousandth person to say that

something original could be better

Wasn't this the same point about the last run too?  We had the flippening, the cashening, the rippling, the dashening.. and perhaps some other pump and dump lame shitcoin bitcoin is dead prognostications.

They are actually (whatever you want to call them) deep state funded central banker intelligence backed cia attacks

Started back with the very first ddos attack on this forum

Then the hacks

The altcoin war

Big block debate

Forked coins bcash

and Gavin Andreesssseeenn and his cronies on here behind it all

only a few bad actors
etc etc etc


The question will always remain and very important in any argument


Why is bitcoin being attacked?
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