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Question: Closing BTC Price June 28:
$0 - 5 (3.2%)
<$7,000 - 4 (2.6%)
$7,000-$7,499 - 0 (0%)
$7,500-$7,999 - 0 (0%)
$8,000-$8,499 - 1 (0.6%)
$8,500-$8,999 - 3 (1.9%)
$9,000-$9,499 - 4 (2.6%)
$9,500-$9,999 - 26 (16.9%)
$10,000-$10,499 - 24 (15.6%)
$10,500-10,999 - 12 (7.8%)
$11,000-$11,499 - 14 (9.1%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 15 (9.7%)
>$12,000 - 33 (21.4%)
>$20,000 - 13 (8.4%)
Total Voters: 154

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21243108 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (66 posts by 16 users deleted.)
bitserve
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June 28, 2018, 11:05:34 PM


- Non-segwit transactions require 51% of the hashpower and a private key to steal. Segwit transactions just require 51% of the hashpower.


You statement is very confusing since you are taking about two things: a) 51% attack and b) stealing coins.
How can you steal coins without private keys on Bitcoin?  What kind of bull shit is this?
Please enlighten me!

In big blocker world you don’t need non mining nodes. Miners enforce and determine consensus. Therefore 51% attack can do anything they like including stealing coins without keys.

And with bitcoin the nodes wouldn't validate these transactions since they don't have signatures, hence this would result to a hard fork of the chain. And the miners could do a hardfork right now if they wanted. And they haven't yet for good reasons.

And what is most important: Exchanges do run their own nodes and would not accept the tx's stealing segwit from the rogue fork no matter if it temporarily have more hashrate than the original blockchain. Good luck doing anything with your worthless stolen "bitcoins".
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jbreher
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June 28, 2018, 11:18:08 PM


- Non-segwit transactions require 51% of the hashpower and a private key to steal. Segwit transactions just require 51% of the hashpower.


You statement is very confusing since you are taking about two things: a) 51% attack and b) stealing coins.
How can you steal coins without private keys on Bitcoin?  What kind of bull shit is this?
Please enlighten me!

You haven't been listening. A 51% miner gets to declare that what were formerly segwit transactions are now anyonecanspend transactions. After all, that would merely be reversion to the consensus rules that existed before segwit activation (by a so-called 'compatible soft fork'). What happens to an anyonecanspend transaction? It's output is literally assignable to anyone. If you are mining, you are you going to assign that value to other than yourself? If you solve the block, they're yours.

Funny thing however, is that it is arguably not stealing, as it is merely operating under the existing consensus rules. Ones that were universal before some misguided individuals promulgated the idea that they were something other than anyonecanspend.
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June 28, 2018, 11:24:11 PM

Yeah...but...
I had dreams, you know. Angry
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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June 28, 2018, 11:24:17 PM

I'll give it a shot.

Thank you.

Mr. Mint and that other one seem like flat out nutters to me though. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others but of course it's seemingly impossible to get impartial thoughts on this.

I find the idea of the super rich raping Segwit and relaxing in Bitcoin Original watching it burn laughable myself. Everyone and everything would be swatted in a tsunami of shit.

It does look like extra risk that certainly most could do without taking, but the incentive not to raze everything to the ground is still as strong as ever. If it's that gaping I'm surprised there's that much faith in the incentives alone though.

Good point, gentlemand.

Sure, there can be all kinds of hypothesizing that miners will do this or that, but in the end, why the fuck would they want to kill the golden goose, when the end plot is not going to cause the whole bitcoin network to move over to some kind of new fork that they supposedly branch into and to give their supposed new fork value.

There were similar premises previously, around the time of the bcash fork, regarding the supposed power for miners to do whatever the fuck they wanted including removing their hash power from bitcoin because they were ultimately the boss of security, yet we found that when push came to shove, value incentives did not move so easily or shift over to something that was perceived to be a deviation from consensus.. so the fantasy of miners throwing around power and threatening the movement of value (or stealing value) ended up not being as true in practice as it was in theory.
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June 28, 2018, 11:24:43 PM

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June 28, 2018, 11:27:38 PM

Stop it! Im allergic on red candles!!!
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June 28, 2018, 11:28:11 PM

The risk you are mentioning here is somewhat "real" but it is decreasing as more funds get moved to segwit addresses.

No, it is increasing. The value in the UTXO that traces back to segwit transactions -- even if not currently on a segwit address -- is monotonically increasing. The prize available to the miners for reverting to the older rule set does nothing but increase over time.

I'll agree that it is by no means known that they will do so. But it is also by no means known that they will not. Funny that for all the lip service Core gives to security, and the rather dim view that many if not most Core devs have of miners, that they would introduce such a vulnerability.
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June 28, 2018, 11:28:44 PM

Price down...forum full of bcash FUD...

I forgot what I was supposed to program my bot to do in this situation. Final indicator will be if I start getting some large buy orders on localbitcoins.
jbreher
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June 28, 2018, 11:30:15 PM

Exchanges do run their own nodes

Yes...

Quote
and would not accept the tx's stealing segwit claiming anyonecanspends from the rogue majority fork

You are speculating.
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June 28, 2018, 11:30:33 PM

Pretty much this.

I wonder If any of these people will be able to make a public appearance after a coup like this.



See this photo?

Do you think any of these 3 are bold enough to trigger a world war and strong enough to survive through it? Are they brave enough to spend the rest of their lives in an underground bunker with the fears of getting killed at any second?

All I see here is 3 *aggots.

Yeah right.  You think that they can really generate enough folks to follow their narcisistic leadership path?  

It seems that your last sentence tells most of it... they are not inspiring enough.. maybe they need a new leader?  Gavin Andressen?  
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June 28, 2018, 11:31:26 PM


- Non-segwit transactions require 51% of the hashpower and a private key to steal. Segwit transactions just require 51% of the hashpower.


You statement is very confusing since you are taking about two things: a) 51% attack and b) stealing coins.
How can you steal coins without private keys on Bitcoin?  What kind of bull shit is this?
Please enlighten me!

You haven't been listening. A 51% miner gets to declare that what were formerly segwit transactions are now anyonecanspend transactions. After all, that would merely be reversion to the consensus rules that existed before segwit activation (by a so-called 'compatible soft fork'). What happens to an anyonecanspend transaction? It's output is literally assignable to anyone. If you are mining, you are you going to assign that value to other than yourself? If you solve the block, they're yours.

Funny thing however, is that it is arguably not stealing, as it is merely operating under the existing consensus rules. Ones that were universal before some misguided individuals promulgated the idea that they were something other than anyonecanspend.

A 51% miner could just increase the block reward to whatever arbitrary amount they feel like... or just start his own fork from scratch. Double spends, on the other hand, are more tricky to detect and would probably just pass. So the most profitable strategy for a 51% attacker would be to use double spends and not try to steal segwit addresses.

That is if we don't take into account that ANY 51% attack (even double spends) would severely impact the price of Bitcoin..... and I doubt a major player in mining (51% hello?) would have any motivation to even think about it.
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June 28, 2018, 11:33:50 PM

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June 28, 2018, 11:34:37 PM

I'll agree that it is by no means known that they will do so. But it is also by no means known that they will not. Funny that for all the lip service Core gives to security, and the rather dim view that many if not most Core devs have of miners, that they would introduce such a vulnerability.

You mean a vulnerability like the 0 conf in BCash that allows double spends galore?



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June 28, 2018, 11:34:53 PM

A 51% miner gets to declare that what were formerly segwit transactions are now anyonecanspend transactions.

Declare? What a funny bs... You can declare whatever you want. Nobody cares what you declare being a 51% or 99% miner. What matters is the tx signature!
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June 28, 2018, 11:35:27 PM

51% HP is not enough for any reasonable attack. 75% maybe...
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June 28, 2018, 11:35:41 PM

The miners and wealthy elites know what's coming (or what may come), so they're storing their coins in legacy addresses. So, only the plebs like us will be screwed, and no one will give a shit.

Signature:
I do not accept segwit outputs as payment, nor send them.


Some of us will be ok.

Who is going to wear that "theoretical" signature?
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June 28, 2018, 11:35:49 PM

Oh joy. New bottom-testing ?
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June 28, 2018, 11:39:18 PM

Oh joy. New bottom-testing ?

Bottoms again and again.
It`s boring  Cool
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June 28, 2018, 11:39:41 PM

The miners and wealthy elites know what's coming (or what may come), so they're storing their coins in legacy addresses. So, only the plebs like us will be screwed, and no one will give a shit.

Signature:
I do not accept segwit outputs as payment, nor send them.


Some of us will be ok.

Who is going to wear that "theoretical" signature?
moi. I've been wearing that for a good while.
jbreher
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June 28, 2018, 11:40:41 PM


- Non-segwit transactions require 51% of the hashpower and a private key to steal. Segwit transactions just require 51% of the hashpower.


You statement is very confusing since you are taking about two things: a) 51% attack and b) stealing coins.
How can you steal coins without private keys on Bitcoin?  What kind of bull shit is this?
Please enlighten me!

You haven't been listening. A 51% miner gets to declare that what were formerly segwit transactions are now anyonecanspend transactions. After all, that would merely be reversion to the consensus rules that existed before segwit activation (by a so-called 'compatible soft fork'). What happens to an anyonecanspend transaction? It's output is literally assignable to anyone. If you are mining, you are you going to assign that value to other than yourself? If you solve the block, they're yours.

Funny thing however, is that it is arguably not stealing, as it is merely operating under the existing consensus rules. Ones that were universal before some misguided individuals promulgated the idea that they were something other than anyonecanspend.

A 51% miner could just increase the block reward to whatever arbitrary amount they feel like...

But that would not be employing previous consensus rules. It would be a completely new fabrication.
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