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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25464075 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13+ users deleted.)
Biodom
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February 20, 2019, 03:36:30 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)

cannot quote ^^^it properly.
It's not mining elitism, it is how it works since Satoshi made it public.
If you think that owning btc makes you or anyone else a contributor, no it does not (in a POW system), but it does in a POS system where you mine using your stake.
IN POW system miners and node-owners control the system.
Simply owning btc is OK, but you are effectively cut off out of all decision making that might affect your btc.
This is just a statement of fact, nothing personal.
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February 20, 2019, 03:38:26 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1), JayJuanGee (1)

cannot quote ^^^it properly.
It's not mining elitism, it is how it works since Satoshi made it public.
If you think that owning btc makes you or anyone else a contributor, no it does not (in a POW system), but it does in a POS system where you mine using your stake.
IN POW system miners and node-owners control the system.
Simply owning btc is OK, but you are effectively cut off out of all decision making that might affect your btc.
This is just a statement of fact, nothing personal.


You are taking a technology centric view and ignoring economic soft power.  UASF proved the strength of economic hodlers.  Don't get fooled by Bcash propaganda that miners vote.  They can just fork off and take their hashpower elsewhere and good luck to them.  We will sell their shitty fork coins and buy more BTC.

Meanwhile Bitmain is sitting on a pile of Bcash that no one wants. 
Biodom
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February 20, 2019, 03:43:50 AM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 03:59:15 AM by Biodom
Merited by vapourminer (1), Paashaas (1), ssmc2 (1)

cannot quote ^^^it properly.
It's not mining elitism, it is how it works since Satoshi made it public.
If you think that owning btc makes you or anyone else a contributor, no it does not (in a POW system), but it does in a POS system where you mine using your stake.
IN POW system miners and node-owners control the system.
Simply owning btc is OK, but you are effectively cut off out of all decision making that might affect your btc.
This is just a statement of fact, nothing personal.


You are taking a technology centric view and ignoring economic soft power.  UASF proved the strength of economic hodlers.  Don't get fooled by Bcash propaganda that miners vote.  They can just fork off and take their hashpower elsewhere and good luck to them.

UASF proved the power of users with nodes, NOT the hodlers. Hodlers were totally out of the loop and were not in the decision making.
In fact, economic powers such as coinbase and barry silbert's fund were not able to do anything because nodes said (indirectly) that they will go with the core and it was not economical for miners to go and do a split.
They would have been losing many millions a day. It is a bit funny that you are indirectly arguing for POS (power to hodlers) while saying that POW is better. No paradox here?

"UASF stands for User Activated Soft Fork.
It’s a mechanism where the activation time of a soft fork occurs on a specified date enforced by full nodes; a concept sometimes referred to as the economic majority."
https://cointelegraph.com/explained/uasf-vs-uahf-explained

"The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. Nodes work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism." by Satoshi N.
JayJuanGee
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February 20, 2019, 03:53:22 AM

cannot quote ^^^it properly.
It's not mining elitism, it is how it works since Satoshi made it public.
If you think that owning btc makes you or anyone else a contributor,

You seem to be changing the topic.

Was I talking about myself?

In my earlier post, I was attempting to describe why there is both erroneous logic and likely a lack of understanding if anyone is attempting to suggest that POW is the same or some variation of POS.   To the extent that I may have made other points, was not part of the thrust of what I was saying in that post.

You came back with some kind of assertion of what seems to be hierarchies of bitcoin citizenship.


no it does not (in a POW system), but it does in a POS system where you mine using your stake.

Who gives a shit about POS?  Go pump some shit coin or contribute to some other project. Part of my point is that any attempts to suggest that POS systems are bringing some kind of similar innovative dynamic to the crypto space, such as bitcoin does are either ill-informed or erroneous.

By the way, anyone investing into bitcoin does not have to actually participate in the security of the POW bitcoin system in order to get the benefits of the various contributions of others, including the contributions of miners.  Accordingly, a lot of folks can profit to fuck all without putting one cent towards mining.  Whether that is a free-rider problem or not, there seems to be decent free market dynamics that allow various kinds of speculation and profit from bitcoin... even if not directly profiting or contributing to actual mining.    Lovely that... and there are a lot of us who have made a lot of money already, just by buying, accumulating and hodling bitcoin... and we can equally get our dicks sucked with hookers, blow and lambos.   Wink




IN POW system miners and node-owners control the system.

Good job... great.

Simply owning btc is OK,

I am glad that you approve of such activity.  I actually suggest people buy some bitcoin and take a stake in bitcoin by buying it.  I do not suggest that people start mining. Of course, if they want to start mining or own  a node then great... I am glad that they are contributing to bitcoin in such a concrete (and optional) way.


but you are effectively cut off out of all decision making that might affect your btc.
This is just a statement of fact, nothing personal.

Could be true, and partaking in decision making regarding the governance details of bitcoin may or may not be important for all folks.  There may be some folks who merely prefer to spend their lives engaged in other activities, whether that is hookers, blow and lambos or other some other personally satisfying / rewarding activities.
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February 20, 2019, 03:59:25 AM

text

Sorry, I don't have any idea what you are talking about (basically a mix of insults with gibberish).


Fine if you do not understand english, and if you patronize by characterize what I say as gibberish, then you are likely the one who is being insulting by cursorily dismissing views in a topic that you brought up and asserting that you don't understand basic concepts in english.

Let me try to make one of my points in another way.  What I am saying is that a person, such as me, is still able to benefit from bitcoin's POW without being a miner nor a node operator, just like a person who needs brain surgery would be able to potentially benefit from the fact that brain surgery as a practice exists, even if that person is neither a brain surgeon nor works in a hospital.
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February 20, 2019, 04:00:29 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.
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February 20, 2019, 04:01:03 AM


Well BTC finally approaching the price of my 13 BTC panic dumping like a 9-year-old girl (insert screaming and such here) a month or two back?

I 'panic' dumped/sold at $3,965 usd.

Now it is at $3,934.06 for BTC at this moment.

Well, sold some equipment so got it down now to only about 9 BTC down from the 13 BTC down since the 'episode'

20/20 hindsight was still the right thing to do. Hard to type that even if true for real-world reasons.

By mentioning that it is NOT quite there yet, my BTC sold at $3,965 price... I likely jinxed it. My Bad, in advance.

Anyone else get some of their BTC back in the 'doldrums' of BTC prices below 4k? that sold below 4k? But recovered some back on wish/prayer?

Anyway, 9 BTC down (or 4 back at less than my above sale 13 BTC panic sale) is better than I expected during my 'loss of faith" on the 13 BTC dump.

knock wood

later

brad
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February 20, 2019, 04:03:26 AM


Well BTC finally approaching the price of my 13 BTC panic dumping like a 9-year-old girl (insert screaming and such here) a month or two back?

I 'panic' dumped/sold at $3,965 usd.

Now it is at $3,934.06 for BTC at this moment.

Well, sold some equipment so got it down now to only about 9 BTC down from the 13 BTC down since the 'episode'

20/20 hindsight was still the right thing to do. Hard to type that even if true for real-world reasons.

By mentioning that it is NOT quite there yet, my BTC sold at $3,965 price... I likely jinxed it. My Bad, in advance.

Anyone else get some of their BTC back in the 'doldrums' of BTC prices below 4k? that sold below 4k? But recovered some back on wish/prayer?

Anyway, 9 BTC down (or 4 back at less than my above sale 13 BTC panic sale) is better than I expected during my 'loss of faith" on the 13 BTC dump.

knock wood

later

brad


Considering your stash and your needs at the time. You did the right thing no matter what. Don't overthink it.
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February 20, 2019, 04:04:34 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked
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February 20, 2019, 04:06:07 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked

No, didn't you read we can have a lower bottom?

I will remain capitulated until further notice.
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February 20, 2019, 04:08:53 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked

No, didn't you read we can have a lower bottom?

I will remain capitulated until further notice.

I know. I know.

Rome was not built in a day, just like "uncapitulating" is not going to.   Wink 

Welcome back to the beginning of the end of your capitulation.  Tongue
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February 20, 2019, 04:11:12 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked

No, didn't you read we can have a lower bottom?

I will remain capitulated until further notice.

I know. I know.

Rome was not built in a day, just like "uncapitulating" is not going to.   Wink  

Welcome back to the beginning of the end of your capitulation.  Tongue

When I start sending new deposits like a mad monkey, that will be the signal of my end of capitulation.

P.S.: Yes, I won't catch the bottom. I never do.
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February 20, 2019, 04:11:38 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1), BobLawblaw (1)

cannot quote ^^^it properly.
It's not mining elitism, it is how it works since Satoshi made it public.
If you think that owning btc makes you or anyone else a contributor, no it does not (in a POW system), but it does in a POS system where you mine using your stake.
IN POW system miners and node-owners control the system.
Simply owning btc is OK, but you are effectively cut off out of all decision making that might affect your btc.
This is just a statement of fact, nothing personal.


You are taking a technology centric view and ignoring economic soft power.  UASF proved the strength of economic hodlers.  Don't get fooled by Bcash propaganda that miners vote.  They can just fork off and take their hashpower elsewhere and good luck to them.

UASF proved the power of users with nodes, NOT the hodlers. Hodlers were totally out of the loop and were not in the decision making.
In fact, economic powers such as coinbase and barry silbert's fund were not able to do anything because nodes said (indirectly) that they will go with the core and it was not economical for miners to go and do a split.
They would have been losing many millions a day. It is a bit funny that you are indirectly arguing for POS (power to hodlers) while saying that POW is better. No paradox here?

"UASF stands for User Activated Soft Fork.
It’s a mechanism where the activation time of a soft fork occurs on a specified date enforced by full nodes; a concept sometimes referred to as the economic majority."
https://cointelegraph.com/explained/uasf-vs-uahf-explained

"The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. Nodes work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism." by Satoshi N.

Cutting through all of it, the miners will follow the money, because they have to follow the money.  They have to pay electricity expenses (which is in sharp contrast to POS where stakers pay nothing - hence the nothing at stake problem even if Vitalik thinks it doesn't apply - he's wrong)

I concede that if you have a large financial stake in Bitcoin and are not running a full node, then you are a fool.  

But in this case, economic soft power and nodes are aligned.  
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February 20, 2019, 04:13:22 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked

No, didn't you read we can have a lower bottom?

I will remain capitulated until further notice.

I know. I know.

Rome was not built in a day, just like "uncapitulating" is not going to.   Wink 

Welcome back to the beginning of the end of your capitulation.  Tongue

When I start sending new deposits like a mad monkey, that will be the signal of my end of capitulation.

Fair enough...

Just like any good inside trader, you should not disclose to us about the exact end of your capitulation until you have well-established your BTC stash.   Wink  just saying.
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February 20, 2019, 04:16:37 AM
Merited by HairyMaclairy (1)

I concede that if you have a large financial stake in Bitcoin and are not running a full node, then you are a fool.  

Mentally, foolish me, I take back the merit that I just foolishly sent to your previous post, before I realized that I was a fool.

You have ruined my foolish free-rider mood.   Cry Cry    Tongue
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February 20, 2019, 04:20:17 AM

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked

No, didn't you read we can have a lower bottom?

I will remain capitulated until further notice.

I know. I know.

Rome was not built in a day, just like "uncapitulating" is not going to.   Wink  

Welcome back to the beginning of the end of your capitulation.  Tongue

When I start sending new deposits like a mad monkey, that will be the signal of my end of capitulation.

Fair enough...

Just like any good inside trader, you should not disclose to us about the exact end of your capitulation until you have well-established your BTC stash.   Wink  just saying.

Bleh, my stash count won't change much just by my fresh fiat. That's probably what makes me refrain from buying right now (plus other personal circumstances... timing sucks). At this point it would be easier to increase my stash by trading than by using my available fiat. Unless I went full retarded and bet it all I have (and NEED)... which I won't.

Being a very small, even insignificant, fish in this pool I see absolutely no problem telling my actions.
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February 20, 2019, 04:22:23 AM

cannot quote ^^^it properly.
It's not mining elitism, it is how it works since Satoshi made it public.
If you think that owning btc makes you or anyone else a contributor, no it does not (in a POW system), but it does in a POS system where you mine using your stake.
IN POW system miners and node-owners control the system.
Simply owning btc is OK, but you are effectively cut off out of all decision making that might affect your btc.
This is just a statement of fact, nothing personal.


You are taking a technology centric view and ignoring economic soft power.  UASF proved the strength of economic hodlers.  Don't get fooled by Bcash propaganda that miners vote.  They can just fork off and take their hashpower elsewhere and good luck to them.

UASF proved the power of users with nodes, NOT the hodlers. Hodlers were totally out of the loop and were not in the decision making.
In fact, economic powers such as coinbase and barry silbert's fund were not able to do anything because nodes said (indirectly) that they will go with the core and it was not economical for miners to go and do a split.
They would have been losing many millions a day. It is a bit funny that you are indirectly arguing for POS (power to hodlers) while saying that POW is better. No paradox here?

"UASF stands for User Activated Soft Fork.
It’s a mechanism where the activation time of a soft fork occurs on a specified date enforced by full nodes; a concept sometimes referred to as the economic majority."
https://cointelegraph.com/explained/uasf-vs-uahf-explained

"The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. Nodes work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism." by Satoshi N.

Cutting through all of it, the miners will follow the money, because they have to follow the money.  They have to pay electricity expenses (which is in sharp contrast to POS where stakers pay nothing - hence the nothing at stake problem even if Vitalik thinks it doesn't apply - he's wrong)

I concede that if you have a large financial stake in Bitcoin and are not running a full node, then you are a fool.  

But in this case, economic soft power and nodes are aligned.  

Nicely put.
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February 20, 2019, 04:32:32 AM
Merited by Dabs (2)

I concede that if you have a large financial stake in Bitcoin and are not running a full node, then you are a fool.  

Mentally, foolish me, I take back the merit that I just foolishly sent to your previous post, before I realized that I was a fool.

You have ruined my foolish free-rider mood.   Cry Cry    Tongue

Well, that's like, just my opinion, man

I have returned your merit.  I hope we are square now. 
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February 20, 2019, 04:37:01 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1)

The fact that we are hovering near $4000 while many people are still waiting to buy at $3000-$3300, $2800, $2500, $2000 and even lower is... Fine.

Of course it doesn't mean we can't have another lower bottom.

Just saying... but I don't know what I say. Mind you.

I am witnessing slow and in-progress un-capitulating... whoaza!!!!!!....   Shocked Shocked

No, didn't you read we can have a lower bottom?

I will remain capitulated until further notice.

I know. I know.

Rome was not built in a day, just like "uncapitulating" is not going to.   Wink 

Welcome back to the beginning of the end of your capitulation.  Tongue

When I start sending new deposits like a mad monkey, that will be the signal of my end of capitulation.

Fair enough...

Just like any good inside trader, you should not disclose to us about the exact end of your capitulation until you have well-established your BTC stash.   Wink  just saying.

Bleh, my stash count won't change much just by my fresh fiat. That's probably what makes me refrain for buying right now. At this point it would be easier to increase my stash by trading than by my available fiat. Unless I went full retarded and bet it all I have... which I won't.

Being a very little fish in this pool I see absolutely no problem telling my actions.

Hey.. bitserve, ... a few posts back Searing confessed to an amount of BTC sales and the amount that he has so far been able to purchase back (presumably at a bit lower prices than the sales price).

I can relate to his situation, but I don't want to provide that many specifics about things that can happen to cause a person to sell more BTC than preferred. 

I do believe that it is less of a BIG deal for HODLers like Searing and perhaps others in similar circumstances to be forced to sell part of his/her BTC stash when their BTC stash is in decent profits.  It would be much less desirable for someone to sell portions of his/her BTC stash if the BTC stash is not in profits.... which would be a sign of having had over-invested at too high of a price

Currently, I have re-established decently strong BTC buy back points at several places between here and $2k.. including several additional buy back points that I have recently re-established in the supra $3k price arena. 

If I don't buy back (because the BTC does not reach those buy orders), then that is o.k... too...   Like many BTC HODLers/accumulators in this thread, I feel that I have stacked a decent quantity of BTC to feel a preference for going UP.

Also, when the BTC price does begin to go up (that is if it does), then frequently a lot of us will be posting our regrets that we did not buy a bit more at $3,xxx or whatever other number that we failed to execute our buying of BTC.  On the other hand, the reality of the matter is that with our total cashflow and cash availability, it might be foolish to buy exactly at these prices and even at any supra-$3k price because we might not have enough fiat, in reserves, to justify such a purchase... and still be insured for sub-$3k, if it were to happen in the coming months.
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February 20, 2019, 04:40:38 AM
Merited by bones261 (2), Paashaas (1), 600watt (1)

A busy day of bag filling or maybe re-filling depending on your perspective continues as bitcoin consolidates in the $3.9k range before another likely attempt at $4k+. If further gains are to be had I think we would see a completion of this C&H structure even though it might end up looking more like a frying pan. #dyor and #btd

1h


D

#stronghands'19
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