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Question: Oct. 23 Closing Price:
<$8,000 - 2 (3%)
$8,000-$8,500 - 0 (0%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 0 (0%)
$9,000-$9,500 - 0 (0%)
$9,500-$10,000 - 0 (0%)
$10,000-$10,500 - 1 (1.5%)
$10,500-$11,000 - 0 (0%)
$11,000-$11,500 - 3 (4.5%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 5 (7.6%)
$12,000-$12,500 - 16 (24.2%)
$12,500-$13,000 - 12 (18.2%)
$13,000-$13,500 - 8 (12.1%)
$13,500-$14,000 - 5 (7.6%)
>$14,000 - 14 (21.2%)
Total Voters: 66

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 23402631 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (148 posts by 37 users deleted.)
lightfoot
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July 09, 2018, 10:26:02 PM

No kidding. This stability is boring as fuck.
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BlindMayorBitcorn
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July 09, 2018, 10:37:04 PM
Merited by bones261 (2), BobLawblaw (2)

Bitcorn season.

JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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July 09, 2018, 10:37:54 PM

LN capacity reached 51 BTC up from 30 last week Cool

https://1ml.com/statistics

That is interesting Paashaas.

Seems like a kind of exponential increase in lightning network usage that is ongoing, and more than 52.4 BTC, as I type this response.

Perhaps increased confidence in the security of the lightning network, which is resulting in increasing avenues of utility for bitcoiners. 

Segwit abstainers are going to be one-step removed from such added Bitcoin utility, yet in any event all bitcoin hodlers are likely to be advantaged by such increases in BTC capacity.
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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July 09, 2018, 10:58:05 PM
Last edit: July 10, 2018, 12:04:41 AM by vapourminer
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

There are some scenarios where it makes sense to borrow for depreciating stuff as well - it becomes a sort of a rental then. A car is one example. There is no way I'd spend $25k of my own money and I really don't wanna drive a $5k clunker because my time has value too. So I "rent" it for $200 a month or so. Will not build any equity in it but I don't care, it's not an investment.

Blah. Used car: Invest in a set of tools and the ability to read and you can get that 25k car for a few K tops. My newest car is a 2002, 2001, 95,87,86,68. Why in the name of heaven would I want a new car?

my wrenching days are far behind me. brakes fluids filters tuneups are about all i wish to do now. my time is worth more than what it would take to do any repairs and maintenance beyond that.

and in the sticks dependability is all. so i buy new and get 100,000 mile "everything included" warranties. once it hits that (say 5-6 years) the new vehicles have so many new features and tech its worth buying new again. repeat as needed.

i still do stuff on an old jeep thats my wheeling mobile, but thats pretty easy to work on. and its a hobby mobile, not a daily driver thats absolutely needs to get me from point a to point b when i need it.
JayJuanGee
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July 09, 2018, 11:05:02 PM

There are some scenarios where it makes sense to borrow for depreciating stuff as well - it becomes a sort of a rental then. A car is one example. There is no way I'd spend $25k of my own money and I really don't wanna drive a $5k clunker because my time has value too. So I "rent" it for $200 a month or so. Will not build any equity in it but I don't care, it's not an investment.

Blah. Used car: Invest in a set of tools and the ability to read and you can get that 25k car for a few K tops. My newest car is a 2002, 2001, 95,87,86,68. Why in the name of heaven would I want a new car?

I can relate to economizing and frugality up to a certain point, but at some point, you have to begin to treat yourself.

Yeah, while you are building your nest egg and your various financial assets, you might want to be extremely focused on utility and lack of depreciation; however, at some point, there is value in treating yourself and even showing status that comes with new products that depreciate - a car being a decent example of such.
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July 09, 2018, 11:06:27 PM

15 minute micro pump n dump?

how cute
BlindMayorBitcorn
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July 09, 2018, 11:18:36 PM


how cute




JayJuanGee
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July 09, 2018, 11:20:23 PM
Merited by BlindMayorBitcorn (1)

Pretty amusing when back in January some people here thought the $3k-4k moves up and down every 2-3 days was "just a correction" and completely sustainable, lol.

but not haha amusing. I kind of always knew what the shot was going to be, but my inner bull took over the chinashop. Some said that I was a dreamer. But was I really the only one?

Are you sure that you are not just reframing history?  Funny how a bit of time passage can change perspectives... dragging you out from the cupboards in your dehydrated state, was not a pretty picture, as I recall, but maybe I am the only one?   Wink Cheesy

I was cool as can be. You must be thinking of someone else.


You identified one of my many weaknesses.... which is that I am not going to go back and attempt to wipe that chocolate off of your split personality...  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy   Tongue
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July 09, 2018, 11:40:44 PM


It's like rule 34. No matter how crazy an idea there is at least one person somewhere who believes it.
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July 10, 2018, 12:43:26 AM

For all you TA lovers... if you want to read the biggest crock of horseshit TA and laugh, well here ya go :

https://www.bloomberg.com/professional/blog/trading-lamborghinis-fiats-likely-crypto-bottom/
lightfoot
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July 10, 2018, 01:24:41 AM
Merited by HairyMaclairy (1)

I can relate to economizing and frugality up to a certain point, but at some point, you have to begin to treat yourself.

Yeah, while you are building your nest egg and your various financial assets, you might want to be extremely focused on utility and lack of depreciation; however, at some point, there is value in treating yourself and even showing status that comes with new products that depreciate - a car being a decent example of such.

Well, I did treat myself to a bit of a splurge, a 32 valve 5.0L Porsche 928S, bad assed little car that's pretty unique on the road. A new Toyota or even Tesla just doesn't add much in the wow factor for me. A Lambo has been on the mental table, but I'm not sure if I can fit in one for a longer drive. Maybe if bitcoin tops 25k I'll pick one up just for giggles or something. But even then I would prefer a Diabalo as opposed to something new (The LP500S is amazing looking but a total bitch to drive. I tried it, too much work by far).

Guess I'm just not at the showing status portion of my life yet. But I can understand the lack of wanting to wrench, I'm just pointing out to my kids that it's a lot cheaper to fix something themselves and spend money on hookers and blow than have a new car and no H+B. :-)

C
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July 10, 2018, 02:14:50 AM

I'm just pointing out to my kids that it's a lot cheaper to fix something themselves and spend money on hookers and blow than have a new car and no H+B. :-)

C

well if my kid ever asks me whether to spend money on a new car or a clunker, hookers and blow,
I would indubitably encourage the former...but that's just me.
whatever floats your boat...
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July 10, 2018, 02:29:59 AM

Tell us more Jojo !

I'm not a huge expert.

I know it's a custom casting smallblock bored out to about 450CI.

It ran 10.37 last season naturally aspirated.  The blower is new and untested under load.  He expects to run into compliance issues with tech when he starts running in the 9s.

69, all steel, all glass.  Sexy fucking ride
.

Thats a butt ton of work! Got a buddy with a 67 RS and Had a buddy with a 69 396SS 12 bolt main(pulled wheelies|| that was the shit) but to get into the 9's with that sexy beast is a act of love. Smiley

And well worth it IMO! Cheesy
btw there is a 69 (?)Camaro that does the 9's called the beast.

FUCK! I'm wrong it's 8 Second @ 172MPH !!!!!




A couple of decades ago, I used to have a '68 Chevy 3/4 ton truck with 70k miles. Rust-free, straight and solid. It had a crappy stock 307 V8. That was a bad engine for Chevrolet, it burnt a quart of oil in 500 miles!

I replaced it with a fresh '67 327 with 2.02 intake valves. Solid lifters, doublehump heads, Carter 4bbl, and dome pistons. Aluminum Edelbrock Torker II intake. I had to have the starter rebuilt with more windings for the high compression. It was licensed, and had open headers, it was hot shit on the farm. At the time.

It was geared too low to go fast, but it got there very, very quickly. It had the snap/crackle/pop/rumpity rump idle. The other farmers thought I was weird. Some of the young ones saluted me, for hearing it start a 1/4 mile away, on a cold winter morning.

This was a daily driver for 11 years, not just a weekend fun thing.
I replaced it with a fresh '67 327 with 2.02 intake valves. Solid lifters, doublehump heads, Carter 4bbl, and dome pistons. Aluminum Edelbrock Torker II intake. I had to have the starter rebuilt with more windings for the high compression. It was licensed, and had open headers, it was hot shit on the farm. At the time.

That paragraph is so fucking butch my testosterone levels tripled just reading it.

i had a 74 vega notchback.
burnt more oil than petrol.
sounded and ran like a flatulent tin can.
then i crashed it.
probably for the better.

motorhead I'm not...
I used to tell people my 72 Gran Torino had Oil induction. Lol

They were impressed until I explained what that really meant. Smiley

BTW I've got a 350 sitting in my addition right now on the engine stand, been too lazy to find it a home. Too tired after the XJS rusted out while I was laid up. Smiley


Yes.  At the time of Roger's lock-up for the "fireworks", he was 22 years old and an unknown, but just from his description, he did not seem to experience any kind of real torture, and overall he may have received a bit on the kit glove treatment side.  

If Roger were locked up now, he could have some bad experiences based on his exponentially increased notoriety - but since he is rich, too, currently, rich people do NOT tend to get tortured when they go to jail, unless there are really extreme and revolutionary things going on in the society.  By the way, I would not wish torture on anyone, even if they have some despicable personality traits, but there are concepts of fairness/justice that assert that letting the punishment fit the crime would be the right thing to do in figuring out punishment(s).

Punishment should fit the crime but what should the punishment be when the crime is fabricated and the real crime is bucking the system and how do you prove that?
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July 10, 2018, 02:36:46 AM
Last edit: July 10, 2018, 02:57:15 AM by STT

Quote
32 valve 5.0L Porsche 928S, bad assed little car that's pretty unique on the road.

I remember these from years back but the all aluminium engine Ive not heard of before.  Is that an asset for the older car, I've no idea how people decide whats going to be popular.  On another forum I know someone got a F40 in the last market crash, its price appreciation since equals its acceleration.   If it was me I'd want to buy a De Tomaso  apparently is easy to work on Smiley

The funny thing there is a classic cars are often tax free in terms of an asset appreciation or capital gains tax.   Im not sure about fine art and other things, there might be a few assets which are actually quite clever to hold for their long term value or at least ability to hold value over time.    If you happen to also love the car or whatever asset then its a bonus.   This is easily arguable in terms of diversification, so long as you believe the price is not inflated wrongly for some reason its personal judgement on that one.

Quote
Bankers in Germany’s automotive heartland have a recommendation for investors seeking alternatives to low interest rates: vintage cars from their region.

“For customers with more than 1 million euros in liquid assets, a classic car can be an attractive addition to their portfolio in terms of yield and value stability,” Jens Berner, vintage car expert at Suedwestbank AG’s asset management unit, said in an interview. “After the financial crisis, requests for alternative investments such as art, wine or classic cars had risen sharply.”

Also I post because I saw very similar article just recently - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-09/vintage-porsches-683-gain-fuels-returns-in-carmakers-homeland


Also would help to know a good mechanic.   In terms of the Lambo meme, generally people refer to new cars which often is a heavily depreciating asset.   Not always it depends on production vs demand but usually not a good idea, imo kinda pointless unless you also have the race track


For all you TA lovers... if you want to read the biggest crock of horseshit TA and laugh, well here ya go :

https://www.bloomberg.com/professional/blog/trading-lamborghinis-fiats-likely-crypto-bottom/


Judging by a ratio could be of some use.   I think they are arguing the total market cap is overvalued if considering an average ratio vs transaction value done since 2010
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July 10, 2018, 02:40:00 AM

The funny thing there is a classic cars are often tax free in terms of an asset appreciation or capital gains tax.   Im not sure about fine art and other things, there might be a few assets which are actually quite clever to hold for their long term value or at least ability to hold value over time.    If you happen to also love the car or whatever asset then its a bonus.   This is easily arguable in terms of diversification, so long as you believe the price is not inflated wrongly for some reason its personal judgement on that one....

Storage and upkeep are massive in comparison to say "art" which hangs on the wall and doesn't need upkeep until you get into the massive digits. Investing in classic cars is more of an act of love than investment.

EDIT: I guess thats a matter of opinion. <<< --- beeen drinking agin. Cheesy
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July 10, 2018, 03:03:23 AM

I can relate to economizing and frugality up to a certain point, but at some point, you have to begin to treat yourself.

Yeah, while you are building your nest egg and your various financial assets, you might want to be extremely focused on utility and lack of depreciation; however, at some point, there is value in treating yourself and even showing status that comes with new products that depreciate - a car being a decent example of such.

Well, I did treat myself to a bit of a splurge, a 32 valve 5.0L Porsche 928S, bad assed little car that's pretty unique on the road.

If you go from one extreme to the next, then how am I supposed to be able to have a meaningful conversation with you?

At one point, you sound as if you are advocating a kind of fancy car abstinence, and then a few posts later, you are describing yourself as one of the most spendy of spendy consumers?


A new Toyota or even Tesla just doesn't add much in the wow factor for me.

Yes, people are different.  Surely, some cars are more practical than other cars, and some cars have more wow factor, so of course, this will vary based on your own history and experience and/or who you might be attempting to impress, besides yourself.


A Lambo has been on the mental table, but I'm not sure if I can fit in one for a longer drive.

Yeah, I had noticed that Lambos are very low to the ground, so sometimes physical flexibility getting in and out and just overall comfort too, could be a factor.   So the lack of practicality would likely make it just a fun extra car, rather than a regular use car.

Maybe if bitcoin tops 25k I'll pick one up just for giggles or something. But even then I would prefer a Diabalo as opposed to something new (The LP500S is amazing looking but a total bitch to drive. I tried it, too much work by far).

You seem to know more about different Lambo models and options, than me.  I have not even considered any kind of car like that for myself.


Guess I'm just not at the showing status portion of my life yet.

Could be, but sounds like you are a bit ambivalent.

But I can understand the lack of wanting to wrench,

For sure.  I used to do a lot of my own self-repair, but my own wilingness to repair has gone down, but like others have mentioned, too, cars have become a bit more difficult to self-repair, too (computerization matters and other special tools/parts).

I'm just pointing out to my kids that it's a lot cheaper to fix something themselves and spend money on hookers and blow than have a new car and no H+B. :-)

C

Surely, it is a good thing to teach kids about different kinds of self-sufficiencies, but also how to control some of their temptations and self-indulgences.  Of course, kids do not necessarily follow the guidances of parents, but it is good to give them guidance -and even presenting ideas of deferred gratification would be good, and leading by example might be more powerful than any words that you were to use.



JayJuanGee
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July 10, 2018, 03:15:11 AM

Yes.  At the time of Roger's lock-up for the "fireworks", he was 22 years old and an unknown, but just from his description, he did not seem to experience any kind of real torture, and overall he may have received a bit on the kit glove treatment side.  

If Roger were locked up now, he could have some bad experiences based on his exponentially increased notoriety - but since he is rich, too, currently, rich people do NOT tend to get tortured when they go to jail, unless there are really extreme and revolutionary things going on in the society.  By the way, I would not wish torture on anyone, even if they have some despicable personality traits, but there are concepts of fairness/justice that assert that letting the punishment fit the crime would be the right thing to do in figuring out punishment(s).

Punishment should fit the crime but what should the punishment be when the crime is fabricated and the real crime is bucking the system and how do you prove that?

I was merely spouting out generic principles, regarding striving to have the punishment fit the crime, and certainly criminal prosecution and conviction is a public good with public input and guidelines.  Some jurisdictions have strict guidelines and other jurisdictions allow for a lot of judicial discretion (as long as such discretion fits into social norms and expectations).  Of course, as long as sentencing judges are respected by the community, they would have more discretion to fit sentences.

So, at this point, Roger has not been convicted of anything, but if he were convicted of fraud or misrepresentation or caught with some other form of insider trading (stealing money from investors), then those kinds of crimes would be assessed for punishment.. so yeah, we are really talking hypothetical, when he has not even been charged with anything, so far as far as I know... and a lot of the character faults that I have been pointing out might be moral and ethical rather than something that could result in criminal prosecution/conviction (which may be on another level, if it were provable).. 

On the other hand, another reference that I made was a kind of informal justice (or maybe even considering a kind of vigilante justice) that might come in a prison setting, and sometimes guards and prisoners could end up metting out kinds of punishments that might not even be just or fit into criminal categories.
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July 10, 2018, 04:10:37 AM

Yes.  At the time of Roger's lock-up for the "fireworks", he was 22 years old and an unknown, but just from his description, he did not seem to experience any kind of real torture, and overall he may have received a bit on the kit glove treatment side.  

If Roger were locked up now, he could have some bad experiences based on his exponentially increased notoriety - but since he is rich, too, currently, rich people do NOT tend to get tortured when they go to jail, unless there are really extreme and revolutionary things going on in the society.  By the way, I would not wish torture on anyone, even if they have some despicable personality traits, but there are concepts of fairness/justice that assert that letting the punishment fit the crime would be the right thing to do in figuring out punishment(s).

Punishment should fit the crime but what should the punishment be when the crime is fabricated and the real crime is bucking the system and how do you prove that?

I was merely spouting out generic principles, regarding striving to have the punishment fit the crime, and certainly criminal prosecution and conviction is a public good with public input and guidelines.  Some jurisdictions have strict guidelines and other jurisdictions allow for a lot of judicial discretion (as long as such discretion fits into social norms and expectations).  Of course, as long as sentencing judges are respected by the community, they would have more discretion to fit sentences.

So, at this point, Roger has not been convicted of anything, but if he were convicted of fraud or misrepresentation or caught with some other form of insider trading (stealing money from investors), then those kinds of crimes would be assessed for punishment.. so yeah, we are really talking hypothetical, when he has not even been charged with anything, so far as far as I know... and a lot of the character faults that I have been pointing out might be moral and ethical rather than something that could result in criminal prosecution/conviction (which may be on another level, if it were provable).. 

On the other hand, another reference that I made was a kind of informal justice (or maybe even considering a kind of vigilante justice) that might come in a prison setting, and sometimes guards and prisoners could end up metting out kinds of punishments that might not even be just or fit into criminal categories.

I was just speaking in generalizations and my query had no connection to Ver. I agree with your general sentiments (IE bolded).
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July 10, 2018, 04:27:58 AM

https://www.ccn.com/major-futures-exchange-cboe-files-for-bitcoin-etf-increasing-probability-of-approval/
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July 10, 2018, 05:26:18 AM

So price wise, is this going deeper or are we out of the dark? I personally think that we will go and test prices around 3xxx, where it should bounce back up. Again, no real TA behind it, just my own prediction based on different articles and stuff.

Would like to hear what TA specialists have to say about this. And maybe throw us some graphs.

You read a bunch of articles saying that bitcoin is going down, therefore the weight of the evidence causes you to feel that there are pretty decent chances that bitcoin is going down.

That makes a lot of sense.    Roll Eyes

You are wrong, try not to assume so much. In December most articles were about how it's going to the moon and extreme levels, though I was pretty sure around 12-13k it will crash soon and hard, ppl were still buying pretty actively then. I can read 10 positive articles and have a negative view after that, or vice versa.
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